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Maverick Sus: Anybody else sheared off a bolt?

Started by (Pete Cresswell) · · Last activity · 18 posts · 856 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
23 November 2004
Last activity
13 December 2004
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(Pete Cresswell)
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  1. 6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

    We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
    conical head and conical bolt on each.

    My reaction on Day One was that these things looked kind of cheesey - to the
    extent I've tried to avoid assembly-dissasembly for fear of a tool stripping
    them.

    Today I got out of the saddle for a hill and felt the rear wheel wiggle.
    Stopped, and there it was: sheared that suckah right off.

    I'm pretty religious with the torque wrench - although it's not out of the
    question that the nut could have come loose.

    Only other possible way I can think of that I may have sinned is squirting a
    little ProLink chain lube into the things when they'd start to creak after
    immersion in water. (the instructions say to assemble dry....).

    I'm trying to think of a more robust replacement for these things. So far, I'm
    thinking to use two of the conical nuts on a rod of stronger material. Red
    LocTite one side, let it go off overnite, then torque the other in Blue....

    Anybody?
    --
    PeteCresswell

  2. (Pete Cresswell) said:

    6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

    We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
    conical head and conical bolt on each.

    My reaction on Day One was that these things looked kind of cheesey - to the
    extent I've tried to avoid assembly-dissasembly for fear of a tool stripping
    them.

    Today I got out of the saddle for a hill and felt the rear wheel wiggle.
    Stopped, and there it was: sheared that suckah right off.

    I'm pretty religious with the torque wrench - although it's not out of the
    question that the nut could have come loose.

    Only other possible way I can think of that I may have sinned is squirting a
    little ProLink chain lube into the things when they'd start to creak after
    immersion in water. (the instructions say to assemble dry....).

    I'm trying to think of a more robust replacement for these things. So far, I'm
    thinking to use two of the conical nuts on a rod of stronger material. Red
    LocTite one side, let it go off overnite, then torque the other in Blue....

    Anybody?

    Bummer. Didn't you get it this year?
    Your repair is worth a try, but I suspect Maverick is already using high
    strength bolts. I use red loctite on the nuts on mine (also the two
    that hold the shock to the swingarm).
    Much as I love my Maverick-style Klein, I think when I get that next big
    "issue", I'm on my second frame, I may just have to move on. 'Course,
    with how much I've been riding it the last couple months, I'll be able
    to pass it on to my grandkids. :-P

    Shawn

  3. RE/

    Quoted message said:

    Bummer. Didn't you get it this year?

    Yes.

    Quoted message said:

    Your repair is worth a try, but I suspect Maverick is already using high
    strength bolts. I use red loctite on the nuts on mine (also the two
    that hold the shock to the swingarm).

    They look conspicuously cheesey to me. "Low-Strength" would seem more
    descriptive. I'm not even sure whether the material is metal or some kind of
    plastic. One possibility, though, is that I had allowed the nut to come
    partially unscrewed - somehow transferring stress to a place it shouldn't have
    been. i.e. the strength when properly deployed is perfectly adequate...but the
    system is not very fault-tolerant when things come loose.

    I called Seven from the trail and they gave their condolences and volunteered to
    warranty the bolt and ship me 2 more overnite, so I guess "repair" is taken care
    of. I'm still, however, thinking in terms of a jury-rig kit in case it happens
    again. Walking's OK....but riding home is preferable.

    Quoted message said:

    Much as I love my Maverick-style Klein, I think when I get that next big
    "issue", I'm on my second frame, I may just have to move on. 'Course,
    with how much I've been riding it the last couple months, I'll be able
    to pass it on to my grandkids. :-P

    Only thing that I was grumbling about was the supposed need to
    dissassemble/reassemble with fresh anti-sieze when it started creaking (which
    usually happened after immeresion or riding in heavy rain). Lately, though,
    I've come to realize that the creaking that called for the dissasembly was
    coming only from the area of those two bolts - and that squirting a little
    ProLink chain lube in there took care of it. OTOH, maybe the ProLink attacked
    the LocTite and precipitated the problem....gotta check the torque on the
    surving bolt.

    Since my contract exprired on Sept 30th, I've been riding mine a couple hours
    every day. The more I ride it, the more I think I'll never want anything else.
    If somebody ran over this thing tomorrow and their insurance sprang for a
    replacement, I'd just call Seven and tell them to build me one *exactly* like
    this one. Ran that past the local dealer and he said he hears the same thing
    on a regular basis - except from guys that really are ordering another frame...

    To be perfectly candid, Seven really [censored] me off while they were
    spec-ing/building this thing. I'd call up and ask them to make this longer,
    that shorter, or whatever...and they'd always reply to the effect of "No, we're
    sticking to our design". At some point, they passed me up the chain of
    command and a guy said something like: "Look, we've built a lot of bikes. We
    know what we're doing. Trust us.".

    I said "OK"...and it worked. In the end, I think they saved me from myself and
    my cockamamie ideas.

    Only improvements I can envision are a more elegant way to tension the chain
    (I'm running a internal-geared hub), maybe a better set of forks - or at least
    something with a lockout that's controllable from the handlebars, and a fewer
    cable stops (doesn't seem rational to me to have exposed cable down on the swing
    arms of an MTB).

    --
    PeteCresswell

  4. "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

    We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
    conical head and conical bolt on each.

    They are cheesy. Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
    swingarm on the way from trek/klein. That's twice now that he's
    broken his trek/klein in less than two years of owning it. He doesn't
    mind making "the machine" (aka trek) replace his bike frames because
    it costs them, though he would prefer a Maverick American eventually
    because he rides that suspension design so well.

    The bottom line? Companies like trek make disposable bikes to those
    who actually ride and ride often in various terrrain.

    Also, before any of the doubters start claiming that Angry Man is a
    hack and breaks bikes by thrashing down the trail, those who post here
    and have ridden with him can testify that he rides as smooth as
    butter.

    JD

  5. RE/

    Quoted message said:

    Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
    swingarm on the way from trek/klein.

    That confirms my suspicion that if I kept hammering on this thing after the
    break that the rear swing arm would be damaged. I'm assuming that Angry Man
    also broke the bolt that connects to the swing arm.... Seems like the other
    bolt doesn't get as much stress.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  6. JD said:

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

    We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
    conical head and conical bolt on each.

    They are cheesy. Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
    swingarm on the way from trek/klein. That's twice now that he's
    broken his trek/klein in less than two years of owning it. He doesn't
    mind making "the machine" (aka trek) replace his bike frames because
    it costs them, though he would prefer a Maverick American eventually
    because he rides that suspension design so well.

    The bottom line? Companies like trek make disposable bikes to those
    who actually ride and ride often in various terrrain.

    Also, before any of the doubters start claiming that Angry Man is a
    hack and breaks bikes by thrashing down the trail, those who post here
    and have ridden with him can testify that he rides as smooth as
    butter.

    JD

    One would think that if they take the design from Maverick and basically
    keep it exactly the same, one couldn't ruin it. Is it worth it to cut
    costs by using shoddy bolts? If you want to cut costs, use cheaper
    paint. Is it easier for them just to replace things everytime for free,
    rather than do it right the first time? I know you've probably hashed
    this out a million times in the NG. Where does Maverick produce their
    frames?

    --
    o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
    www.schnauzers.ws

  7. RE/

    Quoted message said:

    One would think that if they take the design from Maverick and basically
    keep it exactly the same, one couldn't ruin it. Is it worth it to cut
    costs by using shoddy bolts?

    In my case it's a SevenCycles and I don't think they'd chince out on
    anything...it's just not their niche.

    I'm no engineer, but my take is that it's an engineering judgement thing.
    Whoever designs it has to make tradeoffs between weight, durability,
    installability, servicability in the field, fault tolerance in unexpected
    situations and cost.

    They came up with something that was light and seemed to do the job at hand.

    One could hope that it will evolve into something that is more fault-tolerant or
    at least could be replaced in the field....But I'm not holding my breath until
    that happens.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  8. "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    RE/

    Quoted message said:

    Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
    swingarm on the way from trek/klein.

    That confirms my suspicion that if I kept hammering on this thing after the
    break that the rear swing arm would be damaged. I'm assuming that Angry Man
    also broke the bolt that connects to the swing arm.... Seems like the other
    bolt doesn't get as much stress.

    He sheared both sides, maybe even simultaneously. They were too far
    down in at the break and loctited. So, a new swinger is on the way.

    JD

  9. Ride-A-Lot <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    JD said:

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

    We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
    conical head and conical bolt on each.

    They are cheesy. Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
    swingarm on the way from trek/klein. That's twice now that he's
    broken his trek/klein in less than two years of owning it. He doesn't
    mind making "the machine" (aka trek) replace his bike frames because
    it costs them, though he would prefer a Maverick American eventually
    because he rides that suspension design so well.

    The bottom line? Companies like trek make disposable bikes to those
    who actually ride and ride often in various terrrain.

    Also, before any of the doubters start claiming that Angry Man is a
    hack and breaks bikes by thrashing down the trail, those who post here
    and have ridden with him can testify that he rides as smooth as
    butter.

    JD

    One would think that if they take the design from Maverick and basically
    keep it exactly the same, one couldn't ruin it. Is it worth it to cut
    costs by using shoddy bolts? If you want to cut costs, use cheaper
    paint. Is it easier for them just to replace things everytime for free,
    rather than do it right the first time?

    I think it's fantastic because it really shows what all of the cookie
    cutter bike companies like to do. They try to copy a good design,
    change a few minor details to make it look original or "innovative",
    and then cut corners where they shouldn't, making a disposable bike in
    the process. Only a fool would ignore these sad facts.

    Quoted message said:

    I know you've probably hashed this out a million times in the NG.

    Yeah, so it only makes foolish people more the fool for ignoring it.

    Quoted message said:

    Where does Maverick produce their frames?

    I would wager to guess that Reco Diver knows and a quick phone call
    would tell me.

    JD

  10. RE/

    Quoted message said:

    He sheared both sides, maybe even simultaneously. They were too far
    down in at the break and loctited. So, a new swinger is on the way.

    Do you know an email address for Angry Man?

    I'm getting a suspicion of how I managed to toast this thing and would like to
    hear if he made a similar move just before it failed.

    I don't know the name of the move, but in a tight space when you want to turn
    the bike; lean forward until the rear wheel is off the ground, then swing the
    bike around until it's pointing in the direction you want to go and let the rear
    wheel drop to the ground.

    When I visualize this done on a downhill surface, I see the forces trying to
    bend the frame in half when the rear wheel grabs the ground with the rider's
    downhill momentum on it - and trying to pop the head off of the bolt that
    connects the Mav link to the rear triangle.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  11. [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Ride-A-Lot <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    JD said:

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    >6.4 miles walk home...Whew!
    >
    >We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
    >conical head and conical bolt on each.

    They are cheesy. Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
    swingarm on the way from trek/klein. That's twice now that he's
    broken his trek/klein in less than two years of owning it. He doesn't
    mind making "the machine" (aka trek) replace his bike frames because
    it costs them, though he would prefer a Maverick American eventually
    because he rides that suspension design so well.

    The bottom line? Companies like trek make disposable bikes to those
    who actually ride and ride often in various terrrain.

    Also, before any of the doubters start claiming that Angry Man is a
    hack and breaks bikes by thrashing down the trail, those who post here
    and have ridden with him can testify that he rides as smooth as
    butter.

    JD

    One would think that if they take the design from Maverick and basically
    keep it exactly the same, one couldn't ruin it. Is it worth it to cut
    costs by using shoddy bolts? If you want to cut costs, use cheaper
    paint. Is it easier for them just to replace things everytime for free,
    rather than do it right the first time?

    I think it's fantastic because it really shows what all of the cookie
    cutter bike companies like to do. They try to copy a good design,
    change a few minor details to make it look original or "innovative",
    and then cut corners where they shouldn't, making a disposable bike in
    the process. Only a fool would ignore these sad facts.

    Sadly, the "selling" of designs by Maverick is exactly what the
    company was designed to do. Turner is a pro, and he has realized that
    there is more money nand fewer hassles involved in developing designs
    for other companies. Maverick produces just enough ML7's and
    Reposado's were produced in house in just enough numbers to drive up
    interest and "prove" the design.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I know you've probably hashed this out a million times in the NG.

    Yeah, so it only makes foolish people more the fool for ignoring it.

    Quoted message said:

    Where does Maverick produce their frames?

    I would wager to guess that Reco Diver knows and a quick phone call
    would tell me.

    AFAIK, Maverick is still producing things in limited numbers, in
    house. By doing so the company retains it image as a producer of only
    the best quality, while continuing their primary function ($) as a
    design reactor.

    R

  12. "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:
    From: "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I don't know the name of the move, but in a tight space when you want to turn
    the bike; lean forward until the rear wheel is off the ground, then swing the
    bike around until it's pointing in the direction you want to go and let the
    rear wheel drop to the ground.

    That's called a tailwhip. Angry does not do a lot of tailwhips. I
    think his was a matter of JRA because there was no specific move being
    done when he noticed the telltale creak.

    JD

  13. (Pete Cresswell) said:

    RE/

    Quoted message said:

    One would think that if they take the design from Maverick and basically
    keep it exactly the same, one couldn't ruin it. Is it worth it to cut
    costs by using shoddy bolts?

    In my case it's a SevenCycles and I don't think they'd chince out on
    anything...it's just not their niche.

    I'm no engineer, but my take is that it's an engineering judgement thing.
    Whoever designs it has to make tradeoffs between weight, durability,
    installability, servicability in the field, fault tolerance in unexpected
    situations and cost.

    They came up with something that was light and seemed to do the job at hand.

    One could hope that it will evolve into something that is more fault-tolerant or
    at least could be replaced in the field....But I'm not holding my breath until
    that happens.

    That is a kick-ass move! Ever since I saw it done in one of PF's
    videos, I've been practicing it. I can get about 1/2 way to where I
    want to be. Still a bit wussy to keep my ass-end in the air that long
    without thinking I'm going OTB.

    --
    o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
    www.schnauzers.ws

  14. RE/

    Quoted message said:

    Still a bit wussy to keep my ass-end in the air that long
    without thinking I'm going OTB.

    That's about where I am....don't feel like I can afford any unneccessary
    endos....
    --
    PeteCresswell

  15. "JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:
    From: "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I don't know the name of the move, but in a tight space when you want to


    turn

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the bike; lean forward until the rear wheel is off the ground, then


    swing the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    bike around until it's pointing in the direction you want to go and let


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    rear wheel drop to the ground.

    That's called a tailwhip. Angry does not do a lot of tailwhips. I
    think his was a matter of JRA because there was no specific move being
    done when he noticed the telltale creak.

    JD

    Hey JD,

    Have you hugged your kid today, this week, this month, this year?

    BBBWWAAHHAA

  16. "JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Ride-A-Lot <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    JD said:

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    >6.4 miles walk home...Whew!
    >
    >We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the


    frame -

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >conical head and conical bolt on each.

    They are cheesy. Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
    swingarm on the way from trek/klein. That's twice now that he's
    broken his trek/klein in less than two years of owning it. He doesn't
    mind making "the machine" (aka trek) replace his bike frames because
    it costs them, though he would prefer a Maverick American eventually
    because he rides that suspension design so well.

    The bottom line? Companies like trek make disposable bikes to those
    who actually ride and ride often in various terrrain.

    Also, before any of the doubters start claiming that Angry Man is a
    hack and breaks bikes by thrashing down the trail, those who post here
    and have ridden with him can testify that he rides as smooth as
    butter.

    JD

    One would think that if they take the design from Maverick and basically
    keep it exactly the same, one couldn't ruin it. Is it worth it to cut
    costs by using shoddy bolts? If you want to cut costs, use cheaper
    paint. Is it easier for them just to replace things everytime for free,
    rather than do it right the first time?

    I think it's fantastic because it really shows what all of the cookie
    cutter bike companies like to do. They try to copy a good design,
    change a few minor details to make it look original or "innovative",
    and then cut corners where they shouldn't, making a disposable bike in
    the process. Only a fool would ignore these sad facts.

    Quoted message said:

    I know you've probably hashed this out a million times in the NG.

    Yeah, so it only makes foolish people more the fool for ignoring it.

    Quoted message said:

    Where does Maverick produce their frames?

    I would wager to guess that Reco Diver knows and a quick phone call
    would tell me.

    JD

    Hey JD,

    Have you hugged your kid today, this week, this month, this year?

    BBBWWAAHHAA

  17. "JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    RE/

    Quoted message said:

    Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
    swingarm on the way from trek/klein.

    That confirms my suspicion that if I kept hammering on this thing after


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    break that the rear swing arm would be damaged. I'm assuming that


    Angry Man

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    also broke the bolt that connects to the swing arm.... Seems like the


    other

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    bolt doesn't get as much stress.

    He sheared both sides, maybe even simultaneously. They were too far
    down in at the break and loctited. So, a new swinger is on the way.

    JD

    Hey JD,

    Have you hugged your kid today, this week, this month, this year?

    BBBWWAAHHAA

  18. "JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

    We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the


    frame -

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    conical head and conical bolt on each.

    They are cheesy. Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
    swingarm on the way from trek/klein. That's twice now that he's
    broken his trek/klein in less than two years of owning it. He doesn't
    mind making "the machine" (aka trek) replace his bike frames because
    it costs them, though he would prefer a Maverick American eventually
    because he rides that suspension design so well.

    The bottom line? Companies like trek make disposable bikes to those
    who actually ride and ride often in various terrrain.

    Also, before any of the doubters start claiming that Angry Man is a
    hack and breaks bikes by thrashing down the trail, those who post here
    and have ridden with him can testify that he rides as smooth as
    butter.

    JD

    Hey JD,

    Have you hugged your kid today, this week, this month, this year?

    BBBWWAAHHAA

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