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Mayo's team starts with 8 riders, not 9.

Started by Ronde Champ · · Last activity · 9 posts · 525 views

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Road Cycling
Published
3 July 2004
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4 July 2004
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Ronde Champ
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  1. Hey,

    So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
    rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
    halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
    enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
    hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
    they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
    There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
    days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

    Thanks,
    Ronde Champ

  2. "Ronde Champ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hey,

    So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
    rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30.

    If they go out with a bad start, they may then only be concerned about the
    exclusion time, so you are right. Still, Mayo is strong in a TTT and they
    have several other strong TTT members so down count them out yet.

    They will be that far back

    Quoted message said:

    halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
    enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
    hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
    they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
    There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
    days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

    I don't see the logic in that statement.

    Quoted message said:


    Thanks,
    Ronde Champ

  3. (Ronde Champ) said:

    Hey,

    So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
    rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
    halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
    enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
    hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
    they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
    There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
    days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

    Thanks,
    Ronde Champ

    The difference between 8 or 9 riders won't be that significant. It
    depends more on the skills of the riders.

    A few good time-trial riders in the team will be enough to make a good
    time for the team. So, I'm not really worrying about the
    Euskadi-Euskatel team.

    Groet,
    Arne Vogel

  4. The guy kicked out (HC 47 but othre paremeters irregular) had been a last
    minute replacement for another cyclist that got injured a few days before
    the presentation. G.Gonzalez was apparently doing training in the Pyrinees
    when he got the call about the replacement.

    "Ronde Champ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hey,

    So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
    rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
    halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
    enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
    hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
    they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
    There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
    days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

    Thanks,
    Ronde Champ

  5. Bird <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    (Ronde Champ) said:

    Hey,

    So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
    rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
    halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
    enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
    hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
    they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
    There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
    days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

    Thanks,
    Ronde Champ

    The difference between 8 or 9 riders won't be that significant. It
    depends more on the skills of the riders.

    A few good time-trial riders in the team will be enough to make a good
    time for the team. So, I'm not really worrying about the
    Euskadi-Euskatel team.

    Groet,
    Arne Vogel

    Absolutely! The fact that the team is short a rider will not be a
    handicap. Indeed, it may help the team to go faster, depending on the
    attributes of the rider of theirs who got booted. Mayo is not going to
    want to give up time unnecessarily, as a "strategic sacrifice". After
    all, even if he gets to save his legs with a bonus "rest day", the
    Team Time Trial occurs early in the TdF, as the 4th stage. The
    mountain stages don't start until about a week later, on the 10th
    Stage Limoges--St. Flour. Thus, Mayo would not be able to exploit his
    fresher legs.

    Armstrong does have a point--the TdF organizers ought not give an
    incentive for a team of riders to coast. It would make sense to have a
    rule that stipulates that after a team has dropped 2:30, in can
    continue to drop time at a reduced rate, by applying a simple
    coefficent. For instance, for every second that a team loses **above
    and beyond** a 2:30 deficit, the riders will only have, say, 0.5 of a
    second added on to his time. So, if a team finished 10 minutes
    behind, then the riders would lose 2:30 + ( 0.5 * 7:30)= 2:30 + 3:45 =
    6:15

  6. [email hidden] (Isidor Gunsberg) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    ...
    Armstrong does have a point--the TdF organizers ought not give an
    incentive for a team of riders to coast.

    The problem is that there may actually a disincentive for even the
    fast teams to ride hard because they are limited in the amount they
    can expand their lead over even the teams which place close behind in
    placing, even if not close in time.

    According to the rules (you can disregard what the OLN guys have been
    saying) a team could win the TTT by a minute but would only be given a
    20 second advantge over second place.
    Contrary to the erroneous "maximum loss of 2:30" information that is
    floating around, the rule does not simply provide for a maxiumum loss
    of 2:30, it provides a sliding scale to minimize the effect of time
    and more or less equalizes all the teams by assigning an arbitrary
    time based upon placing.

    Of course under the current rules a team's *placing* is very important
    so there is still incentive to be better than other teams, even if
    only slightly so.

    Summary of rules at
    http://www.letour.fr/2004/us/reglement.html
    Full rules at:
    http://www.letour.fr/2004/docs/reglement_us.pdf

    Here's the full TTT rule
    Article 24 – Team time trials
    (art. 2.6.023 to 2.6.024)
    Teams start their team time trial at 5 minute intervals in the reverse
    order of the team ranking established following the 3rd stage. As
    soon as the 1st team starts, training is forbidden along the route; a
    separate warm-up area is provided. The stage ranking is established
    for each of the teams based on the finishing time of the 5th rider in
    each team (to the nearest hundredth of a second). An identical time is
    given to all teammates who arrive within this same time, even if they
    actually finish quicker.
    The procedure for establishing the general individual time ranking is
    as follows:

    [Here is the inmportant part]
    Times for all riders are calculated according to the gap between them
    and the 5th man of the winning team (scratch time).

    If this gap is less than that given in the table below, then the
    actual time recorded by the timekeepers will be taken.
    If the gap is more than that given in the table below, then the rider
    will receive the time of the winning team plus the additional number
    of seconds indicated in the table below according to the place of
    their team.
    20'' for the 2nd team
    30'' for the 3rd team
    40'' for the 4th team
    50'' for the 5th team
    1' for the 6th team
    1'10 for the 7th team
    1'20 for the 8th team
    1'30 for the 9th team
    1'40 for the 10th team
    1'50 for the 11th team
    2'00 for the 12th team
    2'10 for the 13th team
    2'20 for the 14th team
    2'30 for the 15th team
    2'35 for the 16th team
    2'40 for the 17th team
    2'45 for the 18th team
    2'50 for the 19th team
    2'55 for the 20th team
    3'00 for the 21st team
    Riders who arrive on their own after the 5th rider in their team will
    be credited for the general ranking with the actual time they took to
    complete the stage. However, riders finishing outside of the permitted
    finishing times (coefficient 6) will be disqualified.
    As far as the general team ranking is concerned, the actual time of
    the 5th man in each team will be the time recorded for this ranking.
    In the event that a team no longer has at least five riders, those
    remaining must finish the stage within the permitted finishing time
    cited in article 22 (coefficient 6). The time recorded for the general
    ranking will be the finishing time of the last rider in that team.
    Riders from the same team are forbidden from pushing or pulling each
    other along.
    Food and drink will be supplied by the team staff from the sports
    director's car at the back of the group, once they have reached the
    designated feeding area.

    DR

  7. "Ronde Champ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hey,

    So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
    rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30.

    So tell me when you read the rules?

  8. in article [email hidden], Ronde Champ at
    [email hidden] wrote on 7/3/04 6:20 AM:

    Quoted message said:

    Hey,

    So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
    rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
    halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
    enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
    hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
    they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
    There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
    days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

    Well last year, only 6 E-E riders finished together in the TTT. So it
    doesn't matter anyways. But Gorka Gonzalez was a flat-stage strongman, very
    hard to come by in the Basque country, and so this will be a huge blow even
    if it doesn't make much of a difference for the TTT.

    -Sonarrat.

  9. It is difficult to know if he could have really contributed much. He was not
    part of the original EE team for the TdF but was called last minute to
    replace (I think M Artetxe). G. Gonzalez was trainning in the Pyrenees and
    had just finished riding the Quebrantahuesos (that is the most prestigious
    cyclotourist "march" in Spain) when he was informed he should jooin the TdF
    team.

    "Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    in article [email hidden], Ronde Champ at
    [email hidden] wrote on 7/3/04 6:20 AM:

    Quoted message said:

    Hey,

    So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
    rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
    halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
    enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
    hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
    they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
    There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
    days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

    Well last year, only 6 E-E riders finished together in the TTT. So it
    doesn't matter anyways. But Gorka Gonzalez was a flat-stage strongman,


    very

    Quoted message said:

    hard to come by in the Basque country, and so this will be a huge blow


    even

    Quoted message said:

    if it doesn't make much of a difference for the TTT.

    -Sonarrat.

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