Meet Melissa Arrington

On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
Bill C

Bill C said:

On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Dumbass -

Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
executed were innocent?

The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
will always make errors.

As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

In article <a3c9c19f-bb00-4227-b98c-
[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Or better yet, give her a bike and have some ass run her down.

Eye for an eye, and all that....

-Bob

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Bill C said:

On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Quoted message said:

Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Dumbass -

Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
executed were innocent?

The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
will always make errors.

As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
that aren't available.
Hope someone on the inside kicks her ass.
Bill C

Bill C said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Quoted message said:

Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
executed were innocent?

Quoted message said:

The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
will always make errors.

Quoted message said:

As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

Quoted message said:

thanks,

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni.

I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
 They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
families.  I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
that aren't available.

Dumbass -

Did you miss the part about a not unsubstantial minority of the people
being innocent?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Bill C said:

On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
executed were innocent?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
will always make errors.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thanks,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni.

Quoted message said:

I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
 They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
families.  I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
that aren't available.

Dumbass -

Did you miss the part about a not unsubstantial minority of the people
being innocent?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seems to me the system worked. They were cleared before killed. How
about all those who are eligible for capital punishment who are let
loose to kill again? Show me a single proven execution of an innocent
in the modern era.
Bill C
Bill C

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Bill C said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to
me.
again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring
for
her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the
highest
standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion
of
its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty
in
1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Quoted message said:

Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
executed were innocent?

Quoted message said:

The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past,
they
will always make errors.

Quoted message said:

As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

Quoted message said:

thanks,

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni.

I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
for them to come escort me off for a warm shower ..........

Yes, I'm sure Bubba will pass you the soap along with his, erm, top
tube. You've got to be kidding.

Phil H

Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Bill C said:

On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]"
> <[email hidden]>
> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to
> me.
> again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring
> for
> her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the
highest
standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion
of
its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty
in
1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
executed were innocent?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past,
they
will always make errors.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thanks,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni.

Quoted message said:

I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
for them to come escort me off for a warm shower ..........

Yes, I'm sure Bubba will pass you the soap along with his, erm, top
tube. You've got to be kidding.

Phil H- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dumbass, what's better freezing to death because the shelters that
haven't closed are full, or sitting in county lock-up?
Bill C

Bill C said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
> > wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caringfor
> > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
> standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
> its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
> 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> executed were innocent?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
> will always make errors.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> thanks,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> K. Gringioni.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
 They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
families.  I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
that aren't available.

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Did you miss the part about a not unsubstantial minority of the people
being innocent?

Quoted message said:

thanks,

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Seems to me the system worked. They were cleared before killed.

Dumbass -

Errr . . . statistically it's almost a certainty that given the
substantial number that were cleared, there were also some innocents
that were executed.

We don't know how many because once they are executed, efforts to
prove their innocence stop. Here's one case where it did not:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3472872.html

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Bill C said:

Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...
On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]"
> > <[email hidden]>
> > wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to
> > me.
> > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring
> > for
> > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the
> highest
> standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion
> of
> its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty
> in
> 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> executed were innocent?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past,
> they
> will always make errors.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> thanks,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> K. Gringioni.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
for them to come escort me off for a warm shower ..........

Quoted message said:

Yes, I'm sure Bubba will pass you the soap along with his, erm, top
tube. You've got to be kidding.

Quoted message said:

Phil H- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Dumbass, what's better freezing to death because the shelters that
haven't closed are full, or sitting in county lock-up?

Dumbass -

Most homeless people are either mentally ill or drug addicts or both.
I live in an urban area and parts of town are teeming w/ them. The
money they claim that they need for food is used for drugs. They can
get free food at a shelter here that has a generous endowment. The
shelter provides food and shelter for them if they choose to take
advantage of it. Most of them choose not to. They sleep on the
streets, panhandle for drug money, [censored] on the sidewalk.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Bill C said:

On Jan 24, 5:49 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
> > > wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain tome.
> > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
> > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
> > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penaltyin
> > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > executed were innocent?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
> > will always make errors.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > thanks,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > K. Gringioni.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
>  They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> families.  I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
> Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
> that aren't available.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did you miss the part about a not unsubstantial minority of the people
being innocent?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thanks,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Seems to me the system worked. They were cleared before killed.

Dumbass -

Errr . . . statistically it's almost a certainty that given the
substantial number that were cleared, there were also some innocents
that were executed.

We don't know how many because once they are executed, efforts to
prove their innocence stop. Here's one case where it did not:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3472872.html

thanks,

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do nasty
[censored] to innocents. Lots more of those. New stories almost every day.
What I love is them turning folks loose when everyone testifies that
they are high risk to re-offend, and they do.
Any sympathy for all those victims? How about a law change to hold
those who caused the release as accessories to the subsequent crimes
in those cases?
Bill C

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
executed were innocent?

The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
will always make errors.

Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and clearly
as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the level of proof
must be complete before someone can qualify for the death penalty. Though
unlike you I do believe that the majority of capital punishment cases do
meet those standards. You don't seem to understand that the majority of
people on death row have murdered people in front of others or a camera etc.

Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know beyond
the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other crimes as bad. To
force the citizens of this country to support them for decades is counter
productive.

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
people in front of others or a camera etc.

Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
for decades is counter productive.

Worth reading:

http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/

Abridged version for free:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact

--
Bill Asher

In article <[email hidden]>, William Asher <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
people in front of others or a camera etc.

Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
for decades is counter productive.

Worth reading:

http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/

Abridged version for free:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact

__________________________
"In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides.

"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, because it avoids the
expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
__________________________

That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his last sentence).

--
tanx,
Howard

Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
But I've already got a pitchfork...

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>, William Asher <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
people in front of others or a camera etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
for decades is counter productive.

Quoted message said:

Worth reading:

Quoted message said:

http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/

Quoted message said:

Abridged version for free:

Quoted message said:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact

__________________________
   "In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides..

"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, because it avoids the
expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
__________________________

That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his last sentence).

--
                              tanx,
                               Howard

Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
                     But I've already got a pitchfork...

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That makes it clear there's way too much room for legal maneuvering.
Bill C

Bill C said:

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>, William Asher <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
> clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
> level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
> death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
> capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
> understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
> people in front of others or a camera etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
> beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
> crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
> for decades is counter productive.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Worth reading:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Abridged version for free:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact

Quoted message said:

__________________________
   "In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides.

Quoted message said:

"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, because it avoids the
expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
__________________________

Quoted message said:

That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his last sentence).

Quoted message said:

--
                              tanx,
                               Howard

Quoted message said:

Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
                     But I've already got a pitchfork...

Quoted message said:

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

That makes it clear there's way too much room for legal maneuvering.

Dumbass -

If there was no legal maneuvering, we'd have killed 120+ more
innocents and would have never known about it.

Why are you so eager to execute people and yet so eager to let dopers
off the hook?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Bill C said:

On Jan 24, 6:47 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]....
On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "[email hidden]"
> > > <[email hidden]>
> > > wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to
> > > me.
> > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring
> > > for
> > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the
> > highest
> > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion
> > of
> > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty
> > in
> > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > executed were innocent?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past,
> > they
> > will always make errors.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > thanks,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > K. Gringioni.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets..
> Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> for them to come escort me off for a warm shower ..........

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, I'm sure Bubba will pass you the soap along with his, erm, top
tube. You've got to be kidding.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Phil H- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Dumbass, what's better freezing to death because the shelters that
haven't closed are full, or sitting in county lock-up?

Dumbass -

Most homeless people are either mentally ill or drug addicts or both.
I live in an urban area and parts of town are teeming w/ them. The
money they claim that they need for food is used for drugs. They can
get free food at a shelter here that has a generous endowment. The
shelter provides food and shelter for them if they choose to take
advantage of it. Most of them choose not to. They sleep on the
streets, panhandle for drug money, [censored] on the sidewalk.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Obviously your shelters are better funded than ours, and your climate
is definitely friendlier. When it's -30 wind chill and the shelters
are full, or closed, including the VA which, maybe, has 25% of the
beds it needs people are screwed. Most of our shelters live month to
month pretty much, and depend in large part on State aid money which
is pretty scarce these days. The space that's really short is for
battered women/families who don't have somewhere safe to go.
Some of our friends do lots of work in this direction, including one,
used to be, semi regular who put together a run/walk for the Mayor
here to benefit these folks. It's been a huge success, in large part
thanks to the huge effort put in to make it a great event.
Bill C

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Bill C said:

On Jan 25, 2:36 am, Howard Kveck <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, William Asher <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
>news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
> > clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
> > level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
> > death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
> > capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
> > understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
> > people in front of others or a camera etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> > maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
> > beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
> > crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
> > for decades is counter productive.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Worth reading:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Abridged version for free:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

__________________________
   "In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, becauseit avoids the
expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
__________________________

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his lastsentence).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--
                              tanx,
                               Howard

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now it's raining pitchforks andwomen,
                     But I've already got a pitchfork...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

remove YOUR SHOES to reply,ok?- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

That makes it clear there's way too much room for legal maneuvering.

Dumbass -

If there was no legal maneuvering, we'd have killed 120+ more
innocents and would have never known about it.

Why are you so eager to execute people and yet so eager to let dopers
off the hook?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Because the legal system is significantly less broken, and we would
only be talking the most solidly guilty, after appeal.
Why are you so quick to put them back on the street to re-offend?
Bill C

William Asher said:

Worth reading:

http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/

Abridged version for free:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact

Bill,

Thanks for posting this..... the second link was very well worth the
reading.

Bill