Meat baked in pastry

David Hare-Scott said:

I am talking about meat baked in pastry where you eat the pastry as well as the roast meat.

Taking the example of baking beef in pastry, such as Beef Wellington, all the recipes that I have
seen require the meat to be partly baked first, then coated with fairly dry ingrediants, wrapped
in pastry and baked again. Also it is recommended that you rest the packet after taking it out of
the oven as one does with a plain non-pastry roast. I want to extend this method to other meats
and flavours but with the objective that the meat must be cooked to the correct degree and juicy,
and the pastry must be cooked properly and be crisp and flaky.

We like our roast beef fairly rare. I have had Beef Wellington in restaurants and too often the
meat was overdone, the bottom of the pastry was soggy, or both. Is it possible using this method
to end up with rare beef and flaky pastry? If so how do you do it? I am not looking for recipes
but guidance on technique. I would expect the juice to run out of the meat during resting and that
this will make the pastry soggy, how can you prevent that?

I have never made Beef Wellington per se, but I have done Bouef en Croute, a variation of it that
involves individual portions. I roasted a beef loin for a short time to partially cook it. Then
the loin as cut into serving pieces, topped with a liver concoction and mushroom flavoring,
wrapped in pastry and stuck back into the oven to cook the pastry and finish the meat. The pastry
was not soggy.

Quoted message said:

Secondly, given my objectives would the individual serving size be easier to do than a full roast,
or vice versa? How would you adjust the temperature in these cases?

I found the individual servings to be more manageable. You need a fairly high temperature to cook
the pastry properly. You have to adjust the (pre) cooking time on the meat to compensate for the
two stages.

FWIW.... you can wrap serving size pieces of salmon fillet in phyllo or puff pastry and the salmon
should be perfectly cooked in the time it takes to cook the pastry.

Quoted message said:

Thirdly, I would think it would be much easier to reserve this method for meats, such as pork,
which we eat fairly well done as it would be basically cooked through on the first baking. The
second baking would be to cook the pastry and warm the meat and it would not tend to lose juice
nearly as much while resting in the pastry. Comments?

Personally, I don't see pork as a meat that would be great wrapped in pastry. But if you must....
consider the cooking time of the pastry into the total cooking time for the meat. If you cook the
meat first, and then heat in the pastry during the second stage, it is likely to get dry and
overcooked.

David Hare-Scott said:

I am talking about meat baked in pastry where you eat the pastry as well as the roast meat.

Taking the example of baking beef in pastry, such as Beef Wellington, all the recipes that I have
seen require the meat to be partly baked first, then coated with fairly dry ingrediants, wrapped
in pastry and baked again. Also it is recommended that you rest the packet after taking it out of
the oven as one does with a plain non-pastry roast. I want to extend this method to other meats
and flavours but with the objective that the meat must be cooked to the correct degree and juicy,
and the pastry must be cooked properly and be crisp and flaky.

We like our roast beef fairly rare. I have had Beef Wellington in restaurants and too often the
meat was overdone, the bottom of the pastry was soggy, or both. Is it possible using this method
to end up with rare beef and flaky pastry? If so how do you do it? I am not looking for recipes
but guidance on technique. I would expect the juice to run out of the meat during resting and that
this will make the pastry soggy, how can you prevent that?

I roast all the time, and make pies with flaky pastry tops every week, so I suggest the following.

- to make juicy roast beef, cook in a microwave at the lowest heat setting. This process is done
easily in a combined microwave/convection oven.
- Start off with microwave - 5 mins on high to heat up the beef, wait 10 mins, then give bursts of 5
minutes at 10% power. Do this for about 40 mins.
- finish off in a medium oven about 180C for about half an hour
- leave beef to rest for at least 20 mins. Beef will be cooked through and juicy. Reserve liquid
for gravy.

New buy the BEST commercial flaky pastry you can find - possibly the supermarket. I've had horror
stories with cheaper brands that turn to glue and brands that wilt in hot weather.

Thaw pastry while beef is resting, carefully wrap beef in pastry, cook in a baking dish at about
220C, turn beef over regularly. When done properly beef will be moist & cooked and pastry will
be crispy.

Quoted message said:

Secondly, given my objectives would the individual serving size be easier to do than a full roast,
or vice versa? How would you adjust the temperature in these cases?

I have an Australian "pie maker" where I put in all sorts of fillings. It makes small individual
pies. For the outside I use flaky pastry, or even bread.

Quoted message said:

Thirdly, I would think it would be much easier to reserve this method for meats, such as pork,
which we eat fairly well done as it would be basically cooked through on the first baking. The
second baking would be to cook the pastry and warm the meat and it would not tend to lose juice
nearly as much while resting in the pastry. Comments?

David

Pork in pastry is "unusual". I've had venison in pastry years ago & it was a very strong taste but
delicious.

gtoomey

Depends on what pastry you want, I do chicken wraped in filo pastry I by from the supermarket. You
can add all sorts of thing like different frutis and other sauces that you would usally put with
chicken. Very easy. You can also do deserts like that with berriers and sugar.

"David Hare-Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agQ_b.74886$Wa.20039@news-
server.bigpond.net.au...

Quoted message said:

I am talking about meat baked in pastry where you eat the pastry as well

as

Quoted message said:

the roast meat.

Taking the example of baking beef in pastry, such as Beef Wellington, all the recipes that I have
seen require the meat to be partly baked first,

then

Quoted message said:

coated with fairly dry ingrediants, wrapped in pastry and baked again.

Also

Quoted message said:

it is recommended that you rest the packet after taking it out of the oven as one does with a
plain non-pastry roast. I want to extend this method to other meats and flavours but with the
objective that the meat must be

cooked

Quoted message said:

to the correct degree and juicy, and the pastry must be cooked properly

and

Quoted message said:

be crisp and flaky.

We like our roast beef fairly rare. I have had Beef Wellington in restaurants and too often the
meat was overdone, the bottom of the pastry was soggy, or both. Is it possible using this method
to end up with rare beef and flaky pastry? If so how do you do it? I am not looking for recipes
but guidance on technique. I would expect the juice to run out of the meat during resting and that
this will make the pastry soggy, how can you prevent that?

Secondly, given my objectives would the individual serving size be easier

to

Quoted message said:

do than a full roast, or vice versa? How would you adjust the temperature in these cases?

Thirdly, I would think it would be much easier to reserve this method for meats, such as pork,
which we eat fairly well done as it would be

basically

Quoted message said:

cooked through on the first baking. The second baking would be to cook

the

Quoted message said:

pastry and warm the meat and it would not tend to lose juice nearly as

much

Quoted message said:

while resting in the pastry. Comments?

David

David Hare-Scott a écrit :

Quoted message said:

We like our roast beef fairly rare. I have had Beef Wellington in restaurants and too often the
meat was overdone, the bottom of the pastry was soggy, or both. Is it possible using this method
to end up with rare beef and flaky pastry? If so how do you do it?

Easy as... pie ;-) Brown the beef piece (I use filet) very shortly in a pan - it must be golden
brown all over. Takes a couple of minutes. Set it aside and let it cool. Meanwhile, prepare the
pastry sheet, put whatever you like on it (I use liver paté and mushrooms), and heat the oven to
250°C (500°F). When the beef has cooled (important!), roll it into the pastry, close the pastry,
brush with beaten egg yolk, set the roll on a pastry sheet and in a baking dish in the hot oven.
When the pastry looks done (golden), it's cooked (and rare!). I never had a bad result

Nathalie in Switzerland

David Hare-Scott said:

Taking the example of baking beef in pastry, such as Beef Wellington, a=

ll

Quoted message said:

the recipes that I have seen require the meat to be partly baked first,=

then

Quoted message said:

coated with fairly dry ingrediants, wrapped in pastry and baked again. =

Also

Quoted message said:

it is recommended that you rest the packet after taking it out of the o=

ven

Quoted message said:

as one does with a plain non-pastry roast. I want to extend this method=

to

Quoted message said:

other meats and flavours but with the objective that the meat must be c=

ooked

Quoted message said:

to the correct degree and juicy, and the pastry must be cooked properly=

and

Quoted message said:

be crisp and flaky.

In my restaurants, we did both the traditional Wellington to be sliced=20 and served to a group and
individual portions. The large version=20 wasn't, to my palate, as good as the individual one.

We cut 5-ounce pieces of beef filet and seasoned and seared both=20 sides on a very hot griddle to
develop the flavor - maybe a total of 2=20 minutes cooking time. We chilled the filets to fridge
temp, topped=20 with a slice of our pate' and wrapped in a sheet of puff pastry. When=20 we first
experimented with the pastry, it became soggy from the meat=20 juices and the rendered fat from the
pate. We solved that problem by=20 egg washing the pastry inside.

We did two forms of the pastry wrapper. One was where we set the filet=20 with topping on a square-
cut sheet of pastry (5 to 6 inches square)=20 and gathered the four points up into a flower-looking
top. Pretty but=20 sometimes juices would flow up and out and mar the appearance. The=20 other way
was to put the filet upside down in the middle of the sheet=20 and pull the points together and
kinda smoosh them a bit flatter. We=20 then turned the little package upside down so it was smooth
on top and=20 the seams were all underneath.

We then froze them. When it came time to cook them, we put the frozen=20 assemblage in a hot (400F)
convection oven. By the time the pastry was=20 puffed and browned, the meat was medium rare (about
130F) If people=20 wanted it cooked more, we lowered the temp of the oven to maybe 375=20 and cooked
it a bit longer. Final test was always a thermometer stuck=20 into the meat.

We served it on a plate napped with two sauces swirled together:=20 B=E9arnaise and demi glace. No
need to cook the meat in advance except=20 to get some Maillard reaction flavors. And that's just
the surface. I=20 wouldn't use pork for this. Not enough character on its own.

Pastorio

Quoted message said:

We like our roast beef fairly rare. I have had Beef Wellington in restaurants and too often the
meat was overdone, the bottom of the past=

ry

Quoted message said:

was soggy, or both. Is it possible using this method to end up with ra=

re

Quoted message said:

beef and flaky pastry? If so how do you do it? I am not looking for recipes but guidance on
technique. I would expect the juice to run out=

of

Quoted message said:

the meat during resting and that this will make the pastry soggy, how c=

an

Quoted message said:

you prevent that?
=20
Secondly, given my objectives would the individual serving size be easi=

er to

Quoted message said:

do than a full roast, or vice versa? How would you adjust the temperat=

ure

Quoted message said:

in these cases?
=20
Thirdly, I would think it would be much easier to reserve this method f=

or

Quoted message said:

meats, such as pork, which we eat fairly well done as it would be basic=

ally

Quoted message said:

cooked through on the first baking. The second baking would be to cook=

the

Quoted message said:

pastry and warm the meat and it would not tend to lose juice nearly as =

much

Quoted message said:

while resting in the pastry. Comments?
=20
David

Thank you all for your constructive comments.

David

"David Hare-Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am talking about meat baked in pastry where you eat the pastry as well as the roast meat.

Taking the example of baking beef in pastry, such as Beef Wellington, all the recipes that I have
seen require the meat to be partly baked first, then coated with fairly dry ingrediants, wrapped
in pastry and baked again. Also it is recommended that you rest the packet after taking it out of
the oven as one does with a plain non-pastry roast. I want to extend this method to other meats
and flavours but with the objective that the meat must be cooked to the correct degree and juicy,
and the pastry must be cooked properly and be crisp and flaky.

We like our roast beef fairly rare. I have had Beef Wellington in restaurants and too often the
meat was overdone, the bottom of the pastry was soggy, or both. Is it possible using this method
to end up with rare beef and flaky pastry? If so how do you do it? I am not looking for recipes
but guidance on technique. I would expect the juice to run out of the meat during resting and that
this will make the pastry soggy, how can you prevent that?

Secondly, given my objectives would the individual serving size be easier to do than a full roast,
or vice versa? How would you adjust the temperature in these cases?

Thirdly, I would think it would be much easier to reserve this method for meats, such as pork,
which we eat fairly well done as it would be basically cooked through on the first baking. The
second baking would be to cook the pastry and warm the meat and it would not tend to lose juice
nearly as much while resting in the pastry. Comments?

David

This is not exactly what you are asking about, but your post made me think about this. Try googling
for "lamb exohiko." It's a Greek country style dish of lamb and other stuff (potatoes, cheese and
seasonings, among possible other stuff) cooked in filo. You will find recipes that want you to bake
it in puff pastry, but I don't think they are genuine. I have a sense that it's purpose is to use up
leftovers.

-bwg