Marathon Pacing

In article said:

Oh no not another marathon pacing question !!

I did a search and got some good marathon pacing tips from the archives, but I have a specific
question to ask.

My first marathon is in about one month and I'm wondering how fast I should run. When I first
started training for this my goal was 4:00. I now feel I can accomplish this and may try to go a
little faster say
3:45. My big question is at what heart rate (as a percentage of max, LT, vo2 or whatever) do you
generally run at when running a marathon ?

Heart rate isn't a percentage of LT or vo2. Heart rate is measured in beats per minute, the other
two are oxygen uptake measurements. There is a strong correlation, but NOT a dependable linear
relationship.

Quoted message said:

On my long training runs I keep my HR between 130-140. This puts me a little slower than my
marathon pace. I feel I could finish in 4 hours with my HR around 145. My max is about 198 and I
think my LT is around 180 although I never really feel the lactic acid in my legs I just can't
keep up efforts above this for very long.

So 145 is 73% of my max. Does this sound about right for a marathon pace or do you think I could
go faster ? I feel like I could run the distance with my HR at around 150 or even 155, but I don't
want to overdo it. Endurance is my strong point. I am fairly slim build (5'11'' 170lbs).

I will start slow, but I am thinking of picking up the pace gradually after the first 45 mins.

Forget about heart rate, and don't wear a heart rate monitor on race day. It can go up or down for
reasons that have nothing to do with vo2.

Use 10k or half marathon performances to predict your time.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Asweepay said:

Oh no not another marathon pacing question !!

Quoted message said:

I did a search and got some good marathon pacing tips from the archives, but I have a specific
question to ask.

Quoted message said:

My first marathon is in about one month and I'm wondering how fast I should run. When I first
started training for this my goal was 4:00. I now feel I can accomplish this and may try to go a
little faster say
3:45. My big question is at what heart rate (as a percentage of max, LT, vo2 or whatever) do you
generally run at when running a marathon ?

Quoted message said:

On my long training runs I keep my HR between 130-140. This puts me a little slower than my
marathon pace. I feel I could finish in 4 hours with my HR around 145. My max is about 198 and I
think my LT is around 180 although I never really feel the lactic acid in my legs I just can't
keep up efforts above this for very long.

Quoted message said:

So 145 is 73% of my max. Does this sound about right for a marathon pace or do you think I could
go faster ? I feel like I could run the distance with my HR at around 150 or even 155, but I don't
want to overdo it. Endurance is my strong point. I am fairly slim build (5'11'' 170lbs).

Quoted message said:

I will start slow, but I am thinking of picking up the pace gradually after the first 45 mins.

---Half marathon time is the best predictor of marathon pace...And pace per mile is the best way to
guage during the race UNLESS you have EXTENSIVE personal data with your HRM to back up what pace you
can hold over the marathon. Nobody can tell you as a percentage of max or anything beyond a range
that would be too wide to be of use to you. Some people in your position might only be able to hold
145, others in great shape might hold 170-175. Andy Hass

Asweepay said:

Oh no not another marathon pacing question !!

So be very careful what you do with the answers :-)

Quoted message said:

On my long training runs I keep my HR between 130-140.

Meetou.

Quoted message said:

This puts me a little slower than my marathon pace. I feel I could finish in 4 hours with my HR
around 145. My max is about 198

Well My max is 184 and I figure I'm at marathon pace when I hit 160bpm/88%max *in training*. But I
never put a monitor on for races.

80% MHR is a figure I've seen bandied around as a pointer for a reasonably-trained debut marathoner,
which means the pace corresponding to your 150 is probably quite OK, as a first indication.

But as Donovan says, use a 10k, a 1/2 marathon or better still, both, to predict your target pace.
You can do a 1/2 marathon 5 weeks before your event and a 10k three weeks before, as tests.

Take you 1/2 time, double it and add 10% and you won't be that far off. Or, looking at it the other
way round, if you want to do 3:50, you should be able to run a 1/2 marathon in 1:45 or less and a
10k in around 48'. Have you any references at those distances?

FWIW, my debut marathon, in April 2001, followed a 1:35 half marathon in February. 1:35 * 2 + 10% =
3:29 and I did 3:27...

Quoted message said:

But as Donovan says, use a 10k, a 1/2 marathon or better still, both, to predict your target pace.
You can do a 1/2 marathon 5 weeks before your event and a 10k three weeks before, as tests.

Take you 1/2 time, double it and add 10% and you won't be that far off. Or, looking at it the other
way round, if you want to do 3:50, you should be able to run a 1/2 marathon in 1:45 or less and a
10k in around 48'. Have you any references at those distances?

Not at the 1/2 marathon. I've never run full out for anything longer than a 10k. The only 10k
reference I have is a 50 minute effort at the tail end of an olympic distance triathlon. That was
about 2 months ago on 3 months of training but not exclusively to running. I've put in a lot of
miles since then and it's been all running so I think I could pull off at least 47'. 3:45 was my new
target time I was thinking about so that sounds about right. I also ran a 5k at 22:30, but I doubt
that would translate as well to marathon distance.

I've got a 12 miler to run this Saturday. That will give me 4 weeks of rest in between that and the
Marathon. Alternatively, I've got a 20 miler the weekend after and I've also been thinking about
using that as a test run (3 weeks left til 26 at theat point). I figure if I can run that easily at
a 4hr marathon pace, then I'll be safe to bump it up a little and still have lots of energy left for

Quoted message said:

FWIW, my debut marathon, in April 2001, followed a 1:35 half marathon in February. 1:35 * 2 + 10% =
3:29 and I did 3:27...

Very nice. Realistically I will be happy with anything under 4 hours, but my competitive nature just
makes me want to go as fast as I can.

Asweepay said:

The only 10k reference I have is a 50 minute effort at the tail end of an olympic distance
triathlon.

So you can knock some minutes off that for a single event 10km I expect.

Quoted message said:

I also ran a 5k at 22:30, but I doubt that would translate as well to marathon distance.

It's more error prone yes, but it does give a good idea of your aerobic capacity: finger-in-the-wind
estimate of 3h30 is reasonable given what you've said so far. Depends how you feel about taking
risks *on the day*.

Quoted message said:

I've got a 12 miler to run this Saturday. That will give me 4 weeks of rest in between that and the
Marathon.

If you run a well-paced race, without going out too fast and running out of steam, that will be an
excellent indicator of you target pace for the Marathon. Take your performance, transform it up to
13,1 miles by adding a mile at your slowest pace during the race, and round up to the nearest minute
slower. Call that your half marathon time and stick it into the predictors :-)

Quoted message said:

Alternatively, I've got a 20 miler the weekend after and I've also been thinking about using that
as a test run (3 weeks left til 26 at theat point).

Don't. It's too close now to start experimenting, stick to doing the run as planned, IMHO, when it's
such a long one.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've got a 12 miler to run this Saturday. That will give me 4 weeks of rest in between that and
the Marathon.

If you run a well-paced race, without going out too fast and running out of steam, that will be an
excellent indicator of you target pace for the Marathon. Take your performance, transform it up to
13,1 miles by adding a mile at your slowest pace during the race, and round up to the nearest
minute slower. Call that your half marathon time and stick it into the predictors :-)

Well I ran my 12 mile training run today. I finished in 1:36. I did the first half in 50 minutes and
the second half I cranked it up (relatively) and did it in 46. For the first half I kept my HR
between 155-160 and the second half I started at 160-165 and went into the low 170s for the last
couple. I have no idea if this is a good training stategy, but as I went through the run I realized
that I could go faster and wanted to get the best time that I could.

So that translates to an HM time of about 1:45. Not sure what the formula is from that but I
think I heard double it and add 10 minutes. So that would be 3:40. I'll add another 5 to be safe
and go for a
3:45. Thanks for the advice.

Quoted message said:

So that translates to an HM time of about 1:45. Not sure what the formula is from that but I
think I heard double it and add 10 minutes. So that would be 3:40. I'll add another 5 to be safe
and go for a
3:45. Thanks for the advice.

Oops just re read one of your previous posts and found out where I heard that. Heh. And it was
actually 10% not 10 minutes. So that will put me at a 3:50 pace. Still gonna go for 3:45, not sure
why, just like the number.