UK and Europe · Public discussion

Max. tyre pressure Q.

Started by tony R · · Last activity · 28 posts · 1,456 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
UK and Europe
Published
15 May 2004
Last activity
19 May 2004
Original author
tony R
Posts
28
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,456
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 28
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Evening all,

    as my tourer will not be touring this year I've bought some slightly
    narrower tyres for it - 28mm Schwalbe Marathons. They are rated to a maximum
    pressure of 115 p.s.i. and I would normally run the rear tyre at about this
    and the front slightly lower as per Sheldon and others' advice. However, my
    rims (Mavic A719s) also have a maximum tyre pressure marked on them, and for
    28mm tyres this is 103 p.s.i. Any thoughts on whether I can breach this
    limit safely? After all, my old rims had no such markings and it would have
    never even entered my head that they might have a limit that was lower than
    the tyre.

    thanks,

    tony R.

  2. "tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Evening all,

    as my tourer will not be touring this year I've bought some slightly
    narrower tyres for it - 28mm Schwalbe Marathons. They are rated to a


    maximum

    Quoted message said:

    pressure of 115 p.s.i. and I would normally run the rear tyre at about


    this

    Quoted message said:

    and the front slightly lower as per Sheldon and others' advice. However,


    my

    Quoted message said:

    rims (Mavic A719s) also have a maximum tyre pressure marked on them, and


    for

    Quoted message said:

    28mm tyres this is 103 p.s.i. Any thoughts on whether I can breach this
    limit safely? After all, my old rims had no such markings and it would


    have

    Quoted message said:

    never even entered my head that they might have a limit that was lower


    than

    Quoted message said:

    the tyre.

    Personally, I'd have thought 115PSI a bit high for 28mm covers anyway,
    although rider weight obviously does make a difference. I wouldn't give
    Mavic rims any excuse for disintegrating, if I were you - I've no experience
    with the 719s, which may well be fine, but others tend not to need much
    encouragement!

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.686 / Virus Database: 447 - Release Date: 14/05/2004

  3. tony R said:

    Evening all,

    as my tourer will not be touring this year I've bought some slightly
    narrower tyres for it - 28mm Schwalbe Marathons. They are rated to a
    maximum pressure of 115 p.s.i. and I would normally run the rear tyre
    at about this and the front slightly lower as per Sheldon and others'
    advice. However, my rims (Mavic A719s) also have a maximum tyre
    pressure marked on them, and for 28mm tyres this is 103 p.s.i. Any
    thoughts on whether I can breach this limit safely? After all, my old
    rims had no such markings and it would have never even entered my
    head that they might have a limit that was lower than the tyre.

    I also think 115 psi is a little high for a 28mm touring tyre, for
    comfort, but I think you should be able to use that pressure if you
    like... in general, that is. I don't know the A719.

    If the concern is over whether the tyre will stay on the rim (rather than
    about the strength of the rim), I would test the tyre by over-inflating it
    (to beyond what you would ever want to use) and leaving to stand for 24
    hours*. If it survives that, it should survive lower pressure in normal
    use with all the various forces. There is a danger of damaging the rim's
    sidewalls if you go too far, though. I would guess a 130 psi test would
    do for this case, but don't go that high if you think the rim might not be
    strong enough.

    Dodgy tyres I've used have failed this test and I've never had any
    problems with tyres or rims that have passed it. Be prepared for an
    enormous bang and the loss of an inner tube.

    * It can take several hours for a bead to creep off, even when the wheel
    is stationary sitting at home. Best to test both tyres on both rims in
    case they ever get swapped (the tyres/rims may be actually slightly
    differenent even if same models & sizes).

    ~PB

  4. On Sat, 15 May 2004 23:04:22 +0100, "tony R" <[email hidden]>

    wrote in message : said:

    28mm Schwalbe Marathons. They are rated to a maximum
    pressure of 115 p.s.i. and I would normally run the rear tyre at about this
    and the front slightly lower as per Sheldon and others' advice. However, my
    rims (Mavic A719s) also have a maximum tyre pressure marked on them, and for
    28mm tyres this is 103 p.s.i.

    Wot the others said: 90-100psi should be fine. If in doubt about the
    rims (e.g. due to wear), overinflate by 50% then let the pressure down
    again.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  5. "tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Evening all,

    as my tourer will not be touring this year I've bought some slightly
    narrower tyres for it - 28mm Schwalbe Marathons. They are rated to a


    maximum

    Quoted message said:

    pressure of 115 p.s.i. and I would normally run the rear tyre at about


    this

    Quoted message said:

    and the front slightly lower as per Sheldon and others' advice. However,


    my

    Quoted message said:

    rims (Mavic A719s) also have a maximum tyre pressure marked on them, and


    for

    Quoted message said:

    28mm tyres this is 103 p.s.i. Any thoughts on whether I can breach this
    limit safely? After all, my old rims had no such markings and it would


    have

    Quoted message said:

    never even entered my head that they might have a limit that was lower


    than

    Quoted message said:

    the tyre.

    They will have a massive safety margin built in, they should be fine.

    --
    Mike W

  6. "VisionSet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    They will have a massive safety margin built in, they should be fine.


    Thanks for the advice everyone. I too was a little surprised to see 115 on
    the sidewall, but what do I know? I've always run 32mm tyres. Anyway, I
    think I'll try them out at about 100 and see how it goes.

    tony R.

  7. "tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "VisionSet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    They will have a massive safety margin built in, they should be fine.

    The question is how much safety margin will remain when the tyres heat up from
    braking on a long descent.

    Recent/current thread in rec.bicycles.tech on this topic.

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for the advice everyone. I too was a little surprised to see 115 on
    the sidewall, but what do I know? I've always run 32mm tyres. Anyway, I
    think I'll try them out at about 100 and see how it goes.

    Think about how much you and your load will weigh. I weigh 180lbs on a skinny
    day and inflate my 23mm road bike tyres to 100psi each. That means they each
    need to have a contact patch of about 9/10ths of a square inch in order to
    support my weight. And that's fine with my tyres.
    --
    Mark South
    Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net
    <<Tiens! Ce poulet a une grenade!>>

  8. "Mark South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "VisionSet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    They will have a massive safety margin built in, they should be fine.

    The question is how much safety margin will remain when the tyres heat up


    from

    Quoted message said:

    braking on a long descent.

    That's like saying a lift motor is specified for upto 10 m/s but they only
    tested it with an empty lift. No they test it with a 200% of rated load and
    150% of the rated speed.

    --
    Mike W

  9. VisionSet [email hidden] opined the following...

    Quoted message said:

    That's like saying a lift motor is specified for upto 10 m/s but they only
    tested it with an empty lift. No they test it with a 200% of rated load and
    150% of the rated speed.

    But the OP is talking about exceeding the maximum pressure stated on the
    rim, so he is already over the rating. The question is, how over-
    engineered is the rim?

    Jon

  10. "VisionSet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:z%Tpc.11934$7S2.472@newsfe1-win...

    Quoted message said:

    "Mark South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "VisionSet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > They will have a massive safety margin built in, they should be


    fine.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    The question is how much safety margin will remain when the tyres heat


    up

    Quoted message said:

    from

    Quoted message said:

    braking on a long descent.

    That's like saying a lift motor is specified for upto 10 m/s but they only
    tested it with an empty lift. No they test it with a 200% of rated load


    and

    Quoted message said:

    150% of the rated speed.

    Whilst I have no experience with the 719, the fact is that Mavic rims have,
    during the past ten years or so, developed a reputation for exploding
    sidewalls. This is mostly due to lack of sidewall thickness / durability and
    wear, and as such is unlikely to be a problem with new rims, but clearly
    tyre pressure is another factor which will become more significant as the
    rim wears. The people who have suggested over-inflating overnight are making
    sensible suggestions.Your confidence in Mavic's testing is (whilst touching
    ;-)) seriously misplaced IMO!

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 16/05/2004

  11. "Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    VisionSet [email hidden] opined the following...

    But the OP is talking about exceeding the maximum pressure stated on the
    rim, so he is already over the rating.

    I agree. Although it's improbable that 15 PSI will make much difference, I
    think it's also fair to say that there will be very little performance
    advantage. Why not stick to the recommendations?

    Quoted message said:

    The question is, how over-
    engineered is the rim?

    Quite. And *over* engineering is not a speciality of Mavic, in my
    experience.

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 16/05/2004

  12. Simon D:

    Quoted message said:

    Personally, I'd have thought 115PSI a bit high for 28mm covers anyway,

    So, you wouldn't be too enthusiastic about the idea of a 1 1/4"
    kevlar-beaded tyre inflated to 120 psi (max pressure according to tyre info)
    on a front wheel with an unhooked rim, on a bike ridden by a 14st+ rider?

    Couldn't tell you what the rim is. It's not Mavic. It's aluminium, I know
    that much. There's nothing on the rim about max pressure, only on the tyre.
    I hadn't even considered that this might be a problem, but now I'm a bit
    scared that I'm leaving myself in danger of blowouts/rim explosions. I
    thought you needed to run the tyres at the highest possible pressure to
    reduce risk of punctures.

    d.

  13. "davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Simon D:

    Quoted message said:

    Personally, I'd have thought 115PSI a bit high for 28mm covers anyway,

    So, you wouldn't be too enthusiastic about the idea of a 1 1/4"
    kevlar-beaded tyre inflated to 120 psi (max pressure according to tyre


    info)

    Quoted message said:

    on a front wheel with an unhooked rim, on a bike ridden by a 14st+ rider?

    Couldn't tell you what the rim is. It's not Mavic. It's aluminium, I know
    that much. There's nothing on the rim about max pressure, only on the


    tyre.

    Quoted message said:

    I hadn't even considered that this might be a problem, but now I'm a bit
    scared that I'm leaving myself in danger of blowouts/rim explosions. I
    thought you needed to run the tyres at the highest possible pressure to
    reduce risk of punctures.

    I think that's unlikely that either problem will occur (when it's a real
    problem - when you're riding it) if you follow Guy et als' advice about
    pre-testing at higher pressures. Rims can and do disintegrate, though! Check
    rims for wear regularly.

    My concern re. the OP is that Mavic are recommending a lower pressure from
    the start - i.e. not as a preventative measure when the rim's worn. Possibly
    higher pressure from the start can reduce the time before it disintegrates,
    through increased outward force being applied over a long period??? That's
    just complete speculation, though.

    As for higher pressures reducing punctures, that depends on the (potential)
    cause of the puncture. It will reduce impact punctures ("snake bite"😉, but
    will probably, if anything, increase punctures caused by thorns, glass, etc.
    Again, I wouldn't have thought 120PSI would be the optimum for you; a 1 1/4"
    tyre can deform a lot before it causes a snake bite.

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 16/05/2004

  14. Simon D:

    Quoted message said:

    I think that's unlikely that either problem will occur (when it's a real
    problem - when you're riding it) if you follow Guy et als' advice about
    pre-testing at higher pressures.

    I presume that over-inflating will quickly (catastrophically?) reveal if
    there is excessiev wear in the rim, yes?

    Quoted message said:

    My concern re. the OP is that Mavic are recommending a lower pressure from
    the start - i.e. not as a preventative measure when the rim's worn.

    Ah, now I see. And I think I understand your concern.

    Quoted message said:

    Again, I wouldn't have thought 120PSI would be the optimum for you

    Tactfully put. ;-)

    I forgot to add my other reason for prefering higher pressure - they seem to
    run faster at higher pressure (tbh, I rather thought that was the point of
    high-pressure tyres). It makes the ride a bit 'harder', but not
    uncomfortably so.

    d.

  15. Simon D said:
    Quoted message said:

    But the OP is talking about exceeding the maximum pressure stated on
    the rim, so he is already over the rating.

    What is that rating for? Why does it vary with tyre width? Is it about
    rim strength or tyre retension?

    ~PB

  16. "davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I presume that over-inflating will quickly (catastrophically?) reveal if
    there is excessiev wear in the rim, yes?

    Spectacularly, potentially! When the CTC published guidance on this, they
    suggseted wearing safety glasses, which sounds sensible.

    The funny thing is, that for all the countless rims I've known to fail in
    this way when being ridden, I don't remember anyone having one fail in a
    "critical" situation (fast descent, e.g.). This can only have been luck (or
    people who are about to use their bikes in such a way checking carefully
    first), and I'd have thought that increased heat caused by braking, and
    possibly sideloads too, would make them more likely to blow in such
    situations. I suppose that air pressure is *much* the most important factor,
    and that since the sidewall is permanently under load when the tyre is
    inflated the probability of failure at The Wrong Time is low.

    Quoted message said:

    I forgot to add my other reason for prefering higher pressure - they seem


    to

    Quoted message said:

    run faster at higher pressure (tbh, I rather thought that was the point of
    high-pressure tyres). It makes the ride a bit 'harder', but not
    uncomfortably so.

    Yes, it's certainly true that rolling resistance reduces as pressure
    increases. However, this is not a linear relationship; you gain a lot more
    by increasing from 70 to 80 PSI than from 100 to 110PSI. There comes a point
    where the returns (speed) are not worth the payoff (punctures; harsh ride).
    Nonetheless, if you're finding it works for you at 120PSI, who am I to
    argue? I would recommend keeping an eye on your rims, though (whatever
    pressure you run your tyres at). Don't get paranoid, but do be aware of it.
    You're probably okay with other brands, anyway - I always [1] found Mavic
    far and away the worst for this.

    [1] "Always" is not true, actually. Much as I hate to feel that I might be
    becoming an "Ah, it wasn't like that in my day..." type, I have to say that
    the Mavic rims of the early 80s never suffered this problem, IME. I think
    milling the sidewalls was the first step in the wrong direction, but there
    may be other technical reasons (alloy, attempts to save weight, e.g.) for
    the changes.

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 16/05/2004

  17. "Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Simon D wrote [actually, Jon Senior wrote!]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But the OP is talking about exceeding the maximum pressure stated on
    the rim, so he is already over the rating.

    What is that rating for? Why does it vary with tyre width? Is it about
    rim strength or tyre retension?

    ~PB

    Wasn't actually me who wrote that bit, Pete. Your guess is as good as mine.
    Might well just be a recommendation of "appropriateness", rather than being
    directly related to rim / tyre failure. That would explain the tyre section
    differences, wouldn't it? On the other hand, I'm guessing that a wider tyre
    might exert greater pressure on the sidewalls of the rim, pressure being
    equal - what do you reckon? (If you try to picture the cross section, you
    might see where I'm coming from with that statement.) At very least, the
    *direction* of the force is likely to be slightly different, don't you
    think?

    If it were my rim, I'd just be inclined to follow the manufacturer's advice,
    especially as it seems appropriate anyway.

    This is the first time I've heard of a *rim* manufacturer specifying
    pressures, and I can't help but suspect that it's connected to Mavic's
    reputation for producing rims which self-destruct after a year or two.

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 16/05/2004

  18. Simon D said:

    The funny thing is, that for all the countless rims I've known to fail in
    this way when being ridden, I don't remember anyone having one fail in a
    "critical" situation (fast descent, e.g.). This can only have been luck (or
    people who are about to use their bikes in such a way checking carefully
    first), and I'd have thought that increased heat caused by braking, and
    possibly sideloads too, would make them more likely to blow in such
    situations. I suppose that air pressure is *much* the most important factor,
    and that since the sidewall is permanently under load when the tyre is
    inflated the probability of failure at The Wrong Time is low.

    http://tranchant.plus.com/cycling/france-1996/ft7-8

    Scroll down a bit to read "Day 8". If that German had been going the
    same speed as us, he'd have been doomed (unless of course, he'd worn a
    helmet).

    --
    Mark.

  19. "Mark Tranchant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Simon D said:

    The funny thing is, that for all the countless rims I've known to fail


    in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    this way when being ridden, I don't remember anyone having one fail in a
    "critical" situation (fast descent, e.g.). This can only have been luck


    (or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    people who are about to use their bikes in such a way checking carefully
    first), and I'd have thought that increased heat caused by braking, and
    possibly sideloads too, would make them more likely to blow in such
    situations. I suppose that air pressure is *much* the most important


    factor,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and that since the sidewall is permanently under load when the tyre is
    inflated the probability of failure at The Wrong Time is low.

    http://tranchant.plus.com/cycling/france-1996/ft7-8

    Scroll down a bit to read "Day 8". If that German had been going the
    same speed as us, he'd have been doomed (unless of course, he'd worn a
    helmet).

    So it does happen. Had he managed to remain upright, Mark?

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 16/05/2004

  20. "davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Simon D:

    Quoted message said:

    I think that's unlikely that either problem will occur (when it's a real
    problem - when you're riding it) if you follow Guy et als' advice about
    pre-testing at higher pressures.

    I presume that over-inflating will quickly (catastrophically?) reveal if
    there is excessiev wear in the rim, yes?

    Ah yes - the old Bang-[censored] Test best not done in an enclosed space
    apparently
    Pump tyre up to double normal pressure - if rim doesn't go bang it's good
    for a bit longer

    Russ

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.