Metal flake in brake pad...

Quoted message said:

I took my bike into the LBS where I purchased it to have them look at a
brake pad that was scraping, metal on metal. I thought it was worn down
to the metal. Turned out to be a little metal flake in the pad.

Guy wanted to write up a ticket and have me leave it over night. They
weren't busy - one of the Wrenches was out in the parking lot putting a
Yakima rack on the top of his car. And this was two to three hours before
closing time.

Doesn't that seem excessive? I don't mind paying, but leave it overnight?

Very excessive, unless at the very least they were planning on swapping
your brake pads for KoolStops, which don't pick up bits of metal.

Quoted message said:

I took it across the street and they dug the flake out for free, and even
did a once over, checked the brakes, etc. Very nice considering I bought
the bike elsewhere. The guy said 'oh no big deal it will only take me 30
seconds.

Exactly.

Quoted message said:

Also come to find out why my LBS where I got my Trek offers 'free life of
the bike tuneups'. They didn't even -do- the tune up on mine last time (I
told them to be thorough, I was riding out of town, and I'd even pay for
a more thorought check up). The guy apparently just hung the bike up and
gave it back to me the next day touching nothing on it. All the same
little adjustment problems were still there. The LBS across the street
spent 10 minutes checking everything after digging the flake out - didn't
want me to leave without a safe ride.

Guess I won't be going back there.

Sounds like a wise choice, especially with a much better store right across
the street!

--
Benjamin Lewis

Luke, I'm yer father, eh. Come over to the dark side, you hoser.
-- Dave Thomas, "Strange Brew"

jj said:

I took my bike into the LBS where I purchased it to have them look at a
brake pad that was scraping, metal on metal. I thought it was worn down to
the metal. Turned out to be a little metal flake in the pad.

Guy wanted to write up a ticket and have me leave it over night

Well, from what you've said, that shop has clearly stated that they don't
want your business, so take it across the street.

As the other poster mentioned about Kool-stops: it's really true, they
don't pick up [censored] off the road like glass and metal (I'm sure there have
been documented cases :P). I finally switched back to a set after riding
with some very spendy Bontrager pieces of [censored]--embedded glass or rock
every mile or so! Granted there's a lot of construction in my 'hood right
now, but I've ridden the Kool-Stops scrape-free for about a month now. 🙂

"jj" wrote: (clip) Guess I won't be going back there.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I wouldn't either. In a way they did you a favor by being so bad that you
had no choice but going to their competitor. Don't they know they are
driving their customers away? When you leave in disgust, under
circumstances like these, there is no way they can get you back. There is a
saying, "The pitcher goes to the well until it breaks."

Quoted message said:

Also come to find out why my LBS where I got my Trek offers 'free life of
the bike tuneups'. They didn't even -do- the tune up on mine last time (I
told them to be thorough, I was riding out of town, and I'd even pay for a
more thorought check up). The guy apparently just hung the bike up and
gave
it back to me the next day touching nothing on it. All the same little
adjustment problems were still there.

I feel your pain, only more so. You have no idea what it's like, as a
bicycle retailer, to have customers saying that such-and-such shop gives
free "tune-ups" for life... and me knowing that the situation is similar to
what you describe. You really don't want to bad-mouth other retailers, but
how do you get the point across that, often, you get exactly what you pay
for? Without sounding bad?

In the real world, if you hire decent mechanics, and you allow them to spend
the time to make things right (and build it properly in the first place),
it's going to cost a shop a significant chunk of money. While the shop
offering "free" tune-ups, but not really doing anything, isn't facing those
costs. Eventually, customers figure things out, but that's often only after
they've bought the bicycle elsewhere.

Fortunately, most shops aren't like that, and work very hard to take care of
their customers.

I should also, as usual, point out that in no way are we perfect. We screw
up from time to time, with things that might not have been written properly
on a repair tag (and thus not done), or simply screwed up because somebody
was having a really bad day. It happens. The difference is that we go out of
our way to take care of our mistakes (a difference that I notice often when
I take in a car for service, and they say they took care of whatever it was,
but it turns out it was something else... and you end up paying twice, maybe
even three times for something because they didn't properly diagnose the
problem the first time.). As a retailer, I've eaten a fair amount of labor
and parts over the years. I have yet to see evidence of that at any auto
shop I've taken a car to. But, it doesn't bother me; in fact, it makes me
feel better about how we run our business when I see what happens elsewhere.
Still, I wish we could be better, and have even fewer opportunities to "do
the right thing" because everything was perfect the first time.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I took my bike into the LBS where I purchased it to have them look at a
brake pad that was scraping, metal on metal. I thought it was worn down to
the metal. Turned out to be a little metal flake in the pad.

Guy wanted to write up a ticket and have me leave it over night. They
weren't busy - one of the Wrenches was out in the parking lot putting a
Yakima rack on the top of his car. And this was two to three hours before
closing time.

Doesn't that seem excessive? I don't mind paying, but leave it overnight?

I took it across the street and they dug the flake out for free, and even
did a once over, checked the brakes, etc. Very nice considering I bought
the bike elsewhere. The guy said 'oh no big deal it will only take me 30
seconds.

Also come to find out why my LBS where I got my Trek offers 'free life of
the bike tuneups'. They didn't even -do- the tune up on mine last time (I
told them to be thorough, I was riding out of town, and I'd even pay for a
more thorought check up). The guy apparently just hung the bike up and
gave
it back to me the next day touching nothing on it. All the same little
adjustment problems were still there. The LBS across the street spent 10
minutes checking everything after digging the flake out - didn't want me
to
leave without a safe ride.

Guess I won't be going back there.

jj

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:22:53 -0800, Benjamin Lewis <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I took my bike into the LBS where I purchased it to have them look at a
brake pad that was scraping, metal on metal. I thought it was worn down
to the metal. Turned out to be a little metal flake in the pad.

Guy wanted to write up a ticket and have me leave it over night. They
weren't busy - one of the Wrenches was out in the parking lot putting a
Yakima rack on the top of his car. And this was two to three hours before
closing time.

Doesn't that seem excessive? I don't mind paying, but leave it overnight?

Very excessive, unless at the very least they were planning on swapping
your brake pads for KoolStops, which don't pick up bits of metal.

Quoted message said:

I took it across the street and they dug the flake out for free, and even
did a once over, checked the brakes, etc. Very nice considering I bought
the bike elsewhere. The guy said 'oh no big deal it will only take me 30
seconds.

Exactly.

Quoted message said:

Also come to find out why my LBS where I got my Trek offers 'free life of
the bike tuneups'. They didn't even -do- the tune up on mine last time (I
told them to be thorough, I was riding out of town, and I'd even pay for
a more thorought check up). The guy apparently just hung the bike up and
gave it back to me the next day touching nothing on it. All the same
little adjustment problems were still there. The LBS across the street
spent 10 minutes checking everything after digging the flake out - didn't
want me to leave without a safe ride.

Guess I won't be going back there.

Sounds like a wise choice, especially with a much better store right across
the street!

I just hate having to leave the place where I bought the bike. Everyone
says they're snobs, even my wife volunteered that and she went there a year
ago by herself to get me a gift. <sigh>

Truth is, if their only perk 'the free tuneups for life' consist of hanging
the bike on a hook, then I've lost nothing. I'd like to buy a Trek, but I'm
now changing my mind. In fact I was going to look seriously at a Trek 1000
or 1200 while he worked on it - I've been putting it off for a month - I
have the money, but they just don't want to sell me a bike.

They have been 'nice' enough to me on rare occasions, but they're also
randomly pissy. This guy even apologized to me for the last time he was
pissy. Seems like he likes his job OK, but never calls me by name, though I
went the extra mile and learned his name. They're definitely the poster
children for how NOT to run a LBS. They made me leave the bike for several
hours to over night for minor, minor things - adjust brakes, true a spoke,
adjust deraileurs - and charged me for all those things 'shop time'.

The thing is should I tell the owner? Heck he's the worst of all...when he
assembled my bike, I asked him to show me how to adjust the hand brakes. He
just pointed at them and said turn that. I had to say 'turn what?' and he
points again, and I said 'can you come over here and demonstrate, I'm not
following you, there's lots of 'stuff' on the handlebars...and I've not
owned a bike for 20 years'. He still wouldn't do it. I kept holding on for
the 'free tune ups', but when I finally realized they don't actually -do-
anything...it's weird, because I kep having the feeling of insecurity and
doubt when I took the bike home, but couldn't put my finger on it. The
wrench said he rode it around the parking lot after fixing a problem, but I
just couldn't believe him. He's like too lazy to even walk to the front of
the store to show me a bike, or get it down from the upper rack for me the
one time I asked. "Oh, I don't have a step stool, I can't reach it".
<shaking head>

The owner stopped me in the middle of a question while I was writing my
check for the bike and walked up to the front of the store to look at a guy
who came in to look at the water bottles. I mean I understand going to
welcome the customers, but to cut me off in the middle of a sentence?

I should have walked out right then and would have if I had known what PiBs
they turned out to be.

jj

maxo said:

jj said:

I took my bike into the LBS where I purchased it to have them look at a
brake pad that was scraping, metal on metal. I thought it was worn down to
the metal. Turned out to be a little metal flake in the pad.

Guy wanted to write up a ticket and have me leave it over night

Well, from what you've said, that shop has clearly stated that they don't
want your business, so take it across the street.

As the other poster mentioned about Kool-stops: it's really true, they
don't pick up [censored] off the road like glass and metal (I'm sure there have
been documented cases :P). I finally switched back to a set after riding
with some very spendy Bontrager pieces of [censored]--embedded glass or rock
every mile or so! Granted there's a lot of construction in my 'hood right
now, but I've ridden the Kool-Stops scrape-free for about a month now. 🙂

I've asked for them several times. Once I specified 'salmon' kool pads and
they put normal black Kool pads on. They won't even order them for me -
they tell me they're 'hard to get'.

I don't know how they stay in business. I'm not a demanding customer, and
keep giving them second chances. No more.

The only question is, should I go tell them why. Prob. won't have any
effect except to make me personna non gratis.

jj

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 02:50:23 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction

Bicycles said:

Quoted message said:

Also come to find out why my LBS where I got my Trek offers 'free life of
the bike tuneups'. They didn't even -do- the tune up on mine last time (I
told them to be thorough, I was riding out of town, and I'd even pay for a
more thorought check up). The guy apparently just hung the bike up and
gave
it back to me the next day touching nothing on it. All the same little
adjustment problems were still there.

I feel your pain, only more so. You have no idea what it's like, as a
bicycle retailer, to have customers saying that such-and-such shop gives
free "tune-ups" for life... and me knowing that the situation is similar to
what you describe. You really don't want to bad-mouth other retailers, but
how do you get the point across that, often, you get exactly what you pay
for? Without sounding bad?

The guys in the shop across the street were very reluctant to say anything,
and it was only after I started recounting things and then,
uncharacteristicaly became nearly apoplectic, when I realized -while-
telling the story (talking softly at first) that their 'tune ups' were just
hanging the bike on the hook, that one of them says 'yeah, I hear a
customer say they're going to go get a Trek, and I can't say anything, then
they come back here all disappointed in the 'attitude', and come back here
and recount these stories, then I feel bad, he said.

I mean, 'cmon, the original LBS shop knows I'm passionate about my bike and
my riding and I tell them I ride sometimes 200 miles a week - I don't think
they believe me...They act agog when I mention I rode in the rain. After
that they often smirk and say 'oh yeah you're the guy that rides in the
rain'. I told them, all perky, oh, yeah, its great - I ride everyday it's
not lightning, or a foot deep in snow, or if there's a hurricane (aug
2003). They seem angry 'man you ride this bike a -lot-!'. I don't know why
that makes them angry...as though my coming in and buying brake pads every
three weeks, or coming in to have the bar ends moved, or angry when they
have to true a spoke, saying I must have run over something (not true).

I pay for it, why be angry at me? It's as if they don't welcome me unless
I'm buying a bike every month and seem to forget they failed to get one
bike down for me to just look at more closely recently - I'm treated lke
I'm a homeless person just coming in to get some free heat, lol. But I'm
stubborn...I kept wanting to buy a Trek - love that name...and trying to
get along (I even tip the wrenches $5 when they do a same day job).

Then I started losing my love affair with Trek when I realized they put
racing wheels on lower level bikes...that sure gets laughs from the other
riders.

So now, I'm going to Fuji, and (horrors) Performance Bike shop across the
street. I guess it matters less that they're kind of the ugly step child of
the cycling retail world, with their rep of selling 'gray market' parts (or
so I've head), but this shop has the best, most caring wrenches and the
nicest manager one could ask for. I have to buy my gear there because my
original LBS doesn't carry much gear (no tights, no shoe covers, extremely
small amount of jerseys, and only in the small and medium sizes...I've felt
bad about that, too. Oh well, too bad I took so long to learn. Maybe this
post will help others to wake up and change or the ones with good shops to
appreciate it all the more. I know Mike's shop is great, but to tell the
truth, this kind of behavior can cause folks to wonder if all Trek shops
are like this - elitist, and condescending.

jj

jj said:

I've asked for them several times. Once I specified 'salmon' kool pads and
they put normal black Kool pads on. They won't even order them for me -
they tell me they're 'hard to get'.

Just get some off of the net and learn to put 'em on yourself. There's a
guy on ebay that sells Kool-Stops for a fair price believe it or not. LOL
Gotta make a living I guess. :P

jj said:

The thing is should I tell the owner? Heck he's the worst of all

Give him a piece of your mind, create a scene, scream and spit. You'll
feel better. :-)

I posted about a shop like this a while back. The only reason I ever went
there is because the other guys were closed on Sundays. Finally I
witnessed her lecturing a new bike owner who was a grown man in his 40 to
never ride his bike after fixing a flat--to always bring it back to the
shop for a fifteen dollar safety inspection. I interjected in a friendly
and rather loud voice, "you're absolutely full of [censored] if you think a
grown man can't be trusted to fix a flat." She was speechless.The guy
about to buy the bike thought so too and left and I did as well before she
became not so speechless...

Such businesses deserve to die--but this lady's
shop seems to thrive since there's a certain segment of the market that
apparently is impressed by the [censored] factor. Waddaya gonna do?

I do miss my Rapid Transit shop in Chicago. I walked in for the first
time and asked: "I want a modern version of an English three speed." The
saleslady replied: "Is black ok?". *grin* Now that's my kind of place.

maxo said:

jj said:

The thing is should I tell the owner? Heck he's the worst of all

Give him a piece of your mind, create a scene, scream and spit. You'll
feel better. :-)

I posted about a shop like this a while back. The only reason I ever went
there is because the other guys were closed on Sundays. Finally I
witnessed her lecturing a new bike owner who was a grown man in his 40 to
never ride his bike after fixing a flat--to always bring it back to the
shop for a fifteen dollar safety inspection. I interjected in a friendly
and rather loud voice, "you're absolutely full of [censored] if you think a
grown man can't be trusted to fix a flat." She was speechless.The guy
about to buy the bike thought so too and left and I did as well before she
became not so speechless...

Such businesses deserve to die--but this lady's
shop seems to thrive since there's a certain segment of the market that
apparently is impressed by the [censored] factor. Waddaya gonna do?

These guys aren't just a-holes...they're amost incompetent. Example: Last
week I mentioned having trouble gettin air in the new front tire and asked
him if he'd check it, 'can you pump it up to 80lbs'. He puts the pump on it
and says 'does it get 80 lbs?' I said "uh, I think so".

Now what mechanic would take a customer's say so on what the air pressure
should be. As a -professional- wrench, I'd -always- check the tire wall for
the actual pressure needed. He pumped it up to 80. hah.

Quoted message said:

I do miss my Rapid Transit shop in Chicago. I walked in for the first
time and asked: "I want a modern version of an English three speed." The
saleslady replied: "Is black ok?". *grin* Now that's my kind of place.

Black, with black accents. uh-huh. ;-D

jj

maxo said:

jj said:

The thing is should I tell the owner? Heck he's the worst of all

Give him a piece of your mind, create a scene, scream and spit. You'll
feel better. :-)

I posted about a shop like this a while back. The only reason I ever went
there is because the other guys were closed on Sundays. Finally I
witnessed her lecturing a new bike owner who was a grown man in his 40 to
never ride his bike after fixing a flat--to always bring it back to the
shop for a fifteen dollar safety inspection. I interjected in a friendly
and rather loud voice, "you're absolutely full of [censored] if you think a
grown man can't be trusted to fix a flat."

I dunno about that, we got jj here who demands to be shown in detail how to
adjust a brake. The adjusters are either at the lever, the cable stop or the
caliper and if someone can't figure that out he can't be trusted to make the
adjustment. Now personally, I agree with you that people can and should
generally be presumed competent. But in this case jj, the fellow who can't cope
with some debris in a brake pad or tell whether or not it is worn away wants
lessons in brake adjustment, that sounds to me like a guy who wants to be
entertained by the tech. IOW a timewaster of the first order.

Now, his shop is handling him poorly, true. But remember, we're only getting one
side of the story. The store owner walked away from a man writing a check to
converse with a fellow perusing waterbottles? Hmmmmm. Once again we're talking
about a guy who wants a detailed explanation of how to make an adjustment he
will never perform.

(jj, not getting down on you, but really, that's what I read in your post)

Quoted message said:

Such businesses deserve to die--but this lady's
shop seems to thrive since there's a certain segment of the market that
apparently is impressed by the [censored] factor. Waddaya gonna do?

Indeed. Some people love that [censored]. Some need it. Those who want and need it
will pay for it. I've got no use for the place.

Quoted message said:

I do miss my Rapid Transit shop in Chicago. I walked in for the first
time and asked: "I want a modern version of an English three speed." The
saleslady replied: "Is black ok?". *grin* Now that's my kind of place.

Gotta go with a place that knows and likes the products and customers especially
if they've got a sense of humor.

Ron

maxo said:

jj said:

The thing is should I tell the owner? Heck he's the worst of all

Give him a piece of your mind, create a scene, scream and spit. You'll
feel better. :-)

I posted about a shop like this a while back. The only reason I ever went
there is because the other guys were closed on Sundays. Finally I
witnessed her lecturing a new bike owner who was a grown man in his 40 to
never ride his bike after fixing a flat--to always bring it back to the
shop for a fifteen dollar safety inspection. I interjected in a friendly
and rather loud voice, "you're absolutely full of [censored] if you think a
grown man can't be trusted to fix a flat."

I dunno about that, we got jj here who demands to be shown in detail how to
adjust a brake. The adjusters are either at the lever, the cable stop or the
caliper and if someone can't figure that out he can't be trusted to make the
adjustment. Now personally, I agree with you that people can and should
generally be presumed competent. But in this case jj, the fellow who can't cope
with some debris in a brake pad or tell whether or not it is worn away wants
lessons in brake adjustment, that sounds to me like a guy who wants to be
entertained by the tech. IOW a timewaster of the first order.

Now, his shop is handling him poorly, true. But remember, we're only getting one
side of the story. The store owner walked away from a man writing a check to
converse with a fellow perusing waterbottles? Hmmmmm. Once again we're talking
about a guy who wants a detailed explanation of how to make an adjustment he
will never perform.

(jj, not getting down on you, but really, that's what I read in your post)

Quoted message said:

Such businesses deserve to die--but this lady's
shop seems to thrive since there's a certain segment of the market that
apparently is impressed by the [censored] factor. Waddaya gonna do?

Indeed. Some people love that [censored]. Some need it. Those who want and need it
will pay for it. I've got no use for the place.

Quoted message said:

I do miss my Rapid Transit shop in Chicago. I walked in for the first
time and asked: "I want a modern version of an English three speed." The
saleslady replied: "Is black ok?". *grin* Now that's my kind of place.

Gotta go with a place that knows and likes the products and customers especially
if they've got a sense of humor.

Ron

jj said:

maxo said:

jj said:

The thing is should I tell the owner? Heck he's the worst of all

Give him a piece of your mind, create a scene, scream and spit. You'll
feel better. :-)

I posted about a shop like this a while back. The only reason I ever went
there is because the other guys were closed on Sundays. Finally I
witnessed her lecturing a new bike owner who was a grown man in his 40 to
never ride his bike after fixing a flat--to always bring it back to the
shop for a fifteen dollar safety inspection. I interjected in a friendly
and rather loud voice, "you're absolutely full of [censored] if you think a
grown man can't be trusted to fix a flat." She was speechless.The guy
about to buy the bike thought so too and left and I did as well before she
became not so speechless...

Such businesses deserve to die--but this lady's
shop seems to thrive since there's a certain segment of the market that
apparently is impressed by the [censored] factor. Waddaya gonna do?

These guys aren't just a-holes...they're amost incompetent. Example: Last
week I mentioned having trouble gettin air in the new front tire and asked
him if he'd check it, 'can you pump it up to 80lbs'. He puts the pump on it
and says 'does it get 80 lbs?' I said "uh, I think so".

Now what mechanic would take a customer's say so on what the air pressure
should be. As a -professional- wrench, I'd -always- check the tire wall for
the actual pressure needed. He pumped it up to 80. hah.

Okay, so in addition to asking for instruction in how to do things you'll never
do, you've got a trick question or two. You want them to treat you as if you
know what you're talking about, but they better not ask you for information you
should have.

If YOU were a "-professional-" wrench you'd have starved to death years ago, so
what's with this "I'd -always-" [censored]. Are you saying that you, the guy who
wanted lessons in brake adjustment can't be trusted to even know how much air
goes in your own tires.

See, I don't know this mechanic, maybe he is incompetent, maybe he wanted to
know from you if you had any bloody clue how much air should go into the tire
before considering it a problem. Maybe he didn't have his glasses handy and has
a hard time reading black on black. I don't know, but you ain't selling me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do miss my Rapid Transit shop in Chicago. I walked in for the first
time and asked: "I want a modern version of an English three speed." The
saleslady replied: "Is black ok?". *grin* Now that's my kind of place.

Black, with black accents. uh-huh. ;-D

Huh?
Gold and/or white would be the accent colors for those bikes.

Ron

maxo said:

jj said:

I've asked for them several times. Once I specified 'salmon' kool pads and
they put normal black Kool pads on. They won't even order them for me -
they tell me they're 'hard to get'.

Just get some off of the net and learn to put 'em on yourself.

He can't. The rotten guy at the lousy bike store wouldn't show him EXACTLY
where the adjusters are.

Besides, a guy who can't tell if there's any brake pad left has NO business
removing and installing the things. Think about this for a moment.

Ron.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:49:41 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

maxo said:

jj said:

I've asked for them several times. Once I specified 'salmon' kool pads and
they put normal black Kool pads on. They won't even order them for me -
they tell me they're 'hard to get'.

Just get some off of the net and learn to put 'em on yourself.

He can't. The rotten guy at the lousy bike store wouldn't show him EXACTLY
where the adjusters are.

Besides, a guy who can't tell if there's any brake pad left has NO business
removing and installing the things. Think about this for a moment.

Ron.

Ron, thanks for your comments. All of them seem fair. I'll look at my
attitude, also.

Just one thing...I can't see very well, close up things. Have astigmatism,
myopia and my right eye is slightly double vision. This is why I can't
'see' certain things that I 'know' a little about.

Please forgive any ignorance, I'm trying to learn. Also I did get a little
too hot under the collar. The wrench -has- been nice to me, has been pissy
and has apologized. I do like the guy. Mostly I get frustrated.

Insight taken.

Best,
jj

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:46:44 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Okay, so in addition to asking for instruction in how to do things you'll never
do, you've got a trick question or two. You want them to treat you as if you
know what you're talking about, but they better not ask you for information you
should have.

Sigh. Yeah, guilty. Don't we all have a little bit of this 'knowledge in
the abstract sense' but lacking what the wrench might know from experience.
Point taken.

Quoted message said:

If YOU were a "-professional-" wrench you'd have starved to death years ago, so
what's with this "I'd -always-" [censored]. Are you saying that you, the guy who
wanted lessons in brake adjustment can't be trusted to even know how much air
goes in your own tires.

Guilty. haha. Yeah, I'd have starved in a week...by this post I was over
the top.

Quoted message said:

See, I don't know this mechanic, maybe he is incompetent, maybe he wanted to
know from you if you had any bloody clue how much air should go into the tire
before considering it a problem. Maybe he didn't have his glasses handy and has
a hard time reading black on black. I don't know, but you ain't selling me.

See later post about upclose vision on my part.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do miss my Rapid Transit shop in Chicago. I walked in for the first
time and asked: "I want a modern version of an English three speed." The
saleslady replied: "Is black ok?". *grin* Now that's my kind of place.

Black, with black accents. uh-huh. ;-D

Huh?
Gold and/or white would be the accent colors for those bikes.

I was teasing.

jj

Quoted message said:

Ron

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:46:44 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Okay, so in addition to asking for instruction in how to do things you'll never
do, you've got a trick question or two. You want them to treat you as if you
know what you're talking about, but they better not ask you for information you
should have.

Sigh. Yeah, guilty. Don't we all have a little bit of this 'knowledge in
the abstract sense' but lacking what the wrench might know from experience.
Point taken.

Quoted message said:

If YOU were a "-professional-" wrench you'd have starved to death years ago, so
what's with this "I'd -always-" [censored]. Are you saying that you, the guy who
wanted lessons in brake adjustment can't be trusted to even know how much air
goes in your own tires.

Guilty. haha. Yeah, I'd have starved in a week...by this post I was over
the top.

Quoted message said:

See, I don't know this mechanic, maybe he is incompetent, maybe he wanted to
know from you if you had any bloody clue how much air should go into the tire
before considering it a problem. Maybe he didn't have his glasses handy and has
a hard time reading black on black. I don't know, but you ain't selling me.

See later post about upclose vision on my part.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do miss my Rapid Transit shop in Chicago. I walked in for the first
time and asked: "I want a modern version of an English three speed." The
saleslady replied: "Is black ok?". *grin* Now that's my kind of place.

Black, with black accents. uh-huh. ;-D

Huh?
Gold and/or white would be the accent colors for those bikes.

I was teasing.

jj

Quoted message said:

Ron

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:33:25 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I dunno about that, we got jj here who demands to be shown in detail how to
adjust a brake. The adjusters are either at the lever, the cable stop or the
caliper and if someone can't figure that out he can't be trusted to make the
adjustment. Now personally, I agree with you that people can and should
generally be presumed competent. But in this case jj, the fellow who can't cope
with some debris in a brake pad or tell whether or not it is worn away wants
lessons in brake adjustment, that sounds to me like a guy who wants to be
entertained by the tech. IOW a timewaster of the first order.

Nope. Though I can see where you might imagine this. I'm in and out quickly
as possible. I don't like driving the bike to the shop. If I go it's very
reluctantly, and I'm out of there as soon as possible. I am a little
paranoid about my bike working ok, b/c I'm not able to see upclose very
well.

Quoted message said:

Now, his shop is handling him poorly, true. But remember, we're only getting one
side of the story. The store owner walked away from a man writing a check to
converse with a fellow perusing waterbottles? Hmmmmm. Once again we're talking
about a guy who wants a detailed explanation of how to make an adjustment he
will never perform.

The Performance bike shop guys have a 20 point check list 'have shown
customer how to remove a tire', 'have shown customer how to adjust
brakes'...and so on. I do expect the guy to show some attention to me if
I'm buying a bike, even if it is a 600 bike. I know the margin is low on
those. Gotta start somewhere - think it's only fair to expect the owner to
spend a little time with you when you first get the bike, even if it's not
a high-end roadbike. After all, maybe you'll come back in a year and get
something more worthy. ;-)

I figure if I'm shown things repeatedly and keep reading maybe I'll be able
to do my own adjustments. I'm a little bit technophobic about changing
anything on the bike, I admit. You -can- screw things up if you're not
careful, and I don't want to do that.

Quoted message said:

(jj, not getting down on you, but really, that's what I read in your post)

'S-OK. I appreciate the insight.

jj

jj said:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:49:41 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

maxo said:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 22:23:34 -0500, jj wrote:

> I've asked for them several times. Once I specified 'salmon' kool pads and
> they put normal black Kool pads on. They won't even order them for me -
> they tell me they're 'hard to get'.

Just get some off of the net and learn to put 'em on yourself.

He can't. The rotten guy at the lousy bike store wouldn't show him EXACTLY
where the adjusters are.

Besides, a guy who can't tell if there's any brake pad left has NO business
removing and installing the things. Think about this for a moment.

Ron.

Ron, thanks for your comments. All of them seem fair. I'll look at my
attitude, also.

Just one thing...I can't see very well, close up things. Have astigmatism,
myopia and my right eye is slightly double vision. This is why I can't
'see' certain things that I 'know' a little about.

Please forgive any ignorance, I'm trying to learn. Also I did get a little
too hot under the collar. The wrench -has- been nice to me, has been pissy
and has apologized. I do like the guy. Mostly I get frustrated.

Insight taken.

Best,

Thanks.

I was over harsh here. I work in retail electronics repair and get to carefully
shut my mouth at customer quirks. I do tend to vent on threads like this.

Obviously, your Trek shop has a problem. You may be a PITA customer, but you ARE
a regular customer. That the crew is not enthusiastic about helping you (I did
read you tip the tech) shows that management is really screwing themselves over
and does not deserve your support.

And I do think it is a management issue, if it were just the mechanics they'd be
more consistent (you tip). What you and I don't know is how much time pressure
that wrench is under. Does his boss know about the tips and see that as a sign
that the wrench is sweethearting you? Does he catch hell for "hanging out and
talking" when he "should be working." Maybe he shouldn't show you how to do
things so you'll come back for repairs. Either that or maybe the guy just has
the sort of people skills you find among bench techs - I don't know bike
wrenches, but suspect a geekish streak would not be a disqualification.

Same with the request for Kool Stops. Some businesses just don't handle special
orders well and employees will try hard to avoid them.

Anyway, apparently you've been with that shop a long time and feel it would be
right to tell them how they've lost your business, or give them a chance to get
their priorities back in order. Sounds right to me. Hell, just email them a link
to this thread in google if you'd rather not talk to 'em.

Anyway, thanks for being understanding of my early day crankiness.

Ron