Methadone=Pain Killer??

In article <[email hidden]>, B.

Lafferty said:

From CyclingNews:
Brandt positive
Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test positive
during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after the
second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of methadone, a
pain killer, were found in his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it waits for a
counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel this
morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti, told
Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique about the
positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually up to the race
organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/methadone/

Yes Methadone is a pain medication. My mother uses it for pain control
of a very old hip injury she has had for most of her life.

B. Lafferty said:

Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test positive
during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after the
second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of methadone, a
pain killer, were found in his urine.

Quoted message said:

But does it really mask pain? See:

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/methadone/

According to
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?Methadone
it is "used especially in the form of its hydrochloride for the relief
of pain".

--

Martin Honnen

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews:
Brandt positive
Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test positive
during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after the
second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of methadone, a
pain killer, were found in his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it waits for

a

Quoted message said:

counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel this
morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti, told
Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique about the
positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually up to the race
organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for pain
LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it ideal for withdrawal
is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all of the
short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A long half life means
that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day at a level that
will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what addicts are chasing.
Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction when they hear
"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would otherwise help a lot
more people.

Quoted message said:

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/methadone/

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews:
Brandt positive
Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after the
second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of methadone,

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pain killer, were found in his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it waits

for

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel this
morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti, told
Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique about the
positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually up to the race
organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for pain
LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it ideal for withdrawal
is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all of

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day at a level that
will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction when they hear
"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would otherwise help a lot
more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans during WWII. So why,
given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

B. Lafferty said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews:
Brandt positive
Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after the
second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of methadone,

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pain killer, were found in his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it waits

for

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel this
morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti, told
Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique about the
positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually up to the race
organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for pain
LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it ideal for withdrawal
is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all of

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day at a level that
will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction when they hear
"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would otherwise help a lot
more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans during WWII. So why,
given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications than non-narcotic
analgesics. They can cause constipation and occasionally nausea, but
usually not the gastric upset of NSAIDS. When you're eating as much as
these guys must, I would imagine that could be a problem. Also, while
any narcotic can be addictive, the slow elimination rate lessens the
euphoria and rush, so over the short term for the legitimate user
addiction is probably very unlikely.

Steve

Steve

Methadone is an excellent choice for Bicycle racing. Excellent pain killer.
Long acting and a wider band between pain relief and the feeling high.
Heroin is shorter acting and has a very small band between pain relieve and
feeling high, and would require several stops to shoot-up.
Methadone is also highly addicitive.

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>From CyclingNews:
>Brandt positive
>Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

>during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after the
>second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of

methadone,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

>pain killer, were found in his urine.
>
>Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it waits

for

Quoted message said:

a

>counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.
>
>Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti, told
>Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique about the
>positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually up to the race
>organisation to issue such a communique.
>
>
>
>But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it ideal for

withdrawal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all of

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day at a level that
will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction when they hear
"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would otherwise help a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans during WWII. So

why,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications than non-narcotic
analgesics. They can cause constipation and occasionally nausea, but
usually not the gastric upset of NSAIDS. When you're eating as much as
these guys must, I would imagine that could be a problem. Also, while
any narcotic can be addictive, the slow elimination rate lessens the
euphoria and rush, so over the short term for the legitimate user
addiction is probably very unlikely.

Steve

Steve

B. Lafferty said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews:
Brandt positive
Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test
positive during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was
controlled after the second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July
5, and traces of methadone, a pain killer, were found in his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it
waits for a counter-expertise. French police searched the
Lotto-Domo team hotel this morning, and reportedly left with a big
bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti,
told Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique
about the positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually
up to the race organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used
for pain LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it ideal
for withdrawal is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours)
relative to all of the short acting (short half life) opioid pain
medicines. A long half life means that a stable does can be acheived
with one dose per day at a level that will not cause (or even allow)
euphoria, which is what addicts are chasing. Too bad so many people
in the US only think of addiction when they hear "methadone". It is
a superb pain medicine that would otherwise help a lot more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans during WWII.
So why, given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of medications, one of
them being cough medecine.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for pain
LONG before it was used for withdrawal.

If I remember correctly it was developed to aid in detoxification of heroin
addicts in the 1950's by (of all people) the Oakland Police Department. It
was after that when other uses were developed.

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom.pas.earthlink.net...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal.

If I remember correctly it was developed to aid in detoxification of

heroin

Quoted message said:

addicts in the 1950's by (of all people) the Oakland Police Department. It
was after that when other uses were developed.

It is simply a legal heroin substitute that's controllable.
It's better and safer to hand out methodone to junkies instead of
the real deal heroin. Methodone gets you high and is also
abused.

-Ken

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:NHZHc.53720$MB3.1210@attbi_s04...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom.pas.earthlink.net...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal.

If I remember correctly it was developed to aid in detoxification of

heroin

Quoted message said:

addicts in the 1950's by (of all people) the Oakland Police Department.

It

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was after that when other uses were developed.

Wrong again, Tommy.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From CyclingNews:
Brandt positive
Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of

methadone,

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pain killer, were found in his urine.

Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it waits

for

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.

Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti, told
Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique about the
positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually up to the

race

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

organisation to issue such a communique.

But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it ideal for

withdrawal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all of

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day at a level that
will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction when they hear
"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would otherwise help a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans during WWII. So

why,

Quoted message said:

given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

Why would a cyclist use it? There are 2 key reasons any patient would use
it. One is pain (chronic pain since it is very difficult to titrate it is
almost never used for acute traumatic pain) or for addiction. I do not know
the laws in Europe but in the US you must be registered as an addict to get
it to treat addiction. It is given to pain patient with schedule II Rx.

There are no performance benefits whatsoever. Pain meds are banned (wrongly
IMO) because in theory they can assist the athlete in completing a higher
volume of training and I guess in some cases higher intensity. In practice I
can't see Methadone used for that because of the titration problems (you
would pretty much have to take it at a stable dose all the time). Short
acting pain meds could be used to help people in Tyler's situation in last
year's Tour. I suppose that is one reason that justifies the ban but
obviously pain in itself does not always hinder performance. In fact in some
cases, pain can be alleviated somewhat by regular exercise and it is not
unusual to see patients using pain meds while undergoing aggressive physical
therapy. I find it sad that if a cyclist has an injury like Tyler's that he
had to go the whole Tour without the benefit of the most effective pain meds
that any other patient would have every right to take (as determined by the
treating MD of course).

"Happy puppy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Methadone is an excellent choice for Bicycle racing.

What are you talking about?

Quoted message said:

Excellent pain killer.
Long acting

Yes it is. That is the first and last thing you said that makes any sense.

Quoted message said:

...and a wider band between pain relief and the feeling high.

The dopamine response ("feeling high"😉 is gone after several weeks at the
longest if it was ever present...never to return *no matter what dose* the
patient is on. Most patients never have a dopamine response from Methadone.

Quoted message said:

Heroin is shorter acting and has a very small band between pain relieve

and

Quoted message said:

feeling high, and would require several stops to shoot-up.

Huh?

Quoted message said:

Methadone is also highly addicitive.

No, not addictive. Physical dependance is not the same as addictive. Most
patients never have any impulse or desire to take any additional doses and
often forget to take their doses. There is no response that the patient will
feel when taking it and so there is no Pavlovian reaction to the drug. It is
the dopamine response that some drugs at a high enough dose becomes directly
associated with taking the drug. This causes your brain to crave the drug in
order to obtain that feeling again and so on.

Physical dependance describes what happens when the drug is titrated down
too aggressively and is very problematic with Methadone. The patient can
feel a loss of energy that many describe as feeling like influenza. That is
really the only reason it is not used a lot more widely. There is also the
concern that many drug addicts will stockpile Methadone to reduce the risk
of taking addictive drugs. In theory they can take it when their supplies of
the (addictive opioid) recreational drug runs out.

Quoted message said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>
>>From CyclingNews:
>>Brandt positive
>>Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

>>during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of

methadone,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a

>>pain killer, were found in his urine.
>>
>>Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it waits

for

>a
>
>>counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.
>>
>>Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti,

told

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique about the
>>positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually up to the

race

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>organisation to issue such a communique.
>>
>>
>>
>>But does it really mask pain? See:
>
>Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it ideal for

withdrawal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

>short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A long half life

means

>that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day at a level

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what addicts are

chasing.

>Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction when they

hear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would otherwise help a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans during WWII. So

why,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications than non-narcotic
analgesics. They can cause constipation and occasionally nausea, but
usually not the gastric upset of NSAIDS. When you're eating as much as
these guys must, I would imagine that could be a problem. Also, while
any narcotic can be addictive, the slow elimination rate lessens the
euphoria and rush, so over the short term for the legitimate user
addiction is probably very unlikely.

Steve

Steve

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications than non-narcotic
analgesics. They can cause constipation and occasionally nausea, but
usually not the gastric upset of NSAIDS. When you're eating as much as
these guys must, I would imagine that could be a problem. Also, while
any narcotic can be addictive, the slow elimination rate lessens the
euphoria and rush,

Opiod naive patients *might* feel euphoria from Methadone but very few
addicts or experienced opioid users will feel anything at all precisely
because any drug induced euphoria is caused by dramatic increases in a given
drug. As you say, the "slow release rate" means that the drug level is very
stable in the body and is built up gradually over the first few days of
dosing. There is no rapid onset that comes along at any particular level
since it just gradually builds up. This is totally contrary to what
recreational euphoria seeking drug users are trying to do when they abuse
drugs by injecting them in veins or snorting them. They want the dose
delievered in seconds and minutes, not in days!

Quoted message said:

so over the short term for the legitimate user
addiction is probably very unlikely.

It is not good for short term users and although addiction is almost
guaranteed not to be a problem, physical dependance is a significant risk if
it is not titrated correctly and that is not something that a lot of MDs
know how to do. Most MDs don't even know how to titrate up and even many
addiction specialists are not comfortable with taking patients all the way
off of Methadone once they put someone on it, so unfortunately there is not
a lot of clinical data on titrating patients off of Methadone.

Quoted message said:

Steve

Steve

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of medications, one of
them being cough medecine.

Wow, I never heard of that one. Is that in Europe or Canada (or both)? I
know it is *not* available in any compounds in the US. I can't think of any
schedule II drugs that are also used in cough meds.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> From CyclingNews:
> Brandt positive
> Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test

positive

Quoted message said:

> during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of

methadone,

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

> pain killer, were found in his urine.
>
> Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it

waits

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for

Quoted message said:

a
> counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.
>
> Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti,

told

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique about the
> positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually up to the

race

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> organisation to issue such a communique.
>
>
>
> But does it really mask pain? See:

Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used for

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it ideal for

withdrawal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to all

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A long half life

means

Quoted message said:

that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day at a level

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what addicts are

chasing.

Quoted message said:

Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction when they

hear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would otherwise help a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more people.

Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans during WWII. So

why,

Quoted message said:

given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??

Why would a cyclist use it?

Why indeed. Especially as it is so readily detectable. Must be more to the
story, assuming the test was accurate.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of medications, one of
them being cough medecine.

Wow, I never heard of that one. Is that in Europe or Canada (or both)? I
know it is *not* available in any compounds in the US. I can't think of

any

Quoted message said:

schedule II drugs that are also used in cough meds.

That TRG dude is thinking of the old daze when cough medicine
had CODEINE in it.

You don't know what you are talking about, Chris.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Happy puppy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Methadone is an excellent choice for Bicycle racing.

What are you talking about?

Quoted message said:

Excellent pain killer.
Long acting

Yes it is. That is the first and last thing you said that makes any sense.

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...and a wider band between pain relief and the feeling high.

The dopamine response ("feeling high"😉 is gone after several weeks at the
longest if it was ever present...never to return *no matter what dose* the
patient is on. Most patients never have a dopamine response from

Methadone.

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Heroin is shorter acting and has a very small band between pain relieve

and

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feeling high, and would require several stops to shoot-up.

Huh?

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Methadone is also highly addicitive.

No, not addictive. Physical dependance is not the same as addictive. Most
patients never have any impulse or desire to take any additional doses and
often forget to take their doses. There is no response that the patient

will

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feel when taking it and so there is no Pavlovian reaction to the drug. It

is

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the dopamine response that some drugs at a high enough dose becomes

directly

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associated with taking the drug. This causes your brain to crave the drug

in

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order to obtain that feeling again and so on.

Physical dependance describes what happens when the drug is titrated down
too aggressively and is very problematic with Methadone. The patient can
feel a loss of energy that many describe as feeling like influenza. That

is

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really the only reason it is not used a lot more widely. There is also the
concern that many drug addicts will stockpile Methadone to reduce the risk
of taking addictive drugs. In theory they can take it when their supplies

of

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the (addictive opioid) recreational drug runs out.

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"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

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news:[email hidden]...

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B. Lafferty wrote:

> "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>
>>"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>>news:[email hidden]...
>>
>>>From CyclingNews:
>>>Brandt positive
>>>Christophe Brandt (Lotto-Domo) has become the first rider to test
>
> positive
>
>>>during the Tour de France. The Belgian climber was controlled after

the

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>>>second stage from Charleroi to Namur on July 5, and traces of

methadone,

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>
> a
>
>>>pain killer, were found in his urine.
>>>
>>>Lotto-Domo has decided to provisionally suspend Brandt while it

waits

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>
> for
>
>>a
>>
>>>counter-expertise. French police searched the Lotto-Domo team hotel

this

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>>>morning, and reportedly left with a big bag.
>>>
>>>Despite this, the president of the Tour's race jury, Mirko Monti,

told

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>>>Cyclingnews this morning that as yet there's no communique about

the

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>>>positive test that he knows about. However, it's usually up to the

race

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>>>organisation to issue such a communique.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>But does it really mask pain? See:
>>
>>Are you kidding? It was developed as a pain medicine and was used

for

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pain

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>>LONG before it was used for withdrawal. What makes it ideal for

withdrawal

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>>is that it has a very long half life (up to 40 hours) relative to

all

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of

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>
> the
>
>>short acting (short half life) opioid pain medicines. A long half

life

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>
> means
>
>>that a stable does can be acheived with one dose per day at a level

that

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>>will not cause (or even allow) euphoria, which is what addicts are
>
> chasing.
>
>>Too bad so many people in the US only think of addiction when they

hear

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>>"methadone". It is a superb pain medicine that would otherwise help

a

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lot

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>>more people.
>
>
> Makes sense, in that it was developed by the Germans during WWII.

So

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why,

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> given its addictive properties, would a cyclist use it??
>
>
>

Narcotic analgesics work better in some applications than non-narcotic
analgesics. They can cause constipation and occasionally nausea, but
usually not the gastric upset of NSAIDS. When you're eating as much

as

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these guys must, I would imagine that could be a problem. Also, while
any narcotic can be addictive, the slow elimination rate lessens the
euphoria and rush, so over the short term for the legitimate user
addiction is probably very unlikely.

Steve

Steve

Chris said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of medications, one of
them being cough medecine.

Wow, I never heard of that one. Is that in Europe or Canada (or both)? I
know it is *not* available in any compounds in the US. I can't think of any
schedule II drugs that are also used in cough meds.

I'm a long way past my pharmocology course, but IIRC dextromethorphan
(Romilar) is structurally similar to methadone. I don't think it has
any narcotic or analgesic properties. Of course, codeine is also used
as an antitussive.

Steve

Quoted message said:

Steven Bornfeld said:

Chris said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Apparently methodone is an ingredient in a couple of medications,
one of them being cough medecine.

Wow, I never heard of that one. Is that in Europe or Canada (or
both)? I know it is *not* available in any compounds in the US. I
can't think of any schedule II drugs that are also used in cough
meds.

I'm a long way past my pharmocology course, but IIRC dextromethorphan
(Romilar) is structurally similar to methadone. I don't think it has
any narcotic or analgesic properties. Of course, codeine is also used
as an antitussive.

Dextromethorphan is a dissociative in a similar respect to ketamine, if
taken in a high enough dose.

http://www.dextromethorphan.ws/dxmguide.htm