Methadone=Pain Killer??

In article <[email hidden]>, B.

Lafferty said:

From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt (Lotto-
Domo) has become the first rider to test positive during
the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled
after the second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July
5, and traces of methadone, a pain killer, were found in
his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt
while it waits for a counter-expertise. French police
searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel this morning, and
reportedly left with a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko
Monti, told Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's
no communique about the positive test that he knows about.
However, it's usually up to the race organisation to issue
such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

whitehousedrugpolicy.govwhitehousedrugpolicy.govOpen ↗
methadone/

Yes Methadone is a pain medication. My mother uses it for
pain control of a very old hip injury she has had for most
of her life.

B. Lafferty said:

Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider
to test positive during the Tour de France. The Belgian
climber was controlled after the second stage from
Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of methadone, a
pain killer, were found in his urine.

Quoted message said:

But does it really mask pain? See:

whitehousedrugpolicy.govwhitehousedrugpolicy.govOpen ↗
methadone/

According to m-w.comdictionaryOpen ↗
it is "used especially in the form of its hydrochloride for
the relief of pain".

--

Martin Honnen

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt (Lotto-
Domo) has become the first rider to test positive during
the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled
after the second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July
5, and traces of methadone, a pain killer, were found in
his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt
while it waits for

a

Quoted message said:

counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-
Domo team hotel this morning, and reportedly left with
a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko
Monti, told Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's
no communique about the positive test that he knows about.
However, it's usually up to the race organisation to issue
such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was
used for pain LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What
makes it ideal for withdrawal is that it has a very long
half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all of the short
acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A long half
life means that a stable does can be acheived with one dose
per day at a level that will not cause (or even allow)
euphoria, which is what addicts are chasing. Too bad so many
people in the US only think of addiction when they hear
"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would
otherwise help a lot more people.

Quoted message said:

whitehousedrugpolicy.govwhitehousedrugpolicy.govOpen ↗
methadone/

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MA-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt (Lotto-
Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was
controlled after the second stage from Charleroi to
Namur on July 5, and traces of methadone,

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pain killer, were found in his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt
while it waits

for

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-
Domo team hotel this morning, and reportedly left with
a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury,
Mirko Monti, told Cyclingnews this morning that as yet
there's no communique about the positive test that he
knows about. However, it's usually up to the race
organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and
was used for pain LONG before it was used for withdrawal.
What makes it ideal for withdrawal is that it has a very
long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all of

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A
long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day
at a level that will not cause (or even allow) euphoria,
which is what addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction
when they hear "methadone". It is a superb pain medicine
that would otherwise help a lot more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans during
WWII. So why, given its addictive properties, would a
cyclist use it??

B. Lafferty said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MA-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt (Lotto-
Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was
controlled after the second stage from Charleroi to Namur
on July 5, and traces of methadone,

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pain killer, were found in his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt
while it waits

for

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-
Domo team hotel this morning, and reportedly left with
a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury,
Mirko Monti, told Cyclingnews this morning that as yet
there's no communique about the positive test that he
knows about. However, it's usually up to the race
organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and
was used for pain LONG before it was used for withdrawal.
What makes it ideal for withdrawal is that it has a very
long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all of

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A
long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day
at a level that will not cause (or even allow) euphoria,
which is what addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction
when they hear "methadone". It is a superb pain medicine
that would otherwise help a lot more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans
during WWII. So why, given its addictive properties, would
a cyclist use it??

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications
than non-narcotic analgesics. They can cause
constipation and occasionally nausea, but usually
not the gastric upset of NSAIDS. When you're eating
as much as these guys must, I would imagine that
could be a problem. Also, while any narcotic can be
addictive, the slow elimination rate lessens the
euphoria and rush, so over the short term for the
legitimate user addiction is probably very unlikely.

Steve

Steve

Methadone is an excellent choice for Bicycle racing.
Excellent pain killer. Long acting and a wider band between
pain relief and the feeling high. Heroin is shorter acting
and has a very small band between pain relieve and feeling
high, and would require several stops to shoot-up. Methadone
is also highly addicitive.

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:-
[email hidden]...

>From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt (Lotto-
>Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

>during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was
>controlled after the second stage from Charleroi to
>Namur on July 5, and traces of

methadone,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

>pain killer, were found in his urine.
>
>Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt
>while it waits

for

Quoted message said:

a

>counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-
>Domo team hotel

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.
>
>Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury,
>Mirko Monti, told Cyclingnews this morning that as yet
>there's no communique about the positive test that he
>knows about. However, it's usually up to the race
>organisation to issue such a communique.
>
>
>
>But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and
was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it
ideal for

withdrawal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours)
relative to all of

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A
long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day
at a level that will not cause (or even allow) euphoria,
which is what addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction
when they hear "methadone". It is a superb pain medicine
that would otherwise help a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans
during WWII. So

why,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications than
non-narcotic analgesics. They can cause constipation and
occasionally nausea, but usually not the gastric upset of
NSAIDS. When you're eating as much as these guys must, I
would imagine that could be a problem. Also, while any
narcotic can be addictive, the slow elimination rate
lessens the euphoria and rush, so over the short term for
the legitimate user addiction is probably very unlikely.

Steve

Steve

B. Lafferty said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:M-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt (Lotto-
Domo) has become the first rider to test positive during
the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled
after the second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July
5, and traces of methadone, a pain killer, were found in
his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt
while it waits for a counter-expertise. French police
searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel this morning, and
reportedly left with a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury,
Mirko Monti, told Cyclingnews this morning that as yet
there's no communique about the positive test that he
knows about. However, it's usually up to the race
organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and
was used for pain LONG before it was used for withdrawal.
What makes it ideal for withdrawal is that it has a very
long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all of the
short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A
long half life means that a stable does can be acheived
with one dose per day at a level that will not cause (or
even allow) euphoria, which is what addicts are chasing.
Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction
when they hear "methadone". It is a superb pain medicine
that would otherwise help a lot more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans
during WWII. So why, given its addictive properties, would
a cyclist use it??

Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of
medications, one of them being cough medecine.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and
was used for pain LONG before it was used for withdrawal.

If I remember correctly it was developed to aid in
detoxification of heroin addicts in the 1950's by (of all
people) the Oakland Police Department. It was after that
when other uses were developed.

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom.pas.earthlink.net...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and
was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal.

If I remember correctly it was developed to aid in
detoxification of

heroin

Quoted message said:

addicts in the 1950's by (of all people) the Oakland
Police Department. It was after that when other uses were
developed.

It is simply a legal heroin substitute that's controllable.
It's better and safer to hand out methodone to junkies
instead of the real deal heroin. Methodone gets you high and
is also abused.

-Ken

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:NHZHc.53720$MB3.1210@attbi_s04...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom.pas.earthlink.net...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine
and was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal.

If I remember correctly it was developed to aid in
detoxification of

heroin

Quoted message said:

addicts in the 1950's by (of all people) the Oakland
Police Department.

It

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was after that when other uses were developed.

Wrong again, Tommy.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt
(Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was
controlled after

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and
traces of

methadone,

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pain killer, were found in his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt
while it waits

for

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-
Domo team hotel

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury,
Mirko Monti, told Cyclingnews this morning that as yet
there's no communique about the positive test that he
knows about. However, it's usually up to the

race

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and
was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it
ideal for

withdrawal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours)
relative to all of

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A
long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day
at a level that will not cause (or even allow) euphoria,
which is what addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction
when they hear "methadone". It is a superb pain medicine
that would otherwise help a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans
during WWII. So

why,

Quoted message said:

given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

Why would a cyclist use it? There are 2 key reasons any
patient would use
it. One is pain (chronic pain since it is very difficult to
titrate it is almost never used for acute traumatic
pain) or for addiction. I do not know the laws in Europe
but in the US you must be registered as an addict to get
it to treat addiction. It is given to pain patient with
schedule II Rx.

There are no performance benefits whatsoever. Pain meds are
banned (wrongly
itA) because in theory they can assist the athlete in
completing a higher volume of training and I guess in
some cases higher intensity. In practice I can't see
Methadone used for that because of the titration
problems (you would pretty much have to take it at a
stable dose all the time). Short acting pain meds could
be used to help people in Tyler's situation in last
year's Tour. I suppose that is one reason that
justifies the ban but obviously pain in itself does not
always hinder performance. In fact in some cases, pain
can be alleviated somewhat by regular exercise and it
is not unusual to see patients using pain meds while
undergoing aggressive physical therapy. I find it sad
that if a cyclist has an injury like Tyler's that he
had to go the whole Tour without the benefit of the
most effective pain meds that any other patient would
have every right to take (as determined by the treating
MD of course).

"Happy puppy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Methadone is an excellent choice for Bicycle racing.

What are you talking about?

Quoted message said:

Excellent pain killer. Long acting

Yes it is. That is the first and last thing you said that
makes any sense.

Quoted message said:

...and a wider band between pain relief and the
feeling high.

The dopamine response ("feeling high"😉 is gone after several
weeks at the longest if it was ever present...never to
return *no matter what dose* the patient is on. Most
patients never have a dopamine response from Methadone.

Quoted message said:

Heroin is shorter acting and has a very small band between
pain relieve

and

Quoted message said:

feeling high, and would require several stops to shoot-up.

Huh?

Quoted message said:

Methadone is also highly addicitive.

No, not addictive. Physical dependance is not the same as
addictive. Most patients never have any impulse or desire to
take any additional doses and often forget to take their
doses. There is no response that the patient will feel when
taking it and so there is no Pavlovian reaction to the drug.
It is the dopamine response that some drugs at a high enough
dose becomes directly associated with taking the drug. This
causes your brain to crave the drug in order to obtain that
feeling again and so on.

Physical dependance describes what happens when the drug is
titrated down too aggressively and is very problematic with
Methadone. The patient can feel a loss of energy that many
describe as feeling like influenza. That is really the only
reason it is not used a lot more widely. There is also the
concern that many drug addicts will stockpile Methadone to
reduce the risk of taking addictive drugs. In theory they
can take it when their supplies of the (addictive opioid)
recreational drug runs out.

Quoted message said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS"
<[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

>"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message new-
>s:[email hidden]-
>t...
>
>>From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt
>>(Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

>>during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was
>>controlled after

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and
>>traces of

methadone,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a

>>pain killer, were found in his urine.
>>
>>Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend
>>Brandt while it waits

for

>a
>
>>counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-
>>Domo team hotel

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.
>>
>>Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury,
>>Mirko Monti,

told

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no
>>communique about the positive test that he knows
>>about. However, it's usually up to the

race

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>organisation to issue such a communique.
>>
>>
>>
>>But does it really mask pain? See:
>
>Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine
>and was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it
>ideal for

withdrawal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours)
>relative to all

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

>short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines.
>A long half life

means

>that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per
>day at a level

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what
>addicts are

chasing.

>Too bad so many people in the US only think of
>addiction when they

hear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would
>otherwise help a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans
during WWII. So

why,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use
it??

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications
than non-narcotic analgesics. They can cause
constipation and occasionally nausea, but usually not
the gastric upset of NSAIDS. When you're eating as much
as these guys must, I would imagine that could be a
problem. Also, while any narcotic can be addictive, the
slow elimination rate lessens the euphoria and rush, so
over the short term for the legitimate user addiction is
probably very unlikely.

Steve

Steve

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications than
non-narcotic analgesics. They can cause constipation and
occasionally nausea, but usually not the gastric upset of
NSAIDS. When you're eating as much as these guys must, I
would imagine that could be a problem. Also, while any
narcotic can be addictive, the slow elimination rate
lessens the euphoria and rush,

Opiod naive patients *might* feel euphoria from Methadone
but very few addicts or experienced opioid users will feel
anything at all precisely because any drug induced euphoria
is caused by dramatic increases in a given drug. As you say,
the "slow release rate" means that the drug level is very
stable in the body and is built up gradually over the first
few days of dosing. There is no rapid onset that comes along
at any particular level since it just gradually builds up.
This is totally contrary to what recreational euphoria
seeking drug users are trying to do when they abuse drugs by
injecting them in veins or snorting them. They want the dose
delievered in seconds and minutes, not in days!

Quoted message said:

so over the short term for the legitimate user addiction
is probably very unlikely.

It is not good for short term users and although addiction
is almost guaranteed not to be a problem, physical
dependance is a significant risk if it is not titrated
correctly and that is not something that a lot of MDs know
how to do. Most MDs don't even know how to titrate up and
even many addiction specialists are not comfortable with
taking patients all the way off of Methadone once they put
someone on it, so unfortunately there is not a lot of
clinical data on titrating patients off of Methadone.

Quoted message said:

Steve

Steve

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of
medications, one of them being cough medecine.

Wow, I never heard of that one. Is that in Europe or Canada
(or both)? I know it is *not* available in any compounds in
the US. I can't think of any schedule II drugs that are also
used in cough meds.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MK-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message new-
s:[email hidden]-
t...
> From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt
> (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

> during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was
> controlled after

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and
> traces of

methadone,

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

> pain killer, were found in his urine.
>
> Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend
> Brandt while it

waits

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for

Quoted message said:

a
> counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-
> Domo team hotel

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.
>
> Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury,
> Mirko Monti,

told

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no
> communique about the positive test that he knows
> about. However, it's usually up to the

race

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> organisation to issue such a communique.
>
>
>
> But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine
and was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it
ideal for

withdrawal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours)
relative to all

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines.
A long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per
day at a level

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what
addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of
addiction when they

hear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would
otherwise help a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans
during WWII. So

why,

Quoted message said:

given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

Why would a cyclist use it?

Why indeed. Especially as it is so readily detectable. Must
be more to the story, assuming the test was accurate.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of
medications, one of them being cough medecine.

Wow, I never heard of that one. Is that in Europe or
Canada (or both)? I know it is *not* available in any
compounds in the US. I can't think of

any

Quoted message said:

schedule II drugs that are also used in cough meds.

That TRG dude is thinking of the old daze when cough
medicine had CODEINE in it.

You don't know what you are talking about, Chris.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Happy puppy" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Methadone is an excellent choice for Bicycle racing.

What are you talking about?

Quoted message said:

Excellent pain killer. Long acting

Yes it is. That is the first and last thing you said that
makes any sense.

Quoted message said:

...and a wider band between pain relief and the
feeling high.

The dopamine response ("feeling high"😉 is gone after
several weeks at the longest if it was ever
present...never to return *no matter what dose* the
patient is on. Most patients never have a dopamine
response from

Methadone.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Heroin is shorter acting and has a very small band
between pain relieve

and

Quoted message said:

feeling high, and would require several stops to
shoot-up.

Huh?

Quoted message said:

Methadone is also highly addicitive.

No, not addictive. Physical dependance is not the same as
addictive. Most patients never have any impulse or desire
to take any additional doses and often forget to take
their doses. There is no response that the patient

will

Quoted message said:

feel when taking it and so there is no Pavlovian reaction
to the drug. It

is

Quoted message said:

the dopamine response that some drugs at a high enough
dose becomes

directly

Quoted message said:

associated with taking the drug. This causes your brain to
crave the drug

in

Quoted message said:

order to obtain that feeling again and so on.

Physical dependance describes what happens when the drug
is titrated down too aggressively and is very problematic
with Methadone. The patient can feel a loss of energy that
many describe as feeling like influenza. That

is

Quoted message said:

really the only reason it is not used a lot more widely.
There is also the concern that many drug addicts will
stockpile Methadone to reduce the risk of taking addictive
drugs. In theory they can take it when their supplies

of

Quoted message said:

the (addictive opioid) recreational drug runs out.

Quoted message said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS"
<[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty wrote:

> "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in
> message -"]news:[email hidden]-
> ess.com...
>
>>"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>>-"]news:[email hidden]-
>>nk.net...
>>
>>>From CyclingNews: Brandt positive Christophe Brandt
>>>(Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test
>
> positive
>
>>>during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was
>>>controlled after

the

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Quoted message said:

>>>second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and
>>>traces of

methadone,

Quoted message said:

>
> a
>
>>>pain killer, were found in his urine.
>>>
>>>Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend
>>>Brandt while it

waits

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> for
>
>>a
>>
>>>counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-
>>>Domo team hotel

this

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>>>morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.
>>>
>>>Despite this, the president of the Tour's race
>>>jury, Mirko Monti,

told

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no
>>>communique about

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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>>>positive test that he knows about. However, it's
>>>usually up to the

race

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>>>organisation to issue such a communique.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>But does it really mask pain? See:
>>
>>Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine
>>and was used

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pain

Quoted message said:

>>LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes
>>it ideal for

withdrawal

Quoted message said:

>>is that it has a very long half life (up to 40
>>hours) relative to

all

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> the
>
>>short acting (short half life) opioid pain
>>medicines. A long half

life

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> means
>
>>that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per
>>day at a level

that

Quoted message said:

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>>will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is
>>what addicts are
>
> chasing.
>
>>Too bad so many people in the US only think of
>>addiction when they

hear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would
>>otherwise help

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lot

Quoted message said:

>>more people.
>
>
> Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans
> during WWII.

So

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

why,

Quoted message said:

> given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use
> it??
>
>
>

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications
than non-narcotic analgesics. They can cause
constipation and occasionally nausea, but usually not
the gastric upset of NSAIDS. When you're eating as
much

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these guys must, I would imagine that could be a
problem. Also, while any narcotic can be addictive,
the slow elimination rate lessens the euphoria and
rush, so over the short term for the legitimate user
addiction is probably very unlikely.

Steve

Steve

Chris said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of
medications, one of them being cough medecine.

Wow, I never heard of that one. Is that in Europe or
Canada (or both)? I know it is *not* available in any
compounds in the US. I can't think of any schedule II
drugs that are also used in cough meds.

I'm a long way past my pharmocology course, but IIRC
dextromethorphan (Romilar) is structurally similar
to methadone. I don't think it has any narcotic or
analgesic properties. Of course, codeine is also
used as an antitussive.

Steve

Steven Bornfeld said:

Chris said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of
medications, one of them being cough medecine.

Wow, I never heard of that one. Is that in Europe or
Canada (or both)? I know it is *not* available in any
compounds in the US. I can't think of any schedule II
drugs that are also used in cough meds.

I'm a long way past my pharmocology course, but IIRC
dextromethorphan (Romilar) is structurally similar to
methadone. I don't think it has any narcotic or analgesic
properties. Of course, codeine is also used as an
antitussive.

Dextromethorphan is a dissociative in a similar respect to
ketamine, if taken in a high enough dose.

dextromethorphan.wsdxmguide.htmOpen ↗