Matzoh Ball Leavener?

Andy Katz said:

[snip]
I've been on matzoh ball patrol since last month. [snip good
description]

Are you sure that your omission of the egg yolks isn't contributing to
the problem? My occasional less critical efforts are very similar to
yours except for that. (Much improved a few years ago by an rfc
suggestion to use the seltzer.) -aem

On Tue 19 Apr 2005 12:34:51p, Andy Katz wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Hello everyone,

I've been on matzoh ball patrol since last month. A visiting
chef from Austin who had never before tasted chopped liver had been
making them. His were light enough, but utterly lacking in flavor.

Flavor's no problem. I use schmaltz, chicken base in warm
water, seltzer, minced parsley, white pepper, and a bit of salt
folded into whipped egg whites, then folded into fine-ground matzoh
meal. (I stopped using whole eggs because I don't think the yolks add
that much flavor or richness and not having to separate them saves
crucial time). I'm looking for a texture still sticky enough to
require wetting my hands every sixth or seventh ball while rolling.

Rest that x 60 minutes or so, then simmer in salted water.
Problem is that they're a bit denser than some like. I can use baking
powder to lighten the further, but then they get too delicate and I
lose half or so when severs fish them out of the liquid to combine
with broth for service.

What about yeasted matzoh balls? Would something like that be
worth a try?

Would any other leaveners be practical?

Andy Katz

Most leaveners are listed here:

http://www.baking911.com/pantry/leaveners.htm

Given that this is for matzoh balls, I would stick with the baking powder,
but try using less.

I would have suggested beaten egg white, but you're already doing that.

--
Wayne Boatwright
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

Andy Katz said:

Hello everyone,

I've been on matzoh ball patrol since last month. A visiting
chef from Austin who had never before tasted chopped liver had been
making them. His were light enough, but utterly lacking in flavor.

Flavor's no problem. I use schmaltz, chicken base in warm
water, seltzer, minced parsley, white pepper, and a bit of salt
folded into whipped egg whites, then folded into fine-ground matzoh
meal. (I stopped using whole eggs because I don't think the yolks add
that much flavor or richness and not having to separate them saves
crucial time). I'm looking for a texture still sticky enough to
require wetting my hands every sixth or seventh ball while rolling.

Rest that x 60 minutes or so, then simmer in salted water.
Problem is that they're a bit denser than some like. I can use baking
powder to lighten the further, but then they get too delicate and I
lose half or so when severs fish them out of the liquid to combine
with broth for service.

What about yeasted matzoh balls? Would something like that be
worth a try?

no. it would be an abomination. as are the yolk-less eggs in your recipe.

Quoted message said:

Would any other leaveners be practical?

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

--

saerah

"I think there's a clause in the Shaman's and Jujumen's Local #57 Union
contract that they have to have reciprocity for each other's shop rules."
-König Prüß

Andy Katz said:

Hello everyone,

I've been on matzoh ball patrol since last month. A visiting
chef from Austin who had never before tasted chopped liver had been
making them. His were light enough, but utterly lacking in flavor.

Flavor's no problem. I use schmaltz, chicken base in warm
water, seltzer, minced parsley, white pepper, and a bit of salt
folded into whipped egg whites, then folded into fine-ground matzoh
meal. (I stopped using whole eggs because I don't think the yolks add
that much flavor or richness and not having to separate them saves
crucial time). I'm looking for a texture still sticky enough to
require wetting my hands every sixth or seventh ball while rolling.

Rest that x 60 minutes or so, then simmer in salted water.
Problem is that they're a bit denser than some like. I can use baking
powder to lighten the further, but then they get too delicate and I
lose half or so when severs fish them out of the liquid to combine
with broth for service.

What about yeasted matzoh balls? Would something like that be
worth a try?

Would any other leaveners be practical?

Andy Katz

As long as you do not plan to serve them during Passover to some
friends who observe that holiday, you can use a small amount of baking
soda or baking powder for the Matzo balls. I do not know how much you
would add. You cannot add yeast, as far as I know.

sarah bennett said:

Quoted message said:

What about yeasted matzoh balls? Would something like that be
worth a try?

no. it would be an abomination. as are the yolk-less eggs in your recipe.

Why abomination?

I was as surprised as anyone to discover that the yolkless matzoh
balls had excellent flavor. If, however, the yolks add something I'm
missing, then I'd be happy to add them back. Even when time
presses--as this coming weekend when we'll be serving our usual 200+
plus orders *plus* an additional four hundred or so--I can always add
whole eggs to the schmaltz/base/seltzer mix.

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

aem said:

Andy Katz said:

[snip]
I've been on matzoh ball patrol since last month. [snip good
description]

Are you sure that your omission of the egg yolks isn't contributing to
the problem? My occasional less critical efforts are very similar to
yours except for that. (Much improved a few years ago by an rfc
suggestion to use the seltzer.) -aem

Pretty sure. The yolks in fact seem to add density without doing that
much for the flavor side. I did try a version with about 10 yolks
added into maybe a quart of whipped white ... not much difference.

Plus my diners fret over cholesterol. So if I can lose some while
maintaining the dish's intergrity it's worthwhile to me.

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

Andy Katz said:

sarah bennett said:

Quoted message said:

What about yeasted matzoh balls? Would something like that be
worth a try?

no. it would be an abomination. as are the yolk-less eggs in your recipe.

Why abomination?

i dont know. its just wrong. eh. i suppose this is another "tam v'reach"
sort of thing.

Quoted message said:

I was as surprised as anyone to discover that the yolkless matzoh
balls had excellent flavor. If, however, the yolks add something I'm
missing, then I'd be happy to add them back. Even when time
presses--as this coming weekend when we'll be serving our usual 200+
plus orders *plus* an additional four hundred or so--I can always add
whole eggs to the schmaltz/base/seltzer mix.

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

--

saerah

"I think there's a clause in the Shaman's and Jujumen's Local #57 Union
contract that they have to have reciprocity for each other's shop rules."
-König Prüß

Margaret Suran said:

Andy Katz said:

Hello everyone,

I've been on matzoh ball patrol since last month. A visiting
chef from Austin who had never before tasted chopped liver had been
making them. His were light enough, but utterly lacking in flavor.
Flavor's no problem. I use schmaltz, chicken base in warm
water, seltzer, minced parsley, white pepper, and a bit of salt
folded into whipped egg whites, then folded into fine-ground matzoh
meal. (I stopped using whole eggs because I don't think the yolks add
that much flavor or richness and not having to separate them saves
crucial time). I'm looking for a texture still sticky enough to
require wetting my hands every sixth or seventh ball while rolling.

Rest that x 60 minutes or so, then simmer in salted water.
Problem is that they're a bit denser than some like. I can use baking
powder to lighten the further, but then they get too delicate and I
lose half or so when severs fish them out of the liquid to combine
with broth for service.
What about yeasted matzoh balls? Would something like that be
worth a try?

Would any other leaveners be practical?

Andy Katz

As long as you do not plan to serve them during Passover to some friends
who observe that holiday, you can use a small amount of baking soda or
baking powder for the Matzo balls. I do not know how much you would
add. You cannot add yeast, as far as I know.

Yeast might be an abomination traditionally speaking, but it's still
Kosher except during Passover.

Best regards,
Bob

zxcvbob said:

Margaret Suran said:

As long as you do not plan to serve them during Passover to some

friends

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who observe that holiday, you can use a small amount of baking soda

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

baking powder for the Matzo balls. I do not know how much you

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

add. You cannot add yeast, as far as I know.

Yeast might be an abomination traditionally speaking, but it's still
Kosher except during Passover.

Yeah, but... with yeast then they'd no longer qualify as matzoh
balls... they'd be bread balls.

To make matzo balls poofy I use seltza as the liquid... that's what my
mother did, and her mother before her... my matzoh balls are light,
like pillows of the finest eider down, so melt in your mouth poofy
you'll think they're cotton candy... so light they float upon the soup
like ping pong balls... make sure to keep all windows shut or if a
breeze kicks up they'll be blown right out of your soup bowl.

Sheldon

Sheldon said:

To make matzo balls poofy I use seltza as the liquid... that's what my
mother did, and her mother before her... my matzoh balls are light,
like pillows of the finest eider down, so melt in your mouth poofy
you'll think they're cotton candy... so light they float upon the soup
like ping pong balls... make sure to keep all windows shut or if a
breeze kicks up they'll be blown right out of your soup bowl.

....and mebbe down into a gal's bazoom...???

--
Bets
Greg

Andy Katz said:

sarah bennett said:

Quoted message said:

What about yeasted matzoh balls? Would something like that be
worth a try?

no. it would be an abomination. as are the yolk-less eggs in your recipe.

Why abomination?

I was as surprised as anyone to discover that the yolkless matzoh
balls had excellent flavor. If, however, the yolks add something I'm
missing, then I'd be happy to add them back. Even when time
presses--as this coming weekend when we'll be serving our usual 200+
plus orders *plus* an additional four hundred or so--I can always add
whole eggs to the schmaltz/base/seltzer mix.

Andy Katz

Yeast is an abomination because it's during Passover. The KJV Bible
calls Passover "The Feast of Unleavened Bread", which is a good
descriptive name. No yeast is a major point of the meal, signifying
that when the Jews were preparing to eave Egypt, they were to bake their
bread without leavening, and eat it in haste with their sandals on their
feet and fully dressed and ready to move out. (Exodus 12:11) Even
non-observant Jews would be upset if you served them matzoh with yeast
added during Passover. (If they ask for a ham sandwich with cheese,
they know what they are getting.)

Jews take Passover seriously. IIRC, it is the second highest holy day
of the year, after Yom Kippur (a.k.a. "The Day of Atonement"😉

I would not add baking powder nor even baking soda to lighten them
during Passover unless you are cooking for your immediate family and
know it's OK. Baking powder often contains corn starch, and baking
powder and baking soda are both chemical leavening agents and sort of
violate the spirit of Passover if not the actual law -- as such they are
contraversial, and different rabbis do not even agree whether they can
be used during passover. If it's not *your* controversy, it's best not
to step in it.

Yeast *is* kosher except during Passover, but I dunno that I would use
it in matzoh balls anyway because the whole point of using matzoh is to
avoid yeast, and adding yeast would violate the tradition.

Best regards,
Bob

Andy Katz at [email hidden] wrote on 4/19/05 3:34 PM:

Quoted message said:

Hello everyone,

I've been on matzoh ball patrol since last month. A visiting
chef from Austin who had never before tasted chopped liver had been
making them. His were light enough, but utterly lacking in flavor.

Flavor's no problem. I use schmaltz, chicken base in warm
water, seltzer, minced parsley, white pepper, and a bit of salt
folded into whipped egg whites, then folded into fine-ground matzoh
meal. (I stopped using whole eggs because I don't think the yolks add
that much flavor or richness and not having to separate them saves
crucial time). I'm looking for a texture still sticky enough to
require wetting my hands every sixth or seventh ball while rolling.

Rest that x 60 minutes or so, then simmer in salted water.
Problem is that they're a bit denser than some like. I can use baking
powder to lighten the further, but then they get too delicate and I
lose half or so when severs fish them out of the liquid to combine
with broth for service.

What about yeasted matzoh balls? Would something like that be
worth a try?

Would any other leaveners be practical?

No. Absolutely not.
Leavening is completely inappropriate in matzoh balls.
Especially for passover.

The flavor in matzo balls comes from the schmaltz, for one thing, salt and
pepper and onion for another, and finally cooking them in a flavorful broth.

Your problem is you're not letting them rest long enough and you're cooking
them in water.

You're way overthinking matzo balls. My mother (god rest her soul) made the
fluffiest matzo balls in the world. Beaten egg. Whole eggs. Not separated.
No folding matzo meal into meringue. In fact, now that I think of it, most
of the last few years of her life she made them with "Egg Beaters". Her
secret was not seltzer water, either. It was a good long rest in the fridge.
2-3 hours. And a sticky mixture. In fact, she followed the recipe on the
back of the box of Manichewitz Matzo Meal. And simmer them, covered, in
BROTH for at least 40 minutes. She also didn't pack them tightly. Barely
handled them, in fact, just rolled them enough with wet hands to make smooth
walnut sized balls.

This is how I make matzo balls to this day. The fluffiest matzo balls this
side of my mom's.

If cholesterol is a problem, use the egg beaters. They don't suffer, as
long as you cook them in the broth. Yeah, I know, they absorb a lot of
broth when you cook them in it, but that's where the flavor is.

Gregory Morrow said:

Sheldon said:

To make matzo balls poofy I use seltza as the liquid... that's what

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mother did, and her mother before her... my matzoh balls are light,
like pillows of the finest eider down, so melt in your mouth poofy
you'll think they're cotton candy... so light they float upon the

soup

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like ping pong balls... make sure to keep all windows shut or if a
breeze kicks up they'll be blown right out of your soup bowl.

...and mebbe down into a gal's bazoom...???

Hmm, now yer talking different balls.

Sheldon

Sheryl Rosen said:

No. Absolutely not.
Leavening is completely inappropriate in matzoh balls.
Especially for passover.

Okay. I agree, most recipes do without any leavener aside from egg
whites (though whipped whites do predominate). As for passover.

Quoted message said:

The flavor in matzo balls comes from the schmaltz, for one thing, salt and
pepper and onion for another, and finally cooking them in a flavorful broth.

Your problem is you're not letting them rest long enough and you're cooking
them in water.

I don't have a flavorful broth. I can and do use base to make a
cooking liquid, but it gets salty faster than it develops full flavor.
I can try to compensate by reducing the added salt in the balls, as
though they were fresh-made pasta, but the broth's not going to be
first-rate.

As for resting ... did your mother rest the balls or the batter (or
both?)?

I do value rest for batters and doughs, and it seems to me that ours
have rested at least that long, though I couldn't say the exact time.

Quoted message said:

You're way overthinking matzo balls. My mother (god rest her soul) made the
fluffiest matzo balls in the world. Beaten egg. Whole eggs. Not separated.
No folding matzo meal into meringue. In fact, now that I think of it, most
of the last few years of her life she made them with "Egg Beaters". Her
secret was not seltzer water, either. It was a good long rest in the fridge.
2-3 hours. And a sticky mixture. In fact, she followed the recipe on the
back of the box of Manichewitz Matzo Meal. And simmer them, covered, in
BROTH for at least 40 minutes. She also didn't pack them tightly. Barely
handled them, in fact, just rolled them enough with wet hands to make smooth
walnut sized balls.

Okay. That's about the size we've been using. And certainly
overhanding dough isn't the key fluffiness.

What kind of matzoh meal did she use? Was it fine, or medium or
coarse?

Quoted message said:

This is how I make matzo balls to this day. The fluffiest matzo balls this
side of my mom's.

If cholesterol is a problem, use the egg beaters. They don't suffer, as
long as you cook them in the broth. Yeah, I know, they absorb a lot of
broth when you cook them in it, but that's where the flavor is.

Alas ... not in our case:-(

Thanks for the tips.

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

Andy Katz at [email hidden] wrote on 4/21/05 5:48 PM:

Quoted message said:

I don't have a flavorful broth. I can and do use base to make a
cooking liquid, but it gets salty faster than it develops full flavor.
I can try to compensate by reducing the added salt in the balls, as
though they were fresh-made pasta, but the broth's not going to be
first-rate.

Gotta be honest here....at least half the time, Mom used soup base (or
powder). I, myself, half the time, use soup base. For something pretty
darn close to homemade tasting, use half as much soup base as the package
calls for per quantity of water, and add aromatics (onion, carrots, celery,
fresh dill weed, parsley...) I slice the carrots and celery in serving
sized pieces, and leave the onion whole, so it's easy to fish out. Simmer
the veggies for an hour or so in the broth. It makes a world of
difference.

And yeah, if using the soup base, cut back on the salt in the matzo ball
batter.

Quoted message said:

As for resting ... did your mother rest the balls or the batter (or
both?)?

The batter. I make mine in the morning and let them rest 7-8 hours. It
doesn't hurt.

Quoted message said:

I do value rest for batters and doughs, and it seems to me that ours
have rested at least that long, though I couldn't say the exact time.

Quoted message said:

You're way overthinking matzo balls. My mother (god rest her soul) made the
fluffiest matzo balls in the world. Beaten egg. Whole eggs. Not separated.
No folding matzo meal into meringue. In fact, now that I think of it, most
of the last few years of her life she made them with "Egg Beaters". Her
secret was not seltzer water, either. It was a good long rest in the fridge.
2-3 hours. And a sticky mixture. In fact, she followed the recipe on the
back of the box of Manichewitz Matzo Meal. And simmer them, covered, in
BROTH for at least 40 minutes. She also didn't pack them tightly. Barely
handled them, in fact, just rolled them enough with wet hands to make smooth
walnut sized balls.

Okay. That's about the size we've been using. And certainly
overhanding dough isn't the key fluffiness.

I tried the seltzer water "trick" a few years ago in my matzo balls and my
dad didn't like them---he felt they were greasy. I went back to no seltzer
and he liked them better. Me too. I no longer bother with seltzer anymore.
Mom simply used eggs, schmaltz, matzo meal, onion powder, salt and pepper.
And funny, I read an article on epicurious.com that a taste test was done
and they felt also felt the seltzer water interfered with the matzo meal
emulsifying with the fats. Might be true.

Quoted message said:

What kind of matzoh meal did she use? Was it fine, or medium or
coarse?

Manishewitz.
I had no idea there were different grades of matzo meal. I've never seen it
labeled fine, medium or coarse.

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:34:51 GMT, Andy Katz
<[email hidden]> connected the dots and wrote:

~Hello everyone,
~
~ I've been on matzoh ball patrol since last month. A visiting
~chef from Austin who had never before tasted chopped liver had been
~making them. His were light enough, but utterly lacking in flavor.
~
~ Flavor's no problem. I use schmaltz, chicken base in warm
~water, seltzer, minced parsley, white pepper, and a bit of salt
~folded into whipped egg whites, then folded into fine-ground matzoh
~meal. (I stopped using whole eggs because I don't think the yolks add
~that much flavor or richness and not having to separate them saves
~crucial time). I'm looking for a texture still sticky enough to
~require wetting my hands every sixth or seventh ball while rolling.
~
~ Rest that x 60 minutes or so, then simmer in salted water.
~Problem is that they're a bit denser than some like. I can use baking
~powder to lighten the further, but then they get too delicate and I
~lose half or so when severs fish them out of the liquid to combine
~with broth for service.
~
~ What about yeasted matzoh balls? Would something like that be
~worth a try?
~
~ Would any other leaveners be practical?

matzoh balls are made from cooked ground matzoh, so they won't work
with yeast.

I never separate the eggs, just mix the matza meal with the liquid
stuff, plus ginger, onion, and garlic, let the stuff sit in the fridge
overnight, and then boil the balls and they come out very light and
fluffy. I use very little matza meal, so that what goes into the
fridge is almost like a thick soup, but when it's ready to form and
boil, (well simmer), it's firm enough to hold it's shape.

and no, I drink the seltzer, and use soup or water for liquid.

maxine in ri

Sheryl Rosen said:

Mom simply used eggs, schmaltz, matzo meal, onion powder, salt and pepper.

Mom's are matzoh meal, eggs, lots of diced onions cooked in her already
oniony schmaltz, salt, and TONS of black pepper. Simmered in chicken
soup made of just skinned chicken (the skin is taken off to make the
schmaltz), onions, celery, carrots, salt, pepper, and water.

serene
--
http://serenejournal.livejournal.com
http://www.jhuger.com

Sheryl Rosen said:

Andy Katz at [email hidden] wrote on 4/21/05 5:48 PM:

Gotta be honest here....at least half the time, Mom used soup base (or
powder). I, myself, half the time, use soup base. For something pretty
darn close to homemade tasting, use half as much soup base as the package
calls for per quantity of water, and add aromatics (onion, carrots, celery,
fresh dill weed, parsley...) I slice the carrots and celery in serving
sized pieces, and leave the onion whole, so it's easy to fish out. Simmer
the veggies for an hour or so in the broth. It makes a world of
difference.

And yeah, if using the soup base, cut back on the salt in the matzo ball
batter.

Wait a second. I may be misreading something.
There can be two sets of liquids: the chic soup and the liquid in
which the dumplings are boiled*.
Which liquid are you building with the soup base? - Mike

* some folks make the chic soup, then make dumpling in that soup,
clouding it up. I've been trying salted water for the cooking.

Michael Horowitz at [email hidden] wrote on 4/24/05 8:04
AM:

Quoted message said:

Sheryl Rosen said:

Andy Katz at [email hidden] wrote on 4/21/05 5:48 PM:

Gotta be honest here....at least half the time, Mom used soup base (or
powder). I, myself, half the time, use soup base. For something pretty
darn close to homemade tasting, use half as much soup base as the package
calls for per quantity of water, and add aromatics (onion, carrots, celery,
fresh dill weed, parsley...) I slice the carrots and celery in serving
sized pieces, and leave the onion whole, so it's easy to fish out. Simmer
the veggies for an hour or so in the broth. It makes a world of
difference.

And yeah, if using the soup base, cut back on the salt in the matzo ball
batter.

Wait a second. I may be misreading something.
There can be two sets of liquids: the chic soup and the liquid in
which the dumplings are boiled*.
Which liquid are you building with the soup base? - Mike

* some folks make the chic soup, then make dumpling in that soup,
clouding it up. I've been trying salted water for the cooking.

I cook the matzo balls IN the soup.
That's how my mom did it. Anything else seems odd to me.

And matzo balls cooked in the soup absorb a lot of the broth, but they also
taste wonderful and turn a lovely yellow color. I've had 'em at my various
aunts' houses, they cooks them in salted water and they are this pale, dull
grayish-white color, for one thing, and they are not as tasty. My mom was
the rebel in the bunch, I guess. She was lazy, she just plopped them in the
pot of soup.

I don't mind a cloudy soup. One aunt actually puts the veggies from the soup
into the blender and adds them into the soup. It clouds it up but it adds
tremendous flavor and a little texture. Another aunt objects to that...it's
a constant source of nagging between the two sisters, actually. Little did I
know this, 3 years ago, when we had the seder at one aunt's house, and I
stayed at the other's. For supper the second night, she made her version of
the soup and matzo balls. I got the "they absorb too much broth" lecture
from her, as I watched her try to boil 5 qts of water in a Corning Visions
dutch oven...it took FOREVER!!!! At that point, I wondered if I should be
taking cooking tips from someone who didn't know that Visions pots stink at
boiling water. I tasted the soup though and said "This is delicious! Aunt
A's soup was good, but this is better....what's different??" and Aunt R.
laughed and told me about this contention that the other one's husband (my
uncle) would not eat her chicken soup with matzo balls b/c "it wasn't
perfectly clear".

Me? I slice the carrots and celery in the food processor and let them cook
in the soup that way. I like having slices of carrot in the soup bowl. It's
pretty to me. Last night, I floated a sprig of dill weed in the soup bowls.
Very pretty and tasty, too. We all LOVE dill!!!