Mike is Still Here?

I tell you, since I put him in my blocked users list i no longer need to go to Anger Management
Therapy :-)

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:52:08 GMT, "Tim Bondy" <[email hidden]> wrote:

|Been viewing this NG for 4 years or so. I just visit from time to time to |see if that crazy guy is
still posting his Nazi theories on MBing. Guess |he's still lurking and posting. Quite a guy but way
too annoying to deal |with. Bye for another 6 months. Mike V is a kill joy but about as |important
to the world as a pimple on my butt.

Hence your idiotic post...

P e t e F a g e r l i n said:

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:52:08 GMT, "Tim Bondy" <[email hidden]> wrote:

|Been viewing this NG for 4 years or so. I just visit from time to time |to see if that crazy guy
is still posting his Nazi theories on MBing. |Guess he's still lurking and posting. Quite a guy
but way too annoying |to deal with. Bye for another 6 months. Mike V is a kill joy but |about as
important to the world as a pimple on my butt.

Hence your idiotic post...

Exactly. If Mike V is so annoying then why do people insist of posting stuff about him. By writing
this I am contributing to that. Move along now, nothing to see here.

--
Matt

Fear of a flat planet

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:24:45 +0000, Matthew Paterson <[email hidden]> wrote:

.On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:35:41 +0000, P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote: . .> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003
01:52:08 GMT, "Tim Bondy" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> |Been viewing this NG for 4 years or so. I
just visit from time to time .> |to see if that crazy guy is still posting his Nazi theories on
MBing. .> |Guess he's still lurking and posting. Quite a guy but way too annoying .> |to deal with.
Bye for another 6 months. Mike V is a kill joy but .> |about as important to the world as a pimple
on my butt. .> .> Hence your idiotic post...
. .Exactly. If Mike V is so annoying then why do people insist of posting .stuff about him. By
writing this I am contributing to that. Move along .now, nothing to see here.

It only proves that mountain bikers have no life. Even when I'm not here, you guys can't help
talking about me! Even P e t e "Better Than Everyone Else" F a g e r l i n.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Wow. I just came here to look for info on a particular mountain bike, and stumbled upon this mess.

As an admitted "ranter" about different topics (endless road construction and Off-road vehicles included -- don't get me started on GWBush), I still found these strings completely over-the-top. First of all, angry discussions like these do nothing but polarize people, and you're not going to change anyone's mind by insulting them. Secondly, there's nothing as pointless (and uneducated) as generalizing about a group of individuals. You certainly can't group me, or any of my riding friends, into the class that MV has put mountain-bikers. However, I have seen people, that happen to mountain bike, be inconsiderate to other trail user's, and to the wilderness environment. And, as a mountain biker, I am the first one to attempt to educate these people, in a calm, rational manner.

The fact of the matter is, that because we live in the USA (I'll be moving to Canada if GW is elected again), we have been given priveleges that include using our natural resources within the boundaries of our local statutes. Everyone has the right to use our public lands to their enjoyment, and land should be set aside for specific uses (even by horses, and cryptobiotics).

But if that doesn't continue, hopefully a group of incestous, inbred Texas off-roaders (or snowmobilers), runs over MV while he's got his shrivelled-up penis up some mule deer with wasting disease -- the result leading to a total ban on anyone, in any forest, that's not on two wheels, powered by the lower extremeties of a [censored] sapien sapien.

pn (Master of Science, Environmental Engineering)

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Mike Vandeman
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:24:45 +0000, Matthew Paterson <[email hidden]> wrote:

.On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:35:41 +0000, P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote: . .> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003
01:52:08 GMT, "Tim Bondy" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> |Been viewing this NG for 4 years or so. I
just visit from time to time .> |to see if that crazy guy is still posting his Nazi theories on
MBing. .> |Guess he's still lurking and posting. Quite a guy but way too annoying .> |to deal with.
Bye for another 6 months. Mike V is a kill joy but .> |about as important to the world as a pimple
on my butt. .> .> Hence your idiotic post...
. .Exactly. If Mike V is so annoying then why do people insist of posting .stuff about him. By
writing this I am contributing to that. Move along .now, nothing to see here.

It only proves that mountain bikers have no life. Even when I'm not here, you guys can't help
talking about me! Even P e t e "Better Than Everyone Else" F a g e r l i n.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

😄 😄 😄 😄 😄

On 9 Aug 2003 15:03:15 +0950, trailrunner1 <[email hidden]> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote:
. > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:24:45 +0000, Matthew Paterson
. > <[email hidden]> wrote:
. > .On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:35:41 +0000, P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote: . .>
. > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003
. > 01:52:08 GMT, "Tim Bondy" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> |Been viewing
. > this NG for 4 years or so. I just visit from time to time .> |to
. > see if that crazy guy is still posting his Nazi theories on MBing.
. > .> |Guess he's still lurking and posting. Quite a guy but way too
. > annoying .> |to deal with. Bye for another 6 months. Mike V is a
. > kill joy but .> |about as important to the world as a pimple on my
. > butt. .> .> Hence your idiotic post...
. > . .Exactly. If Mike V is so annoying then why do people insist of
. > posting .stuff about him. By writing this I am contributing to that.
. > Move along .now, nothing to see here.
. > It only proves that mountain bikers have no life. Even when I'm not
. > here, you guys can't help talking about me! Even P e t e "Better Than
. > Everyone Else" F a g e r l i n.
. > ===
. > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans
. > ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting
. > auto dependence and road construction.)
. > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande" rel="ugc nofollow noopener">home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ . .Wow. I just came here to
look for info on a particular mountain bike, .and stumbled upon this mess. . .As an admitted
"ranter" about different topics (endless road .construction and Off-road vehicles included --
don't get me started on .GWBush), I still found these strings completely over-the-top. First of
.all, angry discussions like these do nothing but polarize people, and .you're not going to
change anyone's mind by insulting them. Secondly, .there's nothing as pointless (and uneducated)
as generalizing about a .group of individuals. You certainly can't group me, or any of my riding
.friends, into the class that MV has put mountain-bikers. However, I have .seen people, that
happen to mountain bike, be inconsiderate to other .trail user's, and to the wilderness
environment. And, as a mountain .biker, I am the first one to attempt to educate these people,
in a calm, .rational manner.

With ZERO results, obviously! Mountain bikers don't listen to ANYONE, even each other! (It's okay to
generalize; it's called SCIENCE.)

.The fact of the matter is, that because we live in the USA (I'll be .moving to Canada if GW is
elected again), we have been given priveleges .that include using our natural resources within the
boundaries of our .local statutes. Everyone has the right to use our public lands to their
.enjoyment, and land should be set aside for specific uses (even by .horses, and cryptobiotics).

BS. It is up to the people to decide how public lands are used, or IF they will be used. The public
has usually decided that mountain biking doesn't belong on public lands. Witness Yosemite National
Park, where it's forbidden.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On 9 Aug 2003 15:03:15 +0950, trailrunner1 <[email hidden]> wrote:

.Path: newssvr25.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm01!newsdbm01.news.prodigy.com!newscon07.news.prodigy.com!n-
ewsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!rip!c03.atl99!news.webusenet.com!news02.tsnz.net!newsfeed01.t-
snz.net!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!ken-transit.news.telstra.net!lon-transit.ne-
ws.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!lon-spool.news.telstra.net!203.50.2.94.MISMATCH!reader.news.telstra-
.net!not-for-mail .Subject: Re: Mike is Still Here? .From: trailrunner1
<[email hidden]> .Sender: trailrunner1 .Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike .User-Agent:
[email hidden] .References: <[email hidden]>
.Organization: [email hidden] .X-Newsreader: [email hidden]
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.X-Trace: 1060407193 lon-reader.news.telstra.net 95045 203.87.95.150 .Xref:
newsmst01.news.prodigy.com alt.mountain-bike:398906 . .Mike Vandeman wrote:
. > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:24:45 +0000, Matthew Paterson
. > <[email hidden]> wrote:
. > .On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:35:41 +0000, P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote: . .>
. > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003
. > 01:52:08 GMT, "Tim Bondy" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> |Been viewing
. > this NG for 4 years or so. I just visit from time to time .> |to
. > see if that crazy guy is still posting his Nazi theories on MBing.
. > .> |Guess he's still lurking and posting. Quite a guy but way too
. > annoying .> |to deal with. Bye for another 6 months. Mike V is a
. > kill joy but .> |about as important to the world as a pimple on my
. > butt. .> .> Hence your idiotic post...
. > . .Exactly. If Mike V is so annoying then why do people insist of
. > posting .stuff about him. By writing this I am contributing to that.
. > Move along .now, nothing to see here.
. > It only proves that mountain bikers have no life. Even when I'm not
. > here, you guys can't help talking about me! Even P e t e "Better Than
. > Everyone Else" F a g e r l i n.
. > ===
. > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans
. > ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting
. > auto dependence and road construction.)
. > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande" rel="ugc nofollow noopener">home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ . .Wow. I just came here to look
for info on a particular mountain bike, .and stumbled upon this mess. . .As an admitted "ranter"
about different topics (endless road .construction and Off-road vehicles included -- don't get me
started on .GWBush), I still found these strings completely over-the-top. First of .all, angry
discussions like these do nothing but polarize people, and .you're not going to change anyone's
mind by insulting them. Secondly, .there's nothing as pointless (and uneducated) as generalizing
about a .group of individuals. You certainly can't group me, or any of my riding .friends, into
the class that MV has put mountain-bikers. However, I have .seen people, that happen to mountain
bike, be inconsiderate to other .trail user's, and to the wilderness environment. And, as a
mountain .biker, I am the first one to attempt to educate these people, in a calm, .rational
manner. . .The fact of the matter is, that because we live in the USA (I'll be .moving to Canada
if GW is elected again), we have been given priveleges .that include using our natural resources
within the boundaries of our .local statutes. Everyone has the right to use our public lands to
their .enjoyment, and land should be set aside for specific uses (even by .horses, and
cryptobiotics). . .But if that doesn't continue, hopefully a group of incestous, inbred .Texas
off-roaders (or snowmobilers), runs over MV

Your threat is duly noted.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Mike Vandeman
On 9 Aug 2003 15:03:15 +0950, trailrunner1 <[email hidden]> wrote:

.Path: newssvr25.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm01!newsdbm01.news.prodigy.com!newscon07.news.prodigy.com!n-
ewsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!rip!c03.atl99!news.webusenet.com!news02.tsnz.net!newsfeed01.t-
snz.net!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!ken-transit.news.telstra.net!lon-transit.ne-
ws.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!lon-spool.news.telstra.net!203.50.2.94.MISMATCH!reader.news.telstra-
.net!not-for-mail .Subject: Re: Mike is Still Here? .From: trailrunner1
<[email hidden]> .Sender: trailrunner1 .Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike .User-Agent:
[email hidden] .References: <[email hidden]>
.Organization: [email hidden] .X-Newsreader: [email hidden]
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15:03:15 +0950 .X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 .Lines: 67 .NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.95.150
.X-Trace: 1060407193 lon-reader.news.telstra.net 95045 203.87.95.150 .Xref:
newsmst01.news.prodigy.com alt.mountain-bike:398906 . .Mike Vandeman wrote:
. > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:24:45 +0000, Matthew Paterson
. > <[email hidden]> wrote:
. > .On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:35:41 +0000, P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote: . .>
. > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003
. > 01:52:08 GMT, "Tim Bondy" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> |Been viewing
. > this NG for 4 years or so. I just visit from time to time .> |to
. > see if that crazy guy is still posting his Nazi theories on MBing.
. > .> |Guess he's still lurking and posting. Quite a guy but way too
. > annoying .> |to deal with. Bye for another 6 months. Mike V is a
. > kill joy but .> |about as important to the world as a pimple on my
. > butt. .> .> Hence your idiotic post...
. > . .Exactly. If Mike V is so annoying then why do people insist of
. > posting .stuff about him. By writing this I am contributing to that.
. > Move along .now, nothing to see here.
. > It only proves that mountain bikers have no life. Even when I'm not
. > here, you guys can't help talking about me! Even P e t e "Better Than
. > Everyone Else" F a g e r l i n.
. > ===
. > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans
. > ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting
. > auto dependence and road construction.)
. > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande" rel="ugc nofollow noopener">home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ . .Wow. I just came here to look
for info on a particular mountain bike, .and stumbled upon this mess. . .As an admitted "ranter"
about different topics (endless road .construction and Off-road vehicles included -- don't get me
started on .GWBush), I still found these strings completely over-the-top. First of .all, angry
discussions like these do nothing but polarize people, and .you're not going to change anyone's
mind by insulting them. Secondly, .there's nothing as pointless (and uneducated) as generalizing
about a .group of individuals. You certainly can't group me, or any of my riding .friends, into
the class that MV has put mountain-bikers. However, I have .seen people, that happen to mountain
bike, be inconsiderate to other .trail user's, and to the wilderness environment. And, as a
mountain .biker, I am the first one to attempt to educate these people, in a calm, .rational
manner. . .The fact of the matter is, that because we live in the USA (I'll be .moving to Canada
if GW is elected again), we have been given priveleges .that include using our natural resources
within the boundaries of our .local statutes. Everyone has the right to use our public lands to
their .enjoyment, and land should be set aside for specific uses (even by .horses, and
cryptobiotics). . .But if that doesn't continue, hopefully a group of incestous, inbred .Texas
off-roaders (or snowmobilers), runs over MV

Your threat is duly noted.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

AS A scientist, I see narrow-minded individuals like yourself everyday within my field. Typically, they are angry, bitter people that have irrational obsessions on any number of subjects. While they may be intelligent, they are unable to grasp "the big picture", and often underestimate (or fail to include) key influences on a subject they are attempting to study. Additionally, they have no sense of humor, they are boring and one-dimensional, and are little liked by their peers.

... however, that's not the point of this reply. I'd like to clarify my point, and refute your statements, in SMALL words, sans humor and sarcasm so that you and other small-minded people can understand.

1. Here, in America, there should be public lands set aside for lawful (determined by the people) outdoor activities of all kinds. YES, even for those that choose to ride motorcycles and ATVs through the woods (even though I don't like them). HOWEVER, these lands should be chosen to minimize impact to threatened/endangered species -- ADDITIONALLY, in this case, non-motorized users should be advised that they will encounter these vehicles and to understand that this land is intended for this use. IN this same way, land should be set aside for non-motorized use (read, mountain bikes, and peds). AND there should be land set aside for pedestrians only. AND, maybe land set aside that off-limits to humans -- Not sure about this, or how it would work -- would you be the only one allowed there to police this? (But, you calling this "pure-habitat" is bunk, humans are part of the ecosystem)

2. National Parks and Wilderness areas should remain mountain bike free. But, as anyone knows who has visited Yosemite, Rocky Mountain, or Yellowstone, the real issue is the automobiles that create traffic jams, noise, and smog (and in Yellowstone, the permission of snowmobiles -- Mike why don't you tackle that instead?)

3. There was, absolutely, in no manner, a threat in my last post. (Go back to my first paragraph on "no sense of humor" and not understanding underlying messages).

4. SCIENCE is not generalizing, it is "i. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena. ii. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. iii. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations. iv. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments."

(Obviously you are not a scientist)

So, are you absolutely sure of you're idea of a "human free" habitat? I assume you're goal is to completely remove any human pressure from a particular area? Amazing, by saying this, you are admitting that peds create pressure. WHO ARE YOU to say what is acceptable pressure? Just because you don't enjoy mountain-biking?

pn (MS Environmental Engineering, BA Zoology)

Quoted message said:

.But if that doesn't continue, hopefully a group of incestous, inbred .Texas off-roaders (or
snowmobilers), runs over MV

Your threat is duly noted.

This isn't a threat, you moron. It is a prayer -- notice the word "hopefully". He hopes a group of
... will take care of you, he doesn't propose it.

On 11 Aug 2003 03:23:11 +0950, trailrunner1 <[email hidden]> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote:
. > On 9 Aug 2003 15:03:15 +0950, trailrunner1
. > <[email hidden]> wrote:
. > .Path: newssvr25.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm01!newsdbm01.news.prodigy.com!-
. > newscon07.news.prodigy.com!n- ewsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!rip-
. > !c03.atl99!news.webusenet.com!news02.tsnz.net!newsfeed01.t- snz.net!new-
. > s.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!ken-transit.news.telstra.n-
. > et!lon-transit.ne- ws.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!lon-spool.news.telst-
. > ra.net!203.50.2.94.MISMATCH!reader.news.telstra- .net!not-for-mail
. > .Subject: Re: Mike is Still Here? .From: trailrunner1
. > <[email hidden]> .Sender: trailrunner1 .Newsgroups:
. > alt.mountain-bike .User-Agent: [email hidden]
. > .References: <[email hidden]>
. > .Organization: [email hidden] .X-Newsreader:
. > [email hidden] .X-References: 34630|239928 .Message-ID:
. > <[email hidden]> .Date: 9 Aug 2003
. > 15:03:15 +0950 .X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 .Lines: 67
. > .NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.95.150 .X-Trace: 1060407193
. > lon-reader.news.telstra.net 95045 203.87.95.150 .Xref:
. > newsmst01.news.prodigy.com alt.mountain-bike:398906 . .Mike
. > Vandeman wrote:
. > . > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:24:45 +0000, Matthew Paterson
. > . > <[email hidden]> wrote:
. > . > .On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:35:41 +0000, P e t e F a g e r l i n
. > wrote: . .>
. > . > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003
. > . > 01:52:08 GMT, "Tim Bondy" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .>
. > |Been viewing
. > . > this NG for 4 years or so. I just visit from time to time .> |to
. > . > see if that crazy guy is still posting his Nazi theories on MBing.
. > . > .> |Guess he's still lurking and posting. Quite a guy but way too
. > . > annoying .> |to deal with. Bye for another 6 months. Mike V is a
. > . > kill joy but .> |about as important to the world as a pimple on my
. > . > butt. .> .> Hence your idiotic post...
. > . > . .Exactly. If Mike V is so annoying then why do people insist of
. > . > posting .stuff about him. By writing this I am contributing to
. > that.
. > . > Move along .now, nothing to see here.
. > . > It only proves that mountain bikers have no life. Even when I'm not
. > . > here, you guys can't help talking about me! Even P e t e
. > "Better Than
. > . > Everyone Else" F a g e r l i n.
. > . > ===
. > . > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
. > humans
. > . > ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
. > years fighting
. > . > auto dependence and road construction.)
. > . > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvandehttp-" rel="ugc nofollow noopener">home.pacbell.netmjvandehttpOpen ↗
. > ://home.pacbell.net/mjvandehttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .Wow. I
. > just came here to look for info on a particular mountain bike, .and
. > stumbled upon this mess. . .As an admitted "ranter" about different
. > topics (endless road .construction and Off-road vehicles included --
. > don't get me started on .GWBush), I still found these strings
. > completely over-the-top. First of .all, angry discussions like these
. > do nothing but polarize people, and .you're not going to change
. > anyone's mind by insulting them. Secondly, .there's nothing as
. > pointless (and uneducated) as generalizing about a .group of
. > individuals.

Yes, there is. It's called "science". DUH.

You certainly can't group me, or any of my riding
. > .friends, into the class that MV has put mountain-bikers. However, I
. > have .seen people, that happen to mountain bike, be inconsiderate to
. > other .trail user's, and to the wilderness environment. And, as a
. > mountain .biker, I am the first one to attempt to educate these
. > people, in a calm, .rational manner. . .The fact of the matter is,
. > that because we live in the USA (I'll be .moving to Canada if GW is
. > elected again), we have been given priveleges .that include using our
. > natural resources within the boundaries of our .local statutes.
. > Everyone has the right to use our public lands to their .enjoyment,
. > and land should be set aside for specific uses (even by .horses, and
. > cryptobiotics). . .But if that doesn't continue, hopefully a group of
. > incestous, inbred .Texas off-roaders (or snowmobilers), runs over MV
. > Your threat is duly noted.
. > ===
. > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans
. > ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting
. > auto dependence and road construction.)
. > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande" rel="ugc nofollow noopener">home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ . . . . .AS A scientist, I see
narrow-minded individuals like yourself everyday .within my field.

That's nice, but it has no relevance here.

Typically, they are angry, bitter people that have .irrational obsessions on any number of
subjects. While they may be .intelligent, they are unable to grasp "the big picture", and often
.underestimate (or fail to include) key influences on a subject they are .attempting to study.
Additionally, they have no sense of humor, they are .boring and one-dimensional, and are little
liked by their peers. . ... however, that's not the point of this reply. I'd like to clarify my
.point, and refute your statements, in SMALL words, sans humor and .sarcasm so that you and other
small-minded people can understand. . .1. Here, in America, there should be public lands set aside
for lawful
. (determined by the people) outdoor activities of all kinds.

BS. Give ONE good reason. All lands were stolen from wildlife, who are the rightful owners. You
claim to be a scientist, but this is pure FIAT, not science.

YES,
. even for those that choose to ride motorcycles and ATVs through the
. woods (even though I don't like them). HOWEVER, these lands should
. be chosen to minimize impact to threatened/endangered species --

Oh, so it's okay to CAUSE endangerment of wildlife not currently endangered! You make no sense
whatsoever.

. ADDITIONALLY, in this case, non-motorized users should be advised
. that they will encounter these vehicles and to understand that this
. land is intended for this use. IN this same way, land should be set
. aside for non-motorized use (read, mountain bikes, and peds). AND
. there should be land set aside for pedestrians only. AND, maybe land
. set aside that off-limits to humans -- Not sure about this, or how
. it would work -- would you be the only one allowed there to police
. this? (But, you calling this "pure-habitat" is bunk, humans are part
. of the ecosystem)

You are only demonstrating your ignorance here. Humans are native to part of Africa, PERIOD.
Everywhere else, we are a recent arrival -- an exotic species, NOT part of the ecosystem. If you are
a part of the ecosystem, tell me what will happen with your body after you die -- will it return to
the ecosystem, or be segregated from it? I'll bet it's the latter.

.2. National Parks and Wilderness areas should remain mountain bike
. free. But, as anyone knows who has visited Yosemite, Rocky Mountain,
. or Yellowstone, the real issue is the automobiles that create
. traffic jams, noise, and smog (and in Yellowstone, the permission of
. snowmobiles -- Mike why don't you tackle that instead?)

I guess you haven't read my web site, have you?

.3. There was, absolutely, in no manner, a threat in my last post. (Go
. back to my first paragraph on "no sense of humor" and not
. understanding underlying messages).

BS.

.4. SCIENCE is not generalizing, it is "i. Observation and description
. of a phenomenon or group of phenomena. ii. Formulation of an
. hypothesis to explain the phenomena. iii. Use of the hypothesis to
. predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict
. quantitatively the results of new observations. iv. Performance of
. experimental tests of the predictions by several independent
. experimenters and properly performed experiments."

Hypotheses ARE generalizations. DUH.

.(Obviously you are not a scientist) . .So, are you absolutely sure of you're idea of a "human free"
habitat? I .assume you're goal is to completely remove any human pressure from a .particular area?
Amazing, by saying this, you are admitting that peds .create pressure. WHO ARE YOU to say what is
acceptable pressure? Just .because you don't enjoy mountain-biking?

I am only reporting the truth. It's up to wildlife to say what is too much, which they do quite
well. Humans just refuse to listen! DUH! Apparently, you weren't listening, or didn't take,
conservation biology....

.pn (MS Environmental Engineering, BA Zoology)

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

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