Mayo crashes before Pav

And Phonak and T-Mobile were up there pushing the pace, too. Everyone
trying to stay out of trouble. Mayo's DS had to know this was coming,
but why his contender is wheel sucking at the back of the group rather
than up front is anyone's guess. Does E-E ride the spring classics?

"MikeW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I think the decision to ride in front had more to do with the upcoming
cobbles than Mayo's misfortune? Just worked out that way.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gary" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I believe the wait is expected for the yellow jersey only, although I
may be mistaken about that.

There is no expected wait. Ullrich showed his class by waiting, Armstrong
does not.

Jonathan.

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David Off said:

Iban Mayo has been involved in a big pile-up just before the cobbles.
His shorts are ripped and he has a big gash on his left thigh but seems
to be regaining the bunch.

Marco Velo looks to be out -- blood all over his jersey.

A chief lieutenant for AleJet gone, seems the sprinters trains are
taking the beating this year.

Bird said:

Who is the [censored]? Did you remember Armstrong and Hamilton, last
year? Those were the [censored], when they thought for a while that
Ullrich didn't wait for Armstrng, after his clumsy fall in the
Pyrenees. (Ullrich did wait, but Mr. Armstrong was nevertheless
complaining about a lack of sportsmanship)

As I said before, that stinks.

There's a difference between a large group pushing
the pace on a dangerous section and a small group
agreeing not to attack after the yellow jersey
goes down because of spectator intervention.

Of course your choice of words shows no bias at
all towards LA.

--
Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com

On a cobblestone section, the safest place to be is at the front.
Naturally, the way to ensure your placement at the front is to elevate
the pace significantly. Given the placement of the two most experienced
USPS riders on cobblestones (Eki and Hincapie), this strategy was
unquestionably planned in advance.

Whether Mayo crashed or didn't crash, it did not alter the strategy. It
was only a matter of circumstance that Mayo ended up in the lagging half
of the peloton. Furthermore, given the protective measures of USPS,
Phonak, and T-Mobile for their respective leaders, it would have been
faulty for any of them to compromise the safety of their leaders (top GC
contenders) by sitting up in this dangerous section.

--

"John Everett" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

"Gary" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I believe the wait is expected for the yellow jersey only, although I
may be mistaken about that.

There is no expected wait. Ullrich showed his class by waiting, Armstrong
does not.

Have we suddenly forgotten when Lance waited for Jan after he tumbled
off the road on a descent a couple of years ago?

No. But we haven't forgotten either the comment of Johan Bruyneel: "He asked
me if he should continue. I said he'd better wait. The finish was much too
far and Heras and Ribeira were just behind."
I other words: it had nothing to do with sportmanship. Not that I blame him.
As Rudy Altig said: "We're pro's, not sportsmen". On the other hand, when
Armstrong seemd to wait for Ullrich, he recieved a lot of goodwill. That was
good for his reputaion and his sponsors must have loved it. If possible
riders should always try to seem generous and fait, if not, they and so ir
sponsors will get bad publicity. Fortunately, there is almost always an
excuse for being a bit unsportsmanlike. Just as this time.

Benjo Maso

Andy Coggan said:

Perhaps that should be amended to "used to be considered to be very
unsportmanlike". That is, given the amount of $$ in pro cycling today,
should we really expect such traditions to be maintained? That would sort of
be like trying to maintain the original sense of "amateur" vs.
"professional", now wouldn't it?

Yeah, but it gives me a nasty taste. Remember last year, the comments
of Armstrong about Ullrich? Armstrong was [censored] of, only because he
thought for a while that Ullrich wouldn't wait after Armstongs clumsy
fall in the Pyrenees.

And who was that showguy, telling and waving in front of everybody
(and the cameras) that we ought to wait for "friend" Armstrong? Right,
that was Hamilton, the guy who put his team in front today as well.

That's not "unsportmanlike", that stinks.

On 7/6/04 8:56 AM, in article
[email hidden], "David Off"

Quoted message said:

Bird said:

Top Sirloin said:

> But the teams of Arrmstrong and Hamilton were doing the job, specially
> in the begin, when the difference was being build up.

And your point is? None them were going to [censored]
away the opportunity.

My point is Ullrichs team was _not_ doing the job. Armstrong and
Hamilton decide it would be nice to get an extra benefit from Mayo's
fall.

I saw at least one Telekom guy with the US postal team once they
realised that Mayo and co. were off the back.

T-Mobile WAS doing the work too!

16:19 CEST    170km/40km to go
The Mayo group are coming back towards the leading bunch, but only slowly -
it doesn't look as though they're going to get back before the second
section of pave. T-Mobile, US Postal and Phonak are all working hard on the
front (whatever happened to not attacking favourites who crash, I hear you
ask - and have no answer). Illes Baleares have moved up to help in the
chasing group, to work for Denis Menchov. The sprinters' teams are all
taking it nice and easy for the moment.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <nl>...

Quoted message said:

"David Off" <david.off_-05.noos.net...

Quoted message said:

Iban Mayo has been involved in a big pile-up just before the cobbles.
His shorts are ripped and he has a big gash on his left thigh but seems
to be regaining the bunch.

Ofcourse, that's the moment that the bunch of US Postal [censored] decide to
ride a tempo that prevents Mayo from rejoining the group. Armstrong expects
everyone else to wait for him, but God forbid that he would extend that
courtesy to others.

You obviously are a racing rookie or never have raced yourself.
To say something as ignorant of what you wrote
just proves it Jonathan. What a [censored].

-Ken

benjo maso said:

Fortunately, there is almost always an excuse for being a bit
unsportsmanlike. Just as this time.

If Mayo had been in front of the accident, but Christophe Moreau and Thor
Hushvold were behind, should the front group have waited? If Mayo and
Hushvold were ahead of the accident, but Moreau was behind, should the
front have waited?

Top Sirloin said:

Bird said:

My point is Ullrichs team was _not_ doing the job. Armstrong and
Hamilton decide it would be nice to get an extra benefit from Mayo's
fall.

Did you watch it? All I have is stuff like this to
go on:

I did watch it.

Quoted message said:

16:47 CEST 197km/13km to go
Still Phonak, T-Mobile and (to a lesser extent) US
Postal leading the front group.

13 km. before the finish? That was not the moment the difference was
being made, is it?

I am talking about the moment directly after Mayo's fall. That is,
just before and after the passages over that cobbles.

Quoted message said:

No point, I'm just upset at the [censored] who think
everyone should stop on the pave for a potty break
because one of the "favorites" crashed.

Who is the [censored]? Did you remember Armstrong and Hamilton, last
year? Those were the [censored], when they thought for a while that
Ullrich didn't wait for Armstrng, after his clumsy fall in the
Pyrenees. (Ullrich did wait, but Mr. Armstrong was nevertheless
complaining about a lack of sportsmanship)

As I said before, that stinks.

Andy Coggan said:

According to the cyclingnews.com coverage, T-Mobile was also contributing.

Not in the begin, when the difference was being made.

(according to the broadcast on my own television)

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Gary" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I believe the wait is expected for the yellow jersey only, although I
may be mistaken about that.

There is no expected wait. Ullrich showed his class by waiting, Armstrong
does not.

Jonathan.

What about the other 90 guys in the peloton who crushed
the slow Euskaltel squad today -- are they also classless?

When the fu** did Ullrich wait for Mayo today?

You are a nut Jonathan, and tunnel-visioned.
Ken

John Everett said:

Have we suddenly forgotten when Lance waited for Jan after he tumbled
off the road on a descent a couple of years ago?

No.

And have we suddenly forgotten that on that day Ullrich was way behind
Armstrong in the CG?

David Off <david.off_04.noos.net>...

Quoted message said:

Robert Chung said:

Marco Velo looks to be out -- blood all over his jersey.

absolutely horrible crash for Velo, a fractured clavicule. Very nasty.

I had a worse crash last year with a bigger broken bone
and it sure wasn't "horrific."

May Marco Velo recover quickly and may Mayo now attack
the [censored] out of Armstrong and Ullrich and Hamilton and Levi!

-Ken

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:02:54 GMT, "Michael" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

T-Mobile and US Postal joined together and put some time
into Iban Mayo. I wonder if Lance and Jan are giving Mayo
a little payback for last year when Mayo, Basso, and Zubeldia
sat on his wheel up Luz Ardiden and Mayo went ahead and
took some of the time bonus. That was truly a crummy think
for the Spanish riders to do.

Had it been on the flat, maybe. Sitting behind someone on a climb
doesn't gain any particular physical advantage: it's just helps set a
target pace. If you can outsprint them at the top, then you've done
the work to be there, fair enough.

(Of course, on the flat it's generally your own fault if you are daft
enough to tow people to the line anyway)

Roger

John Everett said:

I'm guessing at that point they still didn't know Mayo had
gone down

Only if their radios or the team car TV weren't working...

"Ted B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a cobblestone section, the safest place to be is at the front.
Naturally, the way to ensure your placement at the front is to elevate
the pace significantly. Given the placement of the two most experienced
USPS riders on cobblestones (Eki and Hincapie), this strategy was
unquestionably planned in advance.

Whether Mayo crashed or didn't crash, it did not alter the strategy. It
was only a matter of circumstance that Mayo ended up in the lagging half
of the peloton. Furthermore, given the protective measures of USPS,
Phonak, and T-Mobile for their respective leaders, it would have been
faulty for any of them to compromise the safety of their leaders (top GC
contenders) by sitting up in this dangerous section.

Excellent point!

I suspect that if they had been descending a col, they might have
waited...but, on the pave, no way.

GG

Steve McGinty said:

may Mayo now attack

Quoted message said:

the [censored] out of Armstrong and Ullrich and Hamilton and Levi!

He's a cert for the KoM now.

Regards!
Stephen

He is quoted by CN as saying a podium place is gone. But all he has to do
is hold onto the winner the rest of the race, and he will finish within
Vino's time (3rd) last year:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/tour03/?id=results/stage20

4 min down is quite normal for 3rd place. He's very much in podium contention.

Dan

Bird said:

13 km. before the finish? That was not the moment the difference was
being made, is it?

Also mentioned in previous commentary entries IIRC.

Quoted message said:

I am talking about the moment directly after Mayo's fall. That is,
just before and after the passages over that cobbles.

At that point the bunch was lined out on Hincapie's wheel, not much
scope for other teams' contributions. As soon as the bunch reformed
into a normal road pattern after the Erre cobbles, T-Mobile and Phonak
riders were up there working.

Roger

Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

AMG said:

Of course, Ullrich isn't waiting here either.

Perhaps it is assumed that the second group will close the gap by the end
of the stage? In that case, waiting or not makes no difference. We'll see
in a short while how this ends up.

Don't be silly. They're riding to put time on Mayo and everyone else in
the second group. It's about winning the Tour.

The justification, I suspect, is that this was a split made on the pave.
Splits on the pave are expected -- part of the game. There's no
gentleman's agreement to neutralize the cobbles.

Also, was Euskaltel-Euskadi ever expected to do well today? I'd say
that the result today was a fair trade for the TTT rule. But Mayo's
comments afterwards are too defeatist. He should stay motivated,
because the Tour is not over. It's only the fourth day, and the GC
will turn completely upside down three or four more times before what
remains of the peloton reaches Paris. Mayo has shown everyone that he
can be competitive day after day after day... now he has to apply it
to the Tour.

-Sonarrat.