Merckx BB BSA thread? (if so, since when??)

Derk said:

A friend of mine dropped by today and explained to me that the LBS hadn't
been able to mount the BB he bought in advance for his new Merckx
Cyclocross frameset, since they claimed it was BSA thread in stead of Ital.
thread.

My guess is that there was just some paint inside the BB, since I never
heard of BSA thread in Merckx frames or am I mistaken?

Why on earth would there be Italian thread in a Belgian bike? Or did
Merckx emigrate at soem point?

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Why on earth would there be Italian thread in a Belgian bike? Or did
Merckx emigrate at soem point?

I believe Eddy Merckx was influenced by Ugo de Rosa and at least
traditionally his frames had Italian style bottom bracket shells. Newer
models might be BSA. Merckx isn't the only non-Italian manufacturer to
use Italian BB threading either - At least the Swedish manufacturer
Crescent was another.

-as

Jasper Janssen said:

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:21:48 +0200, Derk <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Why on earth would there be Italian thread in a Belgian bike? Or did
Merckx emigrate at soem point?

...............because de Rosa helped him set up the factory he has now. I
have 2 Merckx frames and both have italian thread.

BTW: you'll be surprised to learn this, but I have an old Jan Janssen SLX
frame that has italian thread too!

Greets, Derk

Derk said:

Hi,

A friend of mine dropped by today and explained to me that the LBS hadn't
been able to mount the BB he bought in advance for his new Merckx
Cyclocross frameset, since they claimed it was BSA thread in stead of Ital.
thread.

My guess is that there was just some paint inside the BB, since I never
heard of BSA thread in Merckx frames or am I mistaken?

Greets, Derk

I just assembled a 2006 Merckx cross bike and it had as all do, Italian
threading.

If it were english then the english cup would just slide into the BB
shell. The bike shop needs to get a clue.

Jasper Janssen said:

Derk said:

A friend of mine dropped by today and explained to me that the LBS hadn't
been able to mount the BB he bought in advance for his new Merckx
Cyclocross frameset, since they claimed it was BSA thread in stead of Ital.
thread.

My guess is that there was just some paint inside the BB, since I never
heard of BSA thread in Merckx frames or am I mistaken?

Why on earth would there be Italian thread in a Belgian bike? Or did
Merckx emigrate at soem point?

Jasper

I guess because Belgium threading is so scarce?????......Merckx's are
all Italian threading, have always been, are now.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I guess because Belgium threading is so scarce?????

:-))

Derk

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

If it were english then the english cup would just slide into the BB
shell. The bike shop needs to get a clue.

I told you they're idiots......

They were of course too lazy to cut the thread and just sent the customer
away, so he has to come back again, which is another 30 km drive and a
morning he has to take off from work again.

We're speaking about a Pinarello, Colnago, Bianchi, SRAM, Shimano, Campa,
LOOK, Merckx, Willier, American Eagle, Mavic, SIDI etc etc specialist
here.

This is the reason I order my bike parts from a cheap mail order service:
they're so stupid over there, that they force people to pay for the
mistakes they make.(extra trips, broken parts etc.)

Thanks for the answer, Peter,for a moment I feared I was wrong, but I
couldn't imagine Merckx suddenly changed the threading of the bracket.

How did you like the Alu cross frame btw?

Greetings, Derk

Derk said:

Jasper Janssen said:

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:21:48 +0200, Derk <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Why on earth would there be Italian thread in a Belgian bike? Or did
Merckx emigrate at soem point?

..............because de Rosa helped him set up the factory he has now. I
have 2 Merckx frames and both have italian thread.

BTW: you'll be surprised to learn this, but I have an old Jan Janssen SLX
frame that has italian thread too!

He's not a relation, so yes, surprised to learn that. I suppose the root
cause is that back when they started, BSA threading was for heavy
english/dutch roadster parts and Italian had the only good component
manufacturers. Too bad they persist with it, though.

Jasper

Derk said:

We're speaking about a Pinarello, Colnago, Bianchi, SRAM, Shimano, Campa,
LOOK, Merckx, Willier, American Eagle, Mavic, SIDI etc etc specialist
here.

This is the reason I order my bike parts from a cheap mail order service:
they're so stupid over there, that they force people to pay for the
mistakes they make.(extra trips, broken parts etc.)

Don't be shy, name the [censored]. I don't want just recommendations, I want
dis-recommendations as well.

Jasper

I just made a call to the LBS for my friend about his Merckx: "yes, you're
right. Our mistake. Indeed it seems to be Italian thread".

We're really not lucky we can only go there for repair jobs.

Greets, Derk

Derk said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

If it were english then the english cup would just slide into the BB
shell. The bike shop needs to get a clue.

I told you they're idiots......

They were of course too lazy to cut the thread and just sent the customer
away, so he has to come back again, which is another 30 km drive and a
morning he has to take off from work again.

We're speaking about a Pinarello, Colnago, Bianchi, SRAM, Shimano, Campa,
LOOK, Merckx, Willier, American Eagle, Mavic, SIDI etc etc specialist
here.

We have a bike shop like this here in the 'republic' as well...lots of
keen stuff but not a wrench among them. I just re-did a Scott with
Record, for a creaking BB...Not a drop of torque or grease. they took
it outta the box and handed it to him...with the resulting problems...

Quoted message said:

This is the reason I order my bike parts from a cheap mail order service:
they're so stupid over there, that they force people to pay for the
mistakes they make.(extra trips, broken parts etc.)

Thanks for the answer, Peter,for a moment I feared I was wrong, but I
couldn't imagine Merckx suddenly changed the threading of the bracket.

How did you like the Alu cross frame btw?

Nice piece of gear. Aluminum and not a lot of $($1100) cosidering it is
a 'true' cross frame, not a touring frame made to race with. Integrated
HS for 2006, dummm idea, IMO, for a cross frame.

Derk said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

If it were english then the english cup would just slide into the BB
shell. The bike shop needs to get a clue.

I told you they're idiots......

They were of course too lazy to cut the thread and just sent the customer
away, so he has to come back again, which is another 30 km drive and a
morning he has to take off from work again.

We're speaking about a Pinarello, Colnago, Bianchi, SRAM, Shimano, Campa,
LOOK, Merckx, Willier, American Eagle, Mavic, SIDI etc etc specialist
here.

This is the reason I order my bike parts from a cheap mail order service:
they're so stupid over there, that they force people to pay for the
mistakes they make.(extra trips, broken parts etc.)

Thanks for the answer, Peter,for a moment I feared I was wrong, but I
couldn't imagine Merckx suddenly changed the threading of the bracket.

Its not that unusual for an established bike maker to switch threading.
Calfee changed from Italian bottom bracket threading to British a
couple years ago. Calfee is a smaller operation than Merckx but they
apparently got the clue that in the USA, their main market, British
threading is what customers expect and want. Mr. Chisolm recommends
Calfee carbon frames frequently. I'm somewhat shocked and surprised he
did not immediately break all relations with Calfee when they switched
from Italian to British threading.

Quoted message said:

How did you like the Alu cross frame btw?

Greetings, Derk

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Nice piece of gear. Aluminum and not a lot of $($1100)

Here it's 550 Euro's, including FSA headset and cable hanger.

Quoted message said:

Integrated HS for 2006, dummm idea, IMO, for a cross frame.

I saw that. We agree on that. I think IH are always a bad idea.

I don't know if it's the fact that it has a Non IH, but my MX Leader never
has any play in the bearings of the headset, whilst I had to adjust play of
bikes with IH every 1000 km or so.

You won't believe it, but the LBS managed to damage the chain stay of the
Merckx cross bike before even doing anything constructive with it: I saw a
piece of paint that was missing and a small dent on the right side
chainstay. Nice job!

Greetings, Derk

Quoted message said:

Its not that unusual for an established bike maker to switch threading.
Calfee changed from Italian bottom bracket threading to British a
couple years ago. Calfee is a smaller operation than Merckx but they
apparently got the clue that in the USA, their main market, British
threading is what customers expect and want.

They used Italian because it was what Lemond preferred, when the
Calfees were 'carbonframe'. They haven't been Italian for perhaps a
decade. They switched when they used up all the BB shell stock for
Italian. English threading is NOT 'what cutomers expect or want'.
NOBODY decides to NOT buy a frame from us cuz it's Italian threaded
rather than brit threading. NO advantage when compared to a properly
installed BB. It was morew for wrenching idiots than for a design
problem with Italian or French threading.

Mr. Chisolm recommends

Quoted message said:

Calfee carbon frames frequently. I'm somewhat shocked and surprised he
did not immediately break all relations with Calfee when they switched
from Italian to British threading.

It's ChisHolm, ..and for poor wrenches, British threading is essential.
For the rest of us that have the 'clue', it really doesn't matter. Most
customers don't even know what a BB is, much less the threading of it.

If my Mercks had a brit BB, I would still buy it and ride it...

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

If my Mercks had a brit BB, I would still buy it and ride it...

And if it would have Shimano parts ? :-)

Greets, Derk

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

They used Italian because it was what Lemond preferred, when the
Calfees were 'carbonframe'. They haven't been Italian for perhaps a
decade. They switched when they used up all the BB shell stock for
Italian. English threading is NOT 'what cutomers expect or want'.
NOBODY decides to NOT buy a frame from us cuz it's Italian threaded

How about vice versa?

Quoted message said:

rather than brit threading. NO advantage when compared to a properly
installed BB. It was morew for wrenching idiots than for a design
problem with Italian or French threading.

The lack of left hand threads *is* a design problem, it's just one that
can be safely ignored by compensdating for it during installation. I mean,
sure, you can tighten that cup enough without stripping the threads, if
you know what you're doing, but there are no real advantages to living
with the problem. The Italian BB dimensions (longer and thinner, right?)
may or may not be an advantage (but that's got nothing inherent to do with
the RH threads), but simply having both sides with the same threading buys
you nothing, except the ability to use asymmetric BBs the wrong way
around.

Quoted message said:

Mr. Chisolm recommends

Quoted message said:

Calfee carbon frames frequently. I'm somewhat shocked and surprised he
did not immediately break all relations with Calfee when they switched
from Italian to British threading.

It's ChisHolm, ..and for poor wrenches, British threading is essential.
For the rest of us that have the 'clue', it really doesn't matter. Most
customers don't even know what a BB is, much less the threading of it.

If my Mercks had a brit BB, I would still buy it and ride it...

I'd put it the other way: I wouldn't kick an Italian-bracketed frame out
of bed for eating crackers, but I'd prefer the more common and thus
cheaper variant, barring any overriding reasons.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

They used Italian because it was what Lemond preferred, when the
Calfees were 'carbonframe'. They haven't been Italian for perhaps a
decade. They switched when they used up all the BB shell stock for
Italian. English threading is NOT 'what cutomers expect or want'.
NOBODY decides to NOT buy a frame from us cuz it's Italian threaded

How about vice versa?

Nobody asks for an Italian threaded bicycle either. It is as important
as things like oil pan capacity of a car somebody is looking to buy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rather than brit threading. NO advantage when compared to a properly
installed BB. It was morew for wrenching idiots than for a design
problem with Italian or French threading.

The lack of left hand threads *is* a design problem, it's just one that
can be safely ignored by compensdating for it during installation. I mean,
sure, you can tighten that cup enough without stripping the threads, if
you know what you're doing, but there are no real advantages to living
with the problem. The Italian BB dimensions (longer and thinner, right?)

Wider, bigger inside diameter and often a thicker BB shell to
compensate for the larger ID.

Quoted message said:

may or may not be an advantage (but that's got nothing inherent to do with
the RH threads), but simply having both sides with the same threading buys
you nothing, except the ability to use asymmetric BBs the wrong way
around.

Quoted message said:

Mr. Chisolm recommends

Quoted message said:

Calfee carbon frames frequently. I'm somewhat shocked and surprised he
did not immediately break all relations with Calfee when they switched
from Italian to British threading.

It's ChisHolm, ..and for poor wrenches, British threading is essential.
For the rest of us that have the 'clue', it really doesn't matter. Most
customers don't even know what a BB is, much less the threading of it.

If my Mercks had a brit BB, I would still buy it and ride it...

I'd put it the other way: I wouldn't kick an Italian-bracketed frame out
of bed for eating crackers, but I'd prefer the more common and thus
cheaper variant, barring any overriding reasons.

Prefer it then, but like tubulars, it is still a viable design for
today's modern bicycle. There are dozens of stoopid 'designs' now
found on a bicycle, Italian threading is lost in the noise.

Derk said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

If my Mercks had a brit BB, I would still buy it and ride it...

And if it would have Shimano parts ? :-)

Greets, Derk

I would rather ride this Meckx with Sora than many, many other
'whizbang' frames with Record....The frame is the heart of the bicycle,
it's 'soul', what makes it what it is...the rest is really minor in
comparison.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Prefer it then, but like tubulars, it is still a viable design for
today's modern bicycle. There are dozens of stoopid 'designs' now
found on a bicycle, Italian threading is lost in the noise.

I suppose that's fair enough.

Jasper