Merlin Frame Alignment. question

Quoted message said:

Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame table and measure the rest of it? Any
advice would be wonderful. Andrew

Put it on a real table. Phil Brown

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
(the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame table
and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful.

At merlin prices, I would insist on a straight frame.
-------------
Alex

In article <[email hidden]>,

andrew said:

I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
(the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame table
and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful.

Putting it on the table would be a great idea, but if the rear triangle is really out 3.9mm then you
already know you need to send it back, and you don't really require a proper alignment table to
determine that.

--Paul

Quoted message said:

I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
(the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame
table and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful.

If you're talking about the Park alignment tool that has the open square box design, I would not
trust it for meaningful results. It's too susceptible to damage over time from twisting. If your
frame is really that far out of alignment, a simple string test will verify it. Just tie a piece of
string from one dropout, up around the headtube, and back to the other. Measure the difference
beween the string and the seat tube on each side and compare. Even this isn't the best way to do it,
since it really doesn't matter if the seat tube is perfectly centered to a mm with respect to the
rest of the bike, and if it's off, that will make it appear that the frame's out of alignment. If
we're defining out of alignment as a condition in which the front & rear wheels don't track each
other perfectly, neither a string test nor the Park tool will do the job. However, the string will
at least make sure you're in the ballpark.

This brings up an interesting point though. What *is* the definition of proper frame alignment? What
are the various things to be considered that actually have something to do with the way it handles &
shifts gears?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
(the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame
table and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful. Andrew

andrew said:

I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
(the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame
table and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful.

Wait for them to get you a straight one before you accept delivery. 4mm is a lot on a new
frame nowadays.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

astaft-<< I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park
alignment gauge (the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of
alignment, the rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a
real frame table and measure the rest of it? >><BR><BR>

Is this a trick question?

This is a NEW frameset? and almost 4mm out of alignment?

YGBSM...get a new frameset, period, not align this one but a new one. ACG ought to be ashamed to let
this one leave w/o checking it.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

This brings up an interesting point though. What *is* the definition of proper frame alignment?

The ability to easily ride it without hands on the bars.

Quoted message said:

Is this a trick question?

This is a NEW frameset? and almost 4mm out of alignment?

Which is why I suspect the tools, and use thereof. If they're using the Park tool I'm thinking of,
it can be wildly inaccurate. I should look it up in the catalog... ok, there it is, the [censored]-2.
Actually a slight improvement over the one we have (probably an [censored]-1?) but still has that awful,
twist-prone open-channel design that accounts for the problems.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040205090826.10862.00000209@mb-
m10.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

astaft-<< I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the

alignment

Quoted message said:

using the Park alignment gauge (the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It
was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should
I get it put on a real frame table and measure the rest of it? >><BR><BR>

Is this a trick question?

This is a NEW frameset? and almost 4mm out of alignment?

YGBSM...get a new frameset, period, not align this one but a new one. ACG

ought

Quoted message said:

to be ashamed to let this one leave w/o checking it.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Jay Hill said:

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

This brings up an interesting point though. What *is* the definition of proper frame alignment?

The ability to easily ride it without hands on the bars.

My ability to easily ride without hands on the bars has been changed simply by replacing the
knobbies on my mt. bike.

I had some Ritchie Megabites(?) a long time ago and could not ride sans hands. Change the tires and
instantly had no problems!

...Yes, the axels were properly seated in the dropouts. Had them in and out countless time during
the life of the tires. Had the tires off and on a bunch of times too from fixing flats.

Proper frame alignment is: Everything on the bike is the proper length, angle, diameter,
straightness, parallel... within the manufacturer's tolerance. Yes, I didn't really *say*
anything, but what I said is correct and accurate for ANYTHING manufactured. There is some
specification and if the thingy is not in spec, then it is out of "alignment", to use the word in
this thread and context.
--
Skuke Reverse the domain name to send email

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

astaft-<< I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic

measured the

Quoted message said:

alignment

Quoted message said:

using the Park alignment gauge (the one that checks from

head tube to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment,

the rear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable,

should I get it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

put on a real frame table and measure the rest of it?

Quoted message said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

"]news:[email hidden]... Is this a trick question?

Quoted message said:

This is a NEW frameset? and almost 4mm out of alignment? YGBSM...get a new frameset, period, not
align this one

but a new one. ACG

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

Which is why I suspect the tools, and use thereof. If they're using the Park tool I'm thinking of,
it can be wildly inaccurate. I should look it up in the catalog... ok, there it is, the [censored]-2.
Actually a slight improvement over the one we have (probably an [censored]-1?) but still has that awful,
twist-prone open-channel design that accounts for the problems. ought

Quoted message said:

to be ashamed to let this one leave w/o checking it.

Yes the Park [censored]* is flimsy. All tools of that design ( even my own!) are.

If the operator takes care to hold the tool just at the head tube and at the seat tube, it's plenty
accurate. If it's held somewhere in the middle, the tool's flex will give an inaccurate reading.

* Did somebody at Park get a bonus for naming it?
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

Which is why I suspect the tools, and use thereof. If they're using the Park tool I'm thinking
of, it can be wildly inaccurate. I should look it up in the catalog... ok, there it is, the [censored]-
2. Actually a slight improvement over the one we have (probably an [censored]-1?) but still has that
awful, twist-prone open-channel design that accounts for the problems. ought

Quoted message said:

to be ashamed to let this one leave w/o checking it.

Yes the Park [censored]* is flimsy. All tools of that design ( even my own!) are.

If the operator takes care to hold the tool just at the head tube and at the seat tube, it's plenty
accurate. If it's held somewhere in the middle, the tool's flex will give an inaccurate reading.

I've had no obvious flex-related issue with my own [censored]-2. It seems to me that even if the tool's
body is slightly twisted it would still measure properly (since both surfaces it rests on are
supposed to be parallel). I've gotten very repeatable measurements with my own [censored]-2 over the years.

Quoted message said:

* Did somebody at Park get a bonus for naming it?

Very un-PC, to be sure. There are other tools that would be less PC with that name, but I'm not
going there... ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Hickey said:

A Muzi said:

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes the Park [censored]* is flimsy. All tools of that design ( even my own!) are.
* Did somebody at Park get a bonus for naming it?

Very un-PC, to be sure. There are other tools that would be less PC with that name, but I'm not
going there... ;-)

You're thinking of the head cup remover, RT-1

parktool.comRT 1.shtmlOpen ↗

Ooh... "Click on image for enlarged picture of tool in use"*...that link may not be safe for work.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article said:

A Muzi said:

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes the Park [censored]* is flimsy. All tools of that design ( even my own!) are.
* Did somebody at Park get a bonus for naming it?

Very un-PC, to be sure. There are other tools that would be less PC with that name, but I'm not
going there... ;-)

You're thinking of the head cup remover, RT-1

parktool.comRT 1.shtmlOpen ↗

Ooh... "Click on image for enlarged picture of tool in use"*...that link may not be safe for work.

It's pretty explicit all right. They show the full insertion and everything.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't tell me how hard you work. Tell me how much you get done. -- James J. Ling