Mike Rutherford in Saturday's Telegraph

Terry Duckmanton said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

After reading this article I was left with a feeling of hopelessness.
The future for cyclists in particular and the planet in general looks
pretty bleak in the face of so much voting power in the hands of the
opposition.

The second paragraph reads...

"As we proved a few days ago, drivers have the clout to remove arrogant,
viciously anti-car councillors, mayors and other political activists
from office. All we now ask of their replacements is that we should no
longer be deemed public enemy number one. What's more, a better, safer,
fairer deal for drivers and their passenger is long overdue and must be
delivered. Or else… The frequently overlooked fact is that the vast
majority of people in Britain - more than 30million of us - hold driving
licences in one hand and voting cards in the other. Add to that colossal
group of a further 10million or so adults who can't, don't or are too
unfit/skint/old to drive but keenly occupy a passenger seat in a family
or volunteer vehicle, and it becomes apparent that the UK has more than
40million car users of voting age."

OK, so this was published in the 'Motoring' supplement, so one would
expect a pro motoring bias. I just can't believe that motoring
journalists are unaware that we cannot go on the way we are. Surely they
should be looking for ways to change the way we the public regard
private transport.

I think when you look at the statistics the voters are very much in
favour of traffic calming measures. I believe it is these pressures that
cause councillors to support such measures.

The motor lobby is very keen to impress on politicians how powerful they
are and to be fair they do seem to have disproportionate access to the
media but in the overall game I think they are losing.

Quoted message said:

Terry.

Nick said:

Terry Duckmanton said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

After reading this article I was left with a feeling of hopelessness.
The future for cyclists in particular and the planet in general looks
pretty bleak in the face of so much voting power in the hands of the
opposition.

The second paragraph reads...

"As we proved a few days ago, drivers have the clout to remove
arrogant, viciously anti-car councillors, mayors and other political
activists from office. All we now ask of their replacements is that we
should no longer be deemed public enemy number one. What's more, a
better, safer, fairer deal for drivers and their passenger is long
overdue and must be delivered. Or else… The frequently overlooked fact
is that the vast majority of people in Britain - more than 30million
of us - hold driving licences in one hand and voting cards in the
other. Add to that colossal group of a further 10million or so adults
who can't, don't or are too unfit/skint/old to drive but keenly occupy
a passenger seat in a family or volunteer vehicle, and it becomes
apparent that the UK has more than 40million car users of voting age."

OK, so this was published in the 'Motoring' supplement, so one would
expect a pro motoring bias. I just can't believe that motoring
journalists are unaware that we cannot go on the way we are. Surely
they should be looking for ways to change the way we the public regard
private transport.

I think when you look at the statistics the voters are very much in
favour of traffic calming measures. I believe it is these pressures that
cause councillors to support such measures.

The motor lobby is very keen to impress on politicians how powerful they
are and to be fair they do seem to have disproportionate access to the
media but in the overall game I think they are losing.

Quoted message said:

Terry.

I agree - they are even becoming a little 'naff' (lovely word!) and feel
rather old fashioned.

Graham

Terry Duckmanton said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

Quoted message said:

After reading this article I was left with a feeling of hopelessness.
The future for cyclists in particular and the planet in general looks
pretty bleak in the face of so much voting power in the hands of the
opposition.

Do you mean "the opposition", or "the majority"?

Quoted message said:

"The frequently overlooked fact
is that the vast majority of people in Britain - more than 30million
of us - hold driving licences in one hand and voting cards in the
other."

Well according to http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=6, the
UK population in mid-2006 was 60.6 million, so I'm not sure why he thinks
"more than 30 million" is a vast majority.

Terry Duckmanton said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

After reading this article I was left with a feeling of hopelessness.
The future for cyclists in particular and the planet in general looks
pretty bleak in the face of so much voting power in the hands of the
opposition.

The second paragraph reads...

"As we proved a few days ago, drivers have the clout to remove arrogant,
viciously anti-car councillors, mayors and other political activists
from office. All we now ask of their replacements is that we should no
longer be deemed public enemy number one. What's more, a better, safer,
fairer deal for drivers and their passenger is long overdue and must be
delivered. Or else… The frequently overlooked fact is that the vast
majority of people in Britain - more than 30million of us - hold driving
licences in one hand and voting cards in the other. Add to that colossal
group of a further 10million or so adults who can't, don't or are too
unfit/skint/old to drive but keenly occupy a passenger seat in a family
or volunteer vehicle, and it becomes apparent that the UK has more than
40million car users of voting age."

OK, so this was published in the 'Motoring' supplement, so one would
expect a pro motoring bias. I just can't believe that motoring
journalists are unaware that we cannot go on the way we are. Surely they
should be looking for ways to change the way we the public regard
private transport.

Take comfort from the fact that both Boris Johnson and David Cameron
are keen cyclists.

Kenneth MacKenzie said:

Quoted message said:

"The frequently overlooked fact
is that the vast majority of people in Britain - more than 30million
of us - hold driving licences in one hand and voting cards in the
other."

Well according to http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=6, the
UK population in mid-2006 was 60.6 million, so I'm not sure why he thinks
"more than 30 million" is a vast majority.

Some of the 60 million are children who neither drive nor vote. Yes I
know that's not what he said but obviously what he meant.

Interesting graph. It would seem the grim reaper claims about 15% of his
total take on people's 61st birthdays.

Kenneth MacKenzie said:

Quoted message said:

"The frequently overlooked fact
is that the vast majority of people in Britain - more than 30million
of us - hold driving licences in one hand and voting cards in the
other."

Well according to http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=6, the
UK population in mid-2006 was 60.6 million, so I'm not sure why he thinks
"more than 30 million" is a vast majority.

I think he is only considering the adult population, as he said we
hold voting cards. The site above says that in 2006 approx 1 in 5 were
under 16, 1.5 million were 16 or 17, so that leaves about 46.5
million, therefore 30 million is a sizeable majority.

Kenneth MacKenzie said:

Quoted message said:

"The frequently overlooked fact
is that the vast majority of people in Britain - more than 30million
of us - hold driving licences in one hand and voting cards in the
other."

Quoted message said:

Well according to http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=6, the
UK population in mid-2006 was 60.6 million, so I'm not sure why he thinks
"more than 30 million" is a vast majority.

How many of the "60.6 million" are adults (well, at least over just 17,
YKWIM)?

How many of those are too infirm, aged or poor to make the holding of a
driving licence a reality?

It'd be astounding if the majority of the eligible age-range did not
have driving licences (and the figures - "more than 30 million of us" -
indicate that they do).

On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:10:33 +0100

Terry Duckmanton said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

After reading this article I was left with a feeling of hopelessness.
The future for cyclists in particular and the planet in general looks
pretty bleak in the face of so much voting power in the hands of the
opposition.

Whose hands?

That's some journo invoking the traditional model of democracy:
three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

But he omits the fact that most of those 30 million do NOT
subscribe to the motoring lobby agenda. As evidenced
anecdotally by "people we know", and statistically by
the complete failure of the "dump the pump" campaign,
*in spite of* millions-worth of media support from
newspapers and the likes of the BBC.

(remember, they abandoned "dump the pump" after two weeks,
and dropped the idea of a campaign involving the silent
majority of those 30 million. The blockades, some months
later, were a tiny band of thugs.)

--
not me guv

Terry Duckmanton wrote:

After reading this article I was left with a feeling of hopelessness.
The future for cyclists in particular and the planet in general looks
pretty bleak in the face of so much voting power in the hands of the
opposition.

To which JNugent replied:

Do you mean "the opposition", or "the majority"?
------------------------------------------------

As a regular commuting cyclist I tend to regard motorists as "The
Opposition". I realise that "The Majority" is a much more accurate
description, but I feel that many who choose to use motor vehicles for
their daily commute do so without considering that life changing
alternatives may exist. For many motorists the problem of
".....being hammered by ever-rising fuel taxes, car taxes, congestion
taxes, taxes to use bridges and tunnels that are already paid for,
parking taxes, insurance taxes and so-called green taxes."
is relatively easily avoided by either walking or cycling to work. In
spite of this they continue to use their car and complain about the fact
that the roads are congested and they are being charged a fortune to use
them.

Until someone can explain to this unthinking majority that the
congestion problem is one of their own making, motorists will continue
to regard cyclists as a nuisance and vice versa.

Terry

On 10 May, 11:10, Terry Duckmanton <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

The second paragraph reads...

"As we proved a few days ago, drivers have the clout to remove arrogant,
viciously anti-car councillors, mayors and other political activists
from office. All we now ask of their replacements is that we should no
longer be deemed public enemy number one. What's more, a better, safer,
fairer deal for drivers and their passenger is long overdue and must be
delivered. Or else… The frequently overlooked fact is that the vast
majority of people in Britain - more than 30million of us - hold driving
licences in one hand and voting cards in the other. Add to that colossal
group of a further 10million or so adults who can't, don't or are too
unfit/skint/old to drive but keenly occupy a passenger seat in a family
or volunteer vehicle, and it becomes apparent that the UK has more than
40million car users of voting age."

I agree with every word and salute the author

Quoted message said:

OK, so this was published in the 'Motoring' supplement, so one would
expect a pro motoring bias. I just can't believe that motoring
journalists are unaware that we cannot go on the way we are. Surely they
should be looking for ways to change the way we the public regard
private transport.

Terry.

Are you some sort of communist? Of course we can go on the way we are,
any problems will be fixed by advances in technology.
No one is stopping you riding your bike and no one is going to force
me to give up my cars or my bike or force me onto a bus.

"Terry Duckmanton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

After reading this article I was left with a feeling of hopelessness. The
future for cyclists in particular and the planet in general looks pretty
bleak in the face of so much voting power in the hands of the opposition.

The second paragraph reads...

"As we proved a few days ago, drivers have the clout to remove arrogant,
viciously anti-car councillors, mayors and other political activists from
office. All we now ask of their replacements is that we should no longer
be deemed public enemy number one. What's more, a better, safer, fairer
deal for drivers and their passenger is long overdue and must be
delivered. Or else… The frequently overlooked fact is that the vast
majority of people in Britain - more than 30million of us - hold driving
licences in one hand and voting cards in the other. Add to that colossal
group of a further 10million or so adults who can't, don't or are too
unfit/skint/old to drive but keenly occupy a passenger seat in a family or
volunteer vehicle, and it becomes apparent that the UK has more than
40million car users of voting age."

OK, so this was published in the 'Motoring' supplement, so one would
expect a pro motoring bias. I just can't believe that motoring journalists
are unaware that we cannot go on the way we are. Surely they should be
looking for ways to change the way we the public regard private transport.

Terry.

What page is it on - it doesn't seem to be in my Scottish edition?

Tom Crispin said:

Terry Duckmanton said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

After reading this article I was left with a feeling of hopelessness.
The future for cyclists in particular and the planet in general looks
pretty bleak in the face of so much voting power in the hands of the
opposition.

The second paragraph reads...

"As we proved a few days ago, drivers have the clout to remove arrogant,
viciously anti-car councillors, mayors and other political activists
from office. All we now ask of their replacements is that we should no
longer be deemed public enemy number one. What's more, a better, safer,
fairer deal for drivers and their passenger is long overdue and must be
delivered. Or else∑ The frequently overlooked fact is that the vast
majority of people in Britain - more than 30million of us - hold driving
licences in one hand and voting cards in the other. Add to that colossal
group of a further 10million or so adults who can't, don't or are too
unfit/skint/old to drive but keenly occupy a passenger seat in a family
or volunteer vehicle, and it becomes apparent that the UK has more than
40million car users of voting age."

OK, so this was published in the 'Motoring' supplement, so one would
expect a pro motoring bias. I just can't believe that motoring
journalists are unaware that we cannot go on the way we are. Surely they
should be looking for ways to change the way we the public regard
private transport.

Take comfort from the fact that both Boris Johnson and David Cameron
are keen cyclists.

quite, and the said artical is a rant, which as rants often tend to only
a passing reasemblence to realility.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Terry Duckmanton
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

As a regular commuting cyclist I tend to regard motorists as "The
Opposition". I realise that "The Majority" is a much more accurate
description, but I feel that many who choose to use motor vehicles for
their daily commute do so without considering that life changing
alternatives may exist. For many motorists the problem of
".....being hammered by ever-rising fuel taxes, car taxes, congestion
taxes, taxes to use bridges and tunnels that are already paid for,
parking taxes, insurance taxes and so-called green taxes."
is relatively easily avoided by either walking or cycling to work. In
spite of this they continue to use their car and complain about the fact
that the roads are congested and they are being charged a fortune to use
them.

Until someone can explain to this unthinking majority that the
congestion problem is one of their own making, motorists will continue
to regard cyclists as a nuisance and vice versa.

Given the apparent lack of impact of 'green' propaganda, the current
approach of financial penalties and useage restrictions seems to be the
only way that the message is going to get across - strident whinging
from the 'victims' suggests that it's starting to work.

Terry Duckmanton said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

The second paragraph reads...

"As we proved a few days ago, drivers have the clout to remove

arrogant,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

viciously anti-car councillors, mayors and other political activists
from office. All we now ask of their replacements is that we should no
longer be deemed public enemy number one. What's more, a better, safer,
fairer deal for drivers and their passenger is long overdue and must be
delivered. Or else… The frequently overlooked fact is that the vast
majority of people in Britain - more than 30million of us - hold

driving

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

licences in one hand and voting cards in the other. Add to that

colossal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

group of a further 10million or so adults who can't, don't or are too
unfit/skint/old to drive but keenly occupy a passenger seat in a family
or volunteer vehicle, and it becomes apparent that the UK has more than
40million car users of voting age."

I agree with every word and salute the author

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OK, so this was published in the 'Motoring' supplement, so one would
expect a pro motoring bias. I just can't believe that motoring
journalists are unaware that we cannot go on the way we are. Surely

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should be looking for ways to change the way we the public regard
private transport.

Terry.

In reply Sir Jeremy said:

Are you some sort of communist? Of course we can go on the way we are,
any problems will be fixed by advances in technology.
No one is stopping you riding your bike and no one is going to force
me to give up my cars or my bike or force me onto a bus.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Communist? Not me. I am not trying to force anyone out of their cars or
on to buses and trains and I wouldn't dream of telling people they
_must_ ride bicycles. What I would like to see, particularly from people
in the media, is an acceptance of the fact that none of us have a
_right_ to drive a motor car and that the shape and technology of
private transport must change. The idea that every member of the working
population has the right to use a ton and a half of fossil fuelled steel
to transport just one person to and from their workplace is
unsustainable. The fact that many authorities are trying to dissuade
people from doing so shows that I am not alone in thinking this way.

It is perhaps unfortunate that the most popular method of dissuading
people is to use a hefty financial stick (e.g. congestion charge) which
is then perceived as an unfair tax burden.

Being a cyclist himself it is just possible that Boris might be able to
lead by example and perhaps start a natural trend.

Terry

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Terry Duckmanton
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

As a regular commuting cyclist I tend to regard motorists as "The
Opposition". I realise that "The Majority" is a much more accurate
description, but I feel that many who choose to use motor vehicles for
their daily commute do so without considering that life changing
alternatives may exist. For many motorists the problem of
".....being hammered by ever-rising fuel taxes, car taxes, congestion
taxes, taxes to use bridges and tunnels that are already paid for,
parking taxes, insurance taxes and so-called green taxes."
is relatively easily avoided by either walking or cycling to work. In
spite of this they continue to use their car and complain about the fact
that the roads are congested and they are being charged a fortune to use
them.

Until someone can explain to this unthinking majority that the
congestion problem is one of their own making, motorists will continue
to regard cyclists as a nuisance and vice versa.

Given the apparent lack of impact of 'green' propaganda, the current
approach of financial penalties and useage restrictions seems to be the
only way that the message is going to get across - strident whinging
from the 'victims' suggests that it's starting to work.

People whinge but there's no real reduction in the amount of traffic
(and it's still usually cheaper to drive than take the train, even on
the rare occasions that there actually is a train).

For fuel taxes to have any impact on traffic levels they'd have to go up
by at least 10 times, and then you'd just be pricing poorer people off
the road, and how is that fair?

It's just tax. People have always whinged about tax, and quite rightly
so.

You get away with taxing things more if you can somehow tar them as
morally wrong, viz cigarettes. Environmentalism is just being used as a
excuse to try to put motoring into that category.

Geoff Pearson said:

"Terry Duckmanton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

<<Some stuff snipped here>>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Terry.

What page is it on - it doesn't seem to be in my Scottish edition?

It appeared in the 'Motoring' supplement. Down here we get a whole pile
of separate bits and pieces, one of which is called 'Motoring'.

If you don't get this bit in your edition, the link above should take
you to the online version which contains all of the original article.

Terry

"Terry Duckmanton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"Terry Duckmanton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9

<<Some stuff snipped here>>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Terry.

What page is it on - it doesn't seem to be in my Scottish edition?

It appeared in the 'Motoring' supplement. Down here we get a whole pile of
separate bits and pieces, one of which is called 'Motoring'.

If you don't get this bit in your edition, the link above should take you
to the online version which contains all of the original article.

Terry

Thanks - we get bits too - including one called Motoring. Not found the
article yet though. To be fair, the Telegraph is not widely read in this
country.

Geoff Pearson said:

"Terry Duckmanton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"Terry Duckmanton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> http://tinyurl.com/4l9zb9
>

<<Some stuff snipped here>>

Quoted message said:

> Terry.
What page is it on - it doesn't seem to be in my Scottish edition?

It appeared in the 'Motoring' supplement. Down here we get a whole pile of
separate bits and pieces, one of which is called 'Motoring'.

If you don't get this bit in your edition, the link above should take you
to the online version which contains all of the original article.

Terry

Thanks - we get bits too - including one called Motoring. Not found the
article yet though. To be fair, the Telegraph is not widely read in this
country.

"MR MONEY" on page M2.