Mari Holden - Still Alive?

Ken Very Big Liar said:

What's up with her? Website has old content, no showing at the World's TT...

---
Kelly Beard, a.k.a. Mr. K.V.B. Liar

I thought she was riding for TMO (T-Mobile)

She rode some World Cup events this year too.

--
le vent a Dos

Davey Crockett

"Ken Very Big Liar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What's up with her? Website has old content, no showing at the World's

TT...

Quoted message said:

---
Kelly Beard, a.k.a. Mr. K.V.B. Liar

That website is pretty awful. Yeah, Mari is probaby still high on TT victories from the past which
isn't that much to brag about. She hasn't won anything to speak of in quite a while. Word is she has
been eating too much Ice Cream. Also some people think Mari looks like an alien.

B-

She looked pretty strong in SF.

littlechainring.comsfgp%20306.jpgOpen ↗

Mark VandenBerghe

"Bruce Johnston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Very Big Liar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What's up with her? Website has old content, no showing at the World's

TT...

Quoted message said:

---
Kelly Beard, a.k.a. Mr. K.V.B. Liar

That website is pretty awful. Yeah, Mari is probaby still high on TT victories from the past which
isn't that much to brag about. She hasn't

won

Quoted message said:

anything to speak of in quite a while. Word is she has been eating too

much

Quoted message said:

Ice Cream. Also some people think Mari looks like an alien.

B-

Davey Crockett <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ken Very Big Liar said:

What's up with her? Website has old content, no showing at the World's TT...

---
Kelly Beard, a.k.a. Mr. K.V.B. Liar

I thought she was riding for TMO (T-Mobile)

She rode some World Cup events this year too.

She also was racing at San Rafael and San Francisco last month, Sept. 13-14.

-Ken

In article said:

"Ken Very Big Liar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What's up with her? Website has old content, no showing at the World's

TT...

Quoted message said:

---
Kelly Beard, a.k.a. Mr. K.V.B. Liar

That website is pretty awful. Yeah, Mari is probaby still high on TT victories from the past which
isn't that much to brag about. She hasn't won anything to speak of in quite a while. Word is she
has been eating too much Ice Cream. Also some people think Mari looks like an alien.

B-

I wouldn't go so far as to say awful. Horribly out of date, maybe, but not awful...

Mari has been focusing more on track this year, looking to do well in the pursuit.

As Ken pointed out, she was also in San Fran for both races. I am 99% sure she did the Giro, but
don't recall.

She just hasn't sent me much content and I don't have time to followe her around.

Scott Webmaster - MariHolden.com

--
-*- Scott Patton -*- Colorado Springs, CO -*- fixedgearfever.comfixedgearfever.comOpen ↗ -*- Track Racing
Web Services

Mari appears to be on the receiving end of flagrant favorable treatment from the US National team
most likely as payback because she won silver in Sydney and took the rainbow jersey at Worlds that
same year. Actually everyone knows Leontien van Moorsel was the real world champion TT'er in 2000
(Mari only won the rainbow because van Moorsel skipped Worlds after the Olympics). I mean, everybody
knows the best men TTers are Ullrich and Armstrong, not the guy who wins Worlds.

Mari isn't even within 4 minutes of the winner anymore at US Nationals ITT, and it's very unclear
how she could have even qualified for the Worlds road team this year considering she hasn't won (or
podiumed?) in a single NRC race in the past 3 years.

Her spot on T-Mobile is doing nothing but retarding the development of younger riders with more
potential who better deserve the opportunity.

Her website is a reflection of her complete lack of results in the past 3 years. She'll likely
finish 20 minutes down in the road race on Saturday and then right afterwards sign a 2 year
extention with T-Mobile.

Politics as usual.

Racer X

Ken Very Big Liar said:

What's up with her? Website has old content, no showing at the World's TT...

---
Kelly Beard, a.k.a. Mr. K.V.B. Liar

"Mark VandenBerghe" <>...

Quoted message said:

She looked pretty strong in SF. littlechainring.comsfgp%20306.jpgOpen ↗ Mark
VandenBerghe

Nice expression there!

I'll have to post my favorite Holden Fillmore photo too I hope I remember to do this tonight....

-Ken

Quoted message said:

"Bruce Johnston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Very Big Liar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What's up with her? Website has old content, no showing at the World's

TT...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

---
Kelly Beard, a.k.a. Mr. K.V.B. Liar

That website is pretty awful. Yeah, Mari is probaby still high on TT victories from the past
which isn't that much to brag about. She hasn't

won

Quoted message said:

anything to speak of in quite a while. Word is she has been eating too

much

Quoted message said:

Ice Cream. Also some people think Mari looks like an alien.

Not really?!

Bruce you might look like an alien too dude!

-kjp

"RACER X" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mari appears to be on the receiving end of flagrant favorable treatment

from the

Quoted message said:

US National team most likely as payback because she won silver in Sydney

and

Quoted message said:

took the rainbow jersey at Worlds that same year. Actually everyone knows Leontien van Moorsel was
the real world champion TT'er in 2000 (Mari only

won

Quoted message said:

the rainbow because van Moorsel skipped Worlds after the Olympics). I

mean,

Quoted message said:

everybody knows the best men TTers are Ullrich and Armstrong, not the guy

who

Quoted message said:

wins Worlds.

Mari isn't even within 4 minutes of the winner anymore at US Nationals

ITT, and

Quoted message said:

it's very unclear how she could have even qualified for the Worlds road

team

Quoted message said:

this year considering she hasn't won (or podiumed?) in a single NRC race

in the

Quoted message said:

past 3 years.

Her spot on T-Mobile is doing nothing but retarding the development of

younger

Quoted message said:

riders with more potential who better deserve the opportunity.

Her website is a reflection of her complete lack of results in the past 3 years. She'll likely
finish 20 minutes down in the road race on Saturday

and

Quoted message said:

then right afterwards sign a 2 year extention with T-Mobile.

Politics as usual.

Racer X

Exactly! You sound very much like someone I know.

Quoted message said:

Ken Very Big Liar said:

What's up with her? Website has old content, no showing at the World's

TT...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

---
Kelly Beard, a.k.a. Mr. K.V.B. Liar

RACER X <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mari appears to be on the receiving end of flagrant favorable treatment from the US National team
most likely as payback because she won silver in Sydney and took the rainbow jersey at Worlds that
same year. Actually everyone knows Leontien van Moorsel was the real world champion TT'er in 2000
(Mari only won the rainbow because van Moorsel skipped Worlds after the Olympics). I mean,
everybody knows the best men TTers are Ullrich and Armstrong, not the guy who wins Worlds.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SNIP<<

Miller has beaten both Ullrich and Armstrong. Everybody knows the World Champion, for that year, is
the person who wins the World Championships. Now you know why the Worlds are held annualy.

This is the second post I have seen from you belittling racers for not beating other racers who did
not participate. By this logic no present day racers are faster than the pros of yesteryear because
they never went head to head. Clearly, the winner of a race beats everyone who raced AND all those
who did not choose to race. How many races do you win if you don't enter any races? Obviously none.
If a racer does not enter a race he cannot claim he would have beaten the winner. The winner of the
world championship race, therefore, is the world champion. Any one COULD have entered the race. If
they didn't, they did not win and cannot be the world champion. You seem to have an axe to grind.
You appear to feel the Worlds are held too late in the season. Possibly. The Vuelta used to be held
early in the season. Its reputation suffered because the great racers would regularly skip it. Now
it is later in the season and lots of the great racers regularly skip it. Moving the date of the
Worlds would not make it any more valid as a "true Worlds" as at any given time some racers would
have to skip it. Who shows up race day can win. All others do not compare. Mike

scott patton said:

Mari has been focusing more on track this year, looking to do well in the pursuit.

Then it would appear that she needs more focus. A 4:06 at nationals is not a very high standard,
especially for a rider of her ability.

I'll bet you could get Longo up in the middle of the night and she could do a 4:06 with no warmup.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

scott patton said:

Mari has been focusing more on track this year, looking to do well in the pursuit.

Then it would appear that she needs more focus. A 4:06 at nationals is not a very high standard,
especially for a rider of her ability.

Dumbass -

Wow, 4:06 is really bad.

I'll bet a fifth of the Fatties in this group might be able to manage that standard.

RACER X said:

Mari appears to be on the receiving end of flagrant favorable treatment from the US National team
most likely as payback because she won silver in Sydney and took the rainbow jersey at Worlds that
same year.

Well, if you were into conspiracy theories you might conclude that her spot on T-Mobile was payback
for her support of Thom's takeover of USAC.

Quoted message said:

Mari isn't even within 4 minutes of the winner anymore at US Nationals ITT, and it's very unclear
how she could have even qualified for the Worlds road team this year considering she hasn't won
(or podiumed?) in a single NRC race in the past 3 years.

Quoted message said:

Her spot on T-Mobile is doing nothing but retarding the development of younger riders with more
potential who better deserve the opportunity.

There are two ways of looking at it. One is that no deserving rider was denied by her participation.
In spite of the fall off in results in the last few years, the list of US riders with any UCI points
at all is not long.

The other is that the US would be better off letting some bumpkin gain experience than allowing Mari
to add to her long list of Worlds RR DNFs. And the other side of *that* is that you commit to the
bumpkin with potential at the beginning of the season, not the end by putting an inexperienced rider
into a high level event.

As it stands now she is sort of like the female Kenny Labbe. Kenny has marketing value as a real
letter carrier and makes his living from that. I'll bet if you took a look at the team's financials
you would see that he is not a drain on the team's resources.

And so it may be with Mari. She has value as an Olympic and Worlds medalist and it is entirely
possible that this is reflected in the sponsorship with T-Mobile. It is possible but certainly not a
given that her presence on the team is diverting resources from rider development. My guess is that
this is not the case.

Quoted message said:

Her website is a reflection of her complete lack of results in the past 3 years. She'll likely
finish 20 minutes down in the road race on Saturday and then right afterwards sign a 2 year
extention with T-Mobile.

DNF Mari Holden (USA)

She does not have a history of finishing the Worlds RR. Finishing 20 minutes down would require some
improvement.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The other is that the US would be better off letting some bumpkin gain experience than allowing
Mari to add to her long list of Worlds RR DNFs.

Dumbass -

There were some non-bumpkins who were left at home.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The other is that the US would be better off letting some bumpkin gain experience than allowing
Mari to add to her long list of Worlds RR DNFs.

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

There were some non-bumpkins who were left at home.

OK, this inspired me to go check the rankings. Here are the US riders with UCI points:

Name Age Points Ranking Demet-Barry 31 166 20 Neben 28 152 22 Bruckner 33 126 29 Armstrong 30 80 45
Mayolo 37 25 81 Anderson 35 22 84 Berger-Grove 29 12 113 Gaggioli ?? 12 113 Miller 30 9 132 Holden
32 7 148 Albert 35 5 164 Thorburn 34 4 182 Begosh 27 1 237 Breon 37 1 237 Cowden 30 1 237 Van
Gilder 39 1 237

Note: Nicole Freedman is riding for Israel.

My assumption is that any favortism on USAC's part is towards the team and not to any specific
rider. That is to say, if Holden got a spot over another T-Mobile rider there was a valid reason for
it. If that is true then the only riders with better numbers are Gaggioli and Miller, and then only
marginally.

The thing that this list makes apparent is that the US is not busting open with young talent. So if
you are going to send riders to races to gain international experience, you send them to San Fran or
Sea Otter and not Worlds.

There is a ton of difference comparing this list to a comparable one for the Aussies, for example.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

OK, this inspired me to go check the rankings. Here are the US riders with UCI points:

Name Age Points Ranking Demet-Barry 31 166 20 Neben 28 152 22 Bruckner 33 126 29 Armstrong 30 80
45 Mayolo 37 25 81 Anderson 35 22 84 Berger-Grove 29 12 113 Gaggioli ?? 12 113 Miller 30 9 132
Holden 32 7 148 Albert 35 5 164 Thorburn 34 4 182 Begosh 27 1 237 Breon 37 1 237 Cowden 30 1 237
Van Gilder 39 1 237

Note: Nicole Freedman is riding for Israel.

My assumption is that any favortism on USAC's part is towards the team and not to any
specific rider.

<snip>

Dumbass -

Politics.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

Name Age Points Ranking Holden 32 7 148

Hmmmmm. Davey wonders how old she was when she won the Tour de France?

32 - 20 (roughly) == 12

--
le vent a Dos

Davey Crockett

"Davey Crockett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:87ad84g5fu.fsf@cpe0050da66e294-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Name Age Points Ranking Holden 32 7 148

Hmmmmm. Davey wonders how old she was when she won the Tour de France?

32 - 20 (roughly) == 12

Ok, I'm confused. Who is mixing up Mari Holden with Marianne Martin?

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'll bet you could get Longo up in the middle of the night and she could do a 4:06 with no warmup.

Of course. Think of all the adrenaline she'd be pumping when she was rudely awakened.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'll bet you could get Longo up in the middle of the night and she could do a 4:06 with no
warmup.

Of course. Think of all the adrenaline she'd be pumping when she was

rudely awakened.

Good one.