Match Sprint Tactics

Quoted message said:

Why does leading rider sometimes build the speed up before jumping?

If he doesn't get the speed up sooner or later, the guy in second
position will jump first and just whiz by him with no hope for
recovery. If you can't see the guy behind you and are at such a
disadvantage, the least you can do is make him work hard at passing
you. If the speed is high, you have a chance at countering him. But
you'll still likely lose.

Quoted message said:

Why does the trailing rider allow a 3 or 4 length gap to appear before
anyone jumps?

To better keep an eye on the guy and know what his true intentions are.
You can easily see from his body movements what he'll do. 3-4 lengths
is not that hard to make up, especially if you already knew that he's
about to go

Andy Morris said:

I watched the match sprints at Manchester velodrome last Saturday and feel
that I don't really understand the tactics.

I understand about drafting and getting the other person to jump first, but
I can't figure out a couple of other things.

Why does leading rider sometimes build the speed up before jumping?

Sprinters play to their own strengths, and against the perceived
weaknesses of their opponent. Some can jump hard from a dead
standstill, but not hold their top speed for too long. They will
naturally be hoping for a late, short sprint. Others may not be able to
jump as hard, but can hold their top-end speed longer. They will try to
force the trailing rider to jump early.

Quoted message said:

Why does the trailing rider allow a 3 or 4 length gap to appear before
anyone jumps?

This doesn't seem right to me. Most match sprints I've seen don't let
such a big gap open, unless one of the riders is way up the banking,
daring the other rider to jump first.

Steve

Quoted message said:

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Andy Morris said:

I watched the match sprints at Manchester velodrome last Saturday and feel
that I don't really understand the tactics.

paging Warren.

Mark & Steven Bornfeld said:

Andy Morris said:

I watched the match sprints at Manchester velodrome last Saturday and feel
that I don't really understand the tactics.

I understand about drafting and getting the other person to jump first, but
I can't figure out a couple of other things.

Why does leading rider sometimes build the speed up before jumping?

If you are in front, you might want to make the race unfold such that
you reach maximum speed as close to the finish line as possible. This
puts the second rider in a quandary (should I pass now? Now? NOW??).
If you are far from the line and jump all at once, you will reach your
top speed while your opponent benefits from your draft, and then takes
the opportunity to use the bit of energy he has saved in this way to
get past you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why does the trailing rider allow a 3 or 4 length gap to appear before
anyone jumps?

This doesn't seem right to me. Most match sprints I've seen don't let
such a big gap open, unless one of the riders is way up the banking,
daring the other rider to jump first.

Three or four lengths isn't so much. There are a couple of reasons
this might be advisable:

1. You are in the back but also higher on the banking. The potential
energy you have stored will give you back those few lengths (and
possibly more - AND by being behind the rider he may not see your jump,
which can be worth a WHOLE LOT of lengths if you get it right).

2. You want to take a run at him. You want to time your sprint so
that you enter his slipstream at a higher rate of speed than he is
travelling so that when you pull out of his slipstream and hit unbroken
air, you have a little momentum in your favor. This requires good
timing and, in my experience, is most important when you and your
opponent are evenly matched.

3. You want to avoid any possibility of your opponent controlling you.
If you are parked right on his bumper, he can stall before jumping, or
roll up track and make your passing lane effectively smaller in width
or longer in length (within the rules of course, the enforcement of
which varies A LOT depending on where you are, who is riding, and who
is in the blue shirt).

4. You are confident that you are much, much faster than your opponent
and want to either show off, force him into going really long, or want
to give yourself a challenge.

Two anecdotes of #3 and #4. When I was fairly inexperienced I rode a
2-up sprint against Nothstein. I parked myself right on his backwheel
as we rode around the top of the banking. He was going to win and we
both knew that, but he took the opportunity to have some fun with it.
As we rolled down the banking in turn four he put backpressure on the
pedals, and even though I reacted quickly I had to do the same even
harder and got all bunched toward the front of my bike. He could've
jumped right then and gotten a gap just that way, but didn't. He
waited another half lap before doing that.

A few years ago I had a 2-up match against a good endurance rider at
Collegiate Nats. He was quick but I qualified about half a sec faster,
which is a big advantage. It was the first round so I was expecting an
easy ride. I decided I would give him several lengths, induce him to
ge the speed up, and roll into his slipstream before sailing around
him. With a lap and a half to to I let out some rope... 6 lengths, 7
lengths, nothing to worry about, it's still a long way to go... hmmm,
maybe that is too much now (about 10 lengths) - and at that moment he
jumps all out. Oh [censored]. I jump for all I'm worth and now I've got to
sprint for 500 meters all out AND make up about 30 meters. I got him
in the final straight, but it took me about half an hour to catch my
breath, and that was supposed to be an easy win!

-RJ

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

Mark & Steven Bornfeld said:

Andy Morris said:

I watched the match sprints at Manchester velodrome last Saturday and feel
that I don't really understand the tactics.

I understand about drafting and getting the other person to jump first, but
I can't figure out a couple of other things.

Why does leading rider sometimes build the speed up before jumping?

If you are in front, you might want to make the race unfold such that
you reach maximum speed as close to the finish line as possible. This
puts the second rider in a quandary (should I pass now? Now? NOW??).
If you are far from the line and jump all at once, you will reach your
top speed while your opponent benefits from your draft, and then takes
the opportunity to use the bit of energy he has saved in this way to
get past you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why does the trailing rider allow a 3 or 4 length gap to appear before
anyone jumps?

This doesn't seem right to me. Most match sprints I've seen don't let
such a big gap open, unless one of the riders is way up the banking,
daring the other rider to jump first.

Three or four lengths isn't so much. There are a couple of reasons
this might be advisable:

1. You are in the back but also higher on the banking. The potential
energy you have stored will give you back those few lengths (and
possibly more - AND by being behind the rider he may not see your jump,
which can be worth a WHOLE LOT of lengths if you get it right).

2. You want to take a run at him. You want to time your sprint so
that you enter his slipstream at a higher rate of speed than he is
travelling so that when you pull out of his slipstream and hit unbroken
air, you have a little momentum in your favor. This requires good
timing and, in my experience, is most important when you and your
opponent are evenly matched.

3. You want to avoid any possibility of your opponent controlling you.
If you are parked right on his bumper, he can stall before jumping, or
roll up track and make your passing lane effectively smaller in width
or longer in length (within the rules of course, the enforcement of
which varies A LOT depending on where you are, who is riding, and who
is in the blue shirt).

4. You are confident that you are much, much faster than your opponent
and want to either show off, force him into going really long, or want
to give yourself a challenge.

Two anecdotes of #3 and #4. When I was fairly inexperienced I rode a
2-up sprint against Nothstein. I parked myself right on his backwheel
as we rode around the top of the banking. He was going to win and we
both knew that, but he took the opportunity to have some fun with it.
As we rolled down the banking in turn four he put backpressure on the
pedals, and even though I reacted quickly I had to do the same even
harder and got all bunched toward the front of my bike. He could've
jumped right then and gotten a gap just that way, but didn't. He
waited another half lap before doing that.

A few years ago I had a 2-up match against a good endurance rider at
Collegiate Nats. He was quick but I qualified about half a sec faster,
which is a big advantage. It was the first round so I was expecting an
easy ride. I decided I would give him several lengths, induce him to
ge the speed up, and roll into his slipstream before sailing around
him. With a lap and a half to to I let out some rope... 6 lengths, 7
lengths, nothing to worry about, it's still a long way to go... hmmm,
maybe that is too much now (about 10 lengths) - and at that moment he
jumps all out. Oh [censored]. I jump for all I'm worth and now I've got to
sprint for 500 meters all out AND make up about 30 meters. I got him
in the final straight, but it took me about half an hour to catch my
breath, and that was supposed to be an easy win!

-RJ

Great illustrations...thanks!

Steve

Quoted message said:

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ronaldo_jeremiah said:

If you are in front, you might want to make the race unfold such that
you reach maximum speed as close to the finish line as possible.

Dumbass -

That's not quite 100% right.

If you're the front rider, you want to *accelerate all the way to the
line*. It's very difficult for the guy in back to come around a rider
who's accelerating because he has to match the acceleration and add
some extra to get around. Not an easy task. What's easy is when the
front rider is maxed out and the closer he gets to maxed out, the
slower he's accelerating.

Your statement is mostly right, but determining when to begin
accelerating all the way to the line is a complicated equation: gotta
take into account 1) distance to the line, 2) current velocity, 3)
relative positions, 4) strengths/weaknesses of the opponent vs. 5)
strengths/weaknesses of yourself, and that equation changes with every
passing second as variables 1-3 change.

Then there's "floating" and all the other stuff once the acceleration
starts. Then there's "making space" if you're the back guy.

and so on.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Dumbass -

You are right. My explanation was perhaps overly simplistic, but then
I didn't mean for it to be as complicated as the Roger Young training
manual for sprinters.

By the way, Kurgan, your remark in the Cat 2 only races thread made me
recall something that happened once when I was in a race with you at SC
velodrome. It was a miss and out, maybe 20 or 30 riders in the pack.
I had only been to a few races at that track and didn't know all the
names, faces, and reputations. Anyway, somebody rode into your back
wheel and took out a bunch of spokes, but nobody fell down. Your wheel
was trashed but still rolling, so you just went on riding. At the time
I was thinking "this dumbass is going to keep riding on this
about-to-collapse wheel and get one of us killed so he can win the
fredly $10 prize for the-guy-who-finishes-second-to-Framebender." But
it didn't collapse.

I don't remember what happened. Framebender won the race though - not
that I remember that. I just know he did cause he won every race that
year.

-RJ

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

Dumbass -

You are right. My explanation was perhaps overly simplistic, but then
I didn't mean for it to be as complicated as the Roger Young training
manual for sprinters.

By the way, Kurgan, your remark in the Cat 2 only races thread made me
recall something that happened once when I was in a race with you at SC
velodrome. It was a miss and out, maybe 20 or 30 riders in the pack.
I had only been to a few races at that track and didn't know all the
names, faces, and reputations. Anyway, somebody rode into your back
wheel and took out a bunch of spokes, but nobody fell down. Your wheel
was trashed but still rolling, so you just went on riding. At the time
I was thinking "this dumbass is going to keep riding on this
about-to-collapse wheel and get one of us killed so he can win the
fredly $10 prize for the-guy-who-finishes-second-to-Framebender." But
it didn't collapse.

I don't remember what happened. Framebender won the race though - not
that I remember that. I just know he did cause he won every race that
year.

Dumbass -

Good story. I did so many races over so many years that I don't even
remember that.

On Framebender: that dude had that ridiculous top end, but in previous
years he didn't have the endurance/recovery to dominate. Then that
year, on the way back on the Wednesday ride, I'd see him doing base
miles, solo. I thought, "oh oh that's trouble" because those base miles
might be able to improve his recovery/endurance and boy, did it. He
kicked our collective asses all year long. My "roadie fitness" was of
no use against him.

The only tactic I had to beat him was to try to wait for a lull in the
pace 2-3 laps from the end, launch an attack and hope that nobody would
cooperate with him. It worked only a few times 'cause you'd need a 20+
bike length lead going into the last lap to keep from getting caught
when he surged.

There was no "glory" for us scrubs.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

Dumbass -

You are right. My explanation was perhaps overly simplistic, but then
I didn't mean for it to be as complicated as the Roger Young training
manual for sprinters.

By the way, Kurgan, your remark in the Cat 2 only races thread made me
recall something that happened once when I was in a race with you at SC
velodrome. It was a miss and out, maybe 20 or 30 riders in the pack.
I had only been to a few races at that track and didn't know all the
names, faces, and reputations. Anyway, somebody rode into your back
wheel and took out a bunch of spokes, but nobody fell down. Your wheel
was trashed but still rolling, so you just went on riding. At the time
I was thinking "this dumbass is going to keep riding on this
about-to-collapse wheel and get one of us killed so he can win the
fredly $10 prize for the-guy-who-finishes-second-to-Framebender." But
it didn't collapse.

I don't remember what happened. Framebender won the race though - not
that I remember that. I just know he did cause he won every race that
year.

Dumbass -

Good story. I did so many races over so many years that I don't even
remember that.

On Framebender: that dude had that ridiculous top end, but in previous
years he didn't have the endurance/recovery to dominate. Then that
year, on the way back on the Wednesday ride, I'd see him doing base
miles, solo. I thought, "oh oh that's trouble" because those base miles
might be able to improve his recovery/endurance and boy, did it. He
kicked our collective asses all year long. My "roadie fitness" was of
no use against him.

The only tactic I had to beat him was to try to wait for a lull in the
pace 2-3 laps from the end, launch an attack and hope that nobody would
cooperate with him. It worked only a few times 'cause you'd need a 20+
bike length lead going into the last lap to keep from getting caught
when he surged.

There was no "glory" for us scrubs.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Who was "Framebender"?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Dave Bittenbender.

-RJ

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

Dave Bittenbender.

Didn't his Dad buy the Vandedrome or something like that?

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

Dave Bittenbender.

-RJ

Thanks!

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001