Meatloaf en croute?

Andy Katz said:

I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.

Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
control on the menu).

Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

Andy Katz

I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.

Andy Katz

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 08:00:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Andy Katz?

Quoted message said:

I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.

Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any

You "trailed at 24"? What the hell is that, Andy? It probably fits in the
thread about most-hated phrases. :-)

Quoted message said:

meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
control on the menu).

Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

I wouldn't say it's common, but certainly doable. I've seen it before, but
never eaten it. Unlike Beef Wellington, however, the meatloaf would need
to be cooked before encasing in the pastry. If you didn't, it would
probably end up a greasy mess.

More common, of course, is a cooked, hot meatloaf frosted and decorated
with well-seasoned mashed potatoes, then browned nicely in the oven.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 08:08:59p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it PastaLover?

Quoted message said:

Andy Katz said:

I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.

Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
control on the menu).

Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

Andy Katz

I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

Meatloaf en croute is certainly none of the above. Each of them is unto
themselves. I think Andy is picturing a meatloaf made with at least a
pound or two of meat, not anything hand-held.

Having said that, I absolutely love Cornish pasties. Empanadas are pretty
good, too.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

Andy Katz said:

I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.

Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
control on the menu).

Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

Try googling "meatloaf en croute". There's only 19 hits
but it appears a recipe by that name appeared many years
ago, and that it's on the menu of a comfort food restaurant
in Los Angeles.

Your blue cheese may be an original touch though...

Steve

Quoted message said:

Andy Katz

Andy Katz said:

[snip] Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

No. If it appeared anywhere it would be rare. Probably because it's a
bad idea. A good meatloaf is made of two or three different ground
meats, preferably fatty ones. A good one produces *a lot* of fat while
it's cooking. How can you possibly wrap such a thing in pastry, and
why in the world would you want to? If you want something crusty with
your meatloaf, wait till the second day and toast the bread for your
meatloaf sandwich. -aem

Andy Katz said:

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.

Andy Katz

Which is a ground meat dish.... right?

Andy Katz said:

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.

Andy Katz

After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
what it is you're wanting....

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it PastaLover?

Quoted message said:

Andy Katz said:

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.

Andy Katz

After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
what it is you're wanting....

This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring to. Meatloaves
are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).

http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg

Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and baked until the
pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it PastaLover?

Quoted message said:

Andy Katz said:

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something like
>this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry encasing
>a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.

No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.

Andy Katz

After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
what it is you're wanting....

This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring to. Meatloaves
are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).

http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg

Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and baked until the
pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)

Okay. So is the meatloaf cooked before the pastry or at the same time?
If at the same time, it's what I originally described.

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 10:59:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
PastaLover?

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
PastaLover?

Quoted message said:

Andy Katz wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something
>>like this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry
>>encasing a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>
>
>No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>
>Andy Katz

After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
what it is you're wanting....

This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring to.
Meatloaves are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).

http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg

Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and baked until
the pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)

Okay. So is the meatloaf cooked before the pastry or at the same time?
If at the same time, it's what I originally described.

The meatloaf is baked first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again. If
the meatloaf mixture was wrapped in pastry while still raw and then baked,
no doubt the pastry would be burnt and very greasy by the time the meat
inside was cooked. It's the mass of meat that makes the difference. Even
with Beef Wellington (boeuf en croute) made with tenderloin of beef, the
meat is roasted first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again.

What you originally described were various hand-sized meat "pies", not
meatloaves.

I'm not trying to be snotty, but may I ask where you live that you have
never seen or heard of a meatloaf?

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 10:59:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
PastaLover?

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
PastaLover?

Quoted message said:

Andy Katz wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something
>>like this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry
>>encasing a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>
>
>No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>
>Andy Katz

After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
what it is you're wanting....

This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring to.
Meatloaves are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).

http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg

Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and baked until
the pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)

Okay. So is the meatloaf cooked before the pastry or at the same time?
If at the same time, it's what I originally described.

The meatloaf is baked first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again. If
the meatloaf mixture was wrapped in pastry while still raw and then baked,
no doubt the pastry would be burnt and very greasy by the time the meat
inside was cooked. It's the mass of meat that makes the difference. Even
with Beef Wellington (boeuf en croute) made with tenderloin of beef, the
meat is roasted first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again.

What you originally described were various hand-sized meat "pies", not
meatloaves.

I'm not trying to be snotty, but may I ask where you live that you have
never seen or heard of a meatloaf?

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________________________

A chicken in every pot is a *LOT* of chicken!

Andy Katz said:

I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.

Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
control on the menu).

Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

Andy Katz

Would the grease that comes out of the meat loaf be a problem or
could you just cover the top and sides with the dough??? Sharon

Andy Katz <[email hidden]> looking for trouble wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.

Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
control on the menu).

Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

Andy Katz

I did a quick Google search to satisfy my own curiosity on this. I am a big
meat loaf fan even though my meat loaf leaves <cough> much to be desired.
Anything resembling what you describe is called a pate' on the sites I
Googled. I may have put in the wrong search criteria. I have yet to see it
on a menu here in St. Louis.

It sounds interesting and quite good to me. I'm wondering if one would
leave out the tomato sauce as the puff pastry would tend to get too soggy?

Michael

--
....Bacteria: The rear entrance to a cafeteria.

All gramatical errors and misspellings due to Ramsey the cyber kitten. He
now owns all keyboards and computing devices in the household and has the
final say on what is, or is not, posted.
Send email to dog30 at charter dot net

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:59:09 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Okay. So is the meatloaf cooked before the pastry or at the same time?
If at the same time, it's what I originally described.

Oh, I would cook off the meatloaf prior, then do as much of the wrap
as possible a la minute so it avoids getting soggy but doesn't have to
be excessively dry.

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 10:59:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
PastaLover?

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 09:28:39p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
PastaLover?

>Andy Katz wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:08:59 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I think it's called a Jamacian meat pattie, or an empanada, or a meat
>>>pie, or a Cornish pasty... Just about every culture has something
>>>like this, baked or fried, hand-held size or larger, dough or pastry
>>>encasing a mix of ground meat, seasoning, and sometimes veggies.
>>
>>
>>No. I'm talking specifically about meatloaf.
>>
>>Andy Katz
>
>After reading another couple posts, maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly
>what it is you're wanting....
>

This is typical meatloaf, the sort that Andy is referring to.
Meatloaves are generally made with ground meats (beef, pork, veal).

http://natural-beef.com/images/main-meatloaf.jpg

Picture that wrapped entirely in pastry or puff paste and baked until
the pastry is done. (I couldn't find a picture of that.)

Okay. So is the meatloaf cooked before the pastry or at the same time?
If at the same time, it's what I originally described.

The meatloaf is baked first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again. If
the meatloaf mixture was wrapped in pastry while still raw and then baked,
no doubt the pastry would be burnt and very greasy by the time the meat
inside was cooked. It's the mass of meat that makes the difference. Even
with Beef Wellington (boeuf en croute) made with tenderloin of beef, the
meat is roasted first, then wrapped in pastry and baked again.

What you originally described were various hand-sized meat "pies", not
meatloaves.

I'm not trying to be snotty, but may I ask where you live that you have
never seen or heard of a meatloaf?

I've heard of a meatloaf. Grandma used to make a lot of it. ;-)

I just didn't realize what exactly it was that you were talking about. I
was recently in so. Florida and every time I turned around, I was seeing
these Jacmaican meat patty things, so that was naturally what I thought
of when I saw something about ground meat in pastry.

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Wed 07 Dec 2005 08:00:09p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Andy Katz?

Quoted message said:

I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.

Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any

You "trailed at 24"? What the hell is that, Andy? It probably fits in the
thread about most-hated phrases. :-)

Sorry. "Trailed" means to work a shift without pay, either to see if
you'd like to work there, or just want the experience. I *was* looking
for a job, and I liked the place, but the station I'd work was too far
away from the pass, and I can't hear that well, so I'd have a hard
time keeping up with service.

Looks as though ChipShop in Brooklyn is beckoning. I'm trailing there
tonight, but I'd have to be especially inept not to get the job;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
control on the menu).

Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

I wouldn't say it's common, but certainly doable. I've seen it before, but
never eaten it. Unlike Beef Wellington, however, the meatloaf would need
to be cooked before encasing in the pastry. If you didn't, it would
probably end up a greasy mess.

Oh, yes. I'm thinking a solid, finished meatloaf, then some onions, or
other vegetables and a cheese to add moisture but avoid sogginess.

Quoted message said:

More common, of course, is a cooked, hot meatloaf frosted and decorated
with well-seasoned mashed potatoes, then browned nicely in the oven.

Hmmmm;-)

Thanks

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

aem said:

Andy Katz said:

[snip] Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

No. If it appeared anywhere it would be rare. Probably because it's a
bad idea. A good meatloaf is made of two or three different ground
meats, preferably fatty ones. A good one produces *a lot* of fat while
it's cooking. How can you possibly wrap such a thing in pastry, and
why in the world would you want to? If you want something crusty with
your meatloaf, wait till the second day and toast the bread for your
meatloaf sandwich. -aem

I've made meatloaf with pretty much every combination of meat,
including ground turkey. Sometimes I'd grind the meats myself,
sometimes I bought them ground (sorry Shelly;-).

Some of the results were good. But the best meatloaf I ever had was
made of veal, pre-ground. Go figure.

Naturally you're right about the meat not being especially lean, but I
would cook the meatloafs off well before service, wrap them, maybe par
cook them and finish them off a la minute. That ought to reduce the
greasy factor.

Of course, you might be right. It *might* be a bad idea. But many
commercial comfort foods here in NYC combine high and low end
concepts: eg, mac & cheese made with fine imported cheddars. Beef
Wellington is a kind of middle-brow comfort food, the idea of which
might mesh well with low-brow meatloaf.

Or not .....

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

biig said:

Andy Katz said:

I was thinking about ways to serve meatloaf that would avoid
cliche but still validate this American classic. I wasn't thinking of
a true Wellington per se, but rather encasing the meatloaf in puff
pastry with caramelized onions and maybe some blue cheese.

Then I read the NY Times food section ($25 & Under), only to
learn that 24 Prince is doing exactly that. Or was. I *think* I
trailed at 24 a couple weeks ago, and they weren't doing any
meatloafs, or other species of comfort foods the review alluded to
(they don't have a chef right now, so there might not be the degree of
control on the menu).

Either way, is meatloaf en croute common, has it been
appearing in comfort food venues?

Andy Katz

Would the grease that comes out of the meat loaf be a problem or
could you just cover the top and sides with the dough??? Sharon

Shouldn't be, because all you're doing is re-heating the already
cooked meat, cooking the pastry and melting the cheese or whatever
filling you chose.

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl