Marathon N00B seeking advice

Roger Herzler said:

Hi Folks,

I've been looking to take my running 'to the next level'. I wanted to add a
"goal" to push toward on to my regimen. To wit, I was considering a 1/2
marathon at http://www.sdmarathon.com/. This is right down the road from
where I live, so not a big deal to get down there. Are there any runners
here that are or have recently actively trained for such a thing. I'm

Lots of us.

Training for the half isn't that much different for training for 5k/10k.

Quoted message said:

skeptical that I can make it in time. I only have 69 days to train in and
that's much longer than my typical runs. Most likely I'll be trying local
short runs like 5Ks, etc., but I don't want to axe any options at this
point.

That's a good approach. Start with shorter races.

Quoted message said:

I'm running 3 miles in about 27 minutes right now (well slower than my
Marine Corps days) and doing it every other day (3 times a week). I'm
interested to see what others have done to get ready for these. Obviously I
have to increase the distance/duration of my runs, but of course that's
going to affect the speeds I can travel at, etc..

Don't worry about how fast your training runs are. It's better to do your
training runs at an easy pace. The pace of most of your training runs (well at
least runs of 2hrs duration or less) should be unaffected by the length of the
run. If you find that increasing the length of your run forces you to slow
down, it means that you're training too fast.

Whatever your 5k race pace is, your training pace should be 1.5-2 minutes per
mile slower. So if you can run a 5k race at 8 minutes per mile, your training
runs should be at about 9:30-10:00 per mile.

It's probably a good idea to build up more milage (via more frequent training)
and longer runs before trying to complete a long race. But you can't ramp it
up while you've got your knee problem.

Quoted message said:

I do have a knee condition that is very manageable with good stretches and an
ice down at the end, but it's aggravated by a lot of hill work, so I need to
pay attention to the routes I run (I run nearly exclusively on tracks and
treadmills).

Working at a more comfortable pace might also help. Getting on top of this is
critical, because you need to get in more training to complete longer races,
but you can't increase your training volume while you're injured.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

See:
"Sidhartha,"
Herman Hesse.

<<
I've been looking to take my running 'to the next level'. I wanted to add a
"goal" to push toward on to my regimen. To wit, I was considering... >>

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Roger: Didn't you post this back in July 2004?
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Roger Herzler said:

Hi Folks,

Quoted message said:

I've been looking to take my running 'to the next level'. I wanted to add a
"goal" to push toward on to my regimen. To wit, I was considering a 1/2
marathon at http://www.sdmarathon.com/. This is right down the road from
where I live, so not a big deal to get down there. Are there any runners
here that are or have recently actively trained for such a thing. I'm
skeptical that I can make it in time. I only have 69 days to train in and
that's much longer than my typical runs. Most likely I'll be trying local
short runs like 5Ks, etc., but I don't want to axe any options at this
point.

Quoted message said:

I'm running 3 miles in about 27 minutes right now (well slower than my
Marine Corps days) and doing it every other day (3 times a week). I'm
interested to see what others have done to get ready for these. Obviously I
have to increase the distance/duration of my runs, but of course that's
going to affect the speeds I can travel at, etc.. I do have a knee
condition
that is very manageable with good stretches and an ice down at the end,
but it's aggravated by a lot of hill work, so I need to pay attention to the
routes I run (I run nearly exclusively on tracks and treadmills).

69 days is kind of pushing it considering that:
- You longest run is only 3 miles (from what you've posted).
- You have a knee condition.
- You run almost exclusively on tracks and treadmills.

The pounding you will take from 13.1 miles on the road will
be much higher. You might be setting yourself up for injury.

Of course, we've not even talked about other factors
such as your running history, weight, etc.

Unless you want to run the half-marathon at all costs,
you might be better off picking a smaller race like a 5K.
The San Diego area has lots of races all the time. A half-marathon
will come along soon. So you can afford to wait.

Good luck,
jobs

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2004-11-08, Roger Herzler <[email hidden]> wrote:

Hi Donovan,

Thanks for your reply and advice!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do have a knee condition that is very manageable with good stretches
and an
ice down at the end, but it's aggravated by a lot of hill work, so I need
to
pay attention to the routes I run (I run nearly exclusively on tracks and
treadmills).

Working at a more comfortable pace might also help. Getting on top of this
is
critical, because you need to get in more training to complete longer
races,
but you can't increase your training volume while you're injured.

I guess you could call it an 'injury', but I haven't yet. It's just
something I manage. I was concerned when I re-started running earlier in
the year that it would be a problem over the long haul. I can't tell you
the clinical name for it, but I can describe it. There are two things the
doc who viewed the x-rays thinks is going on: 1) the inner parts of the
cartilage between my femur and the tibia is actually a little thinner than
the outer part and 2) my kneecap may be getting pulled into that thinner
part by my muscles. To mitigate the sports physical therapist suggested
extra stretching to loosen up those muscles that might pull the kneecap in,
ice it after runs to prevent swelling, and no major hill runs on a frequent
basis hence the track/treadmill runs. All of that has worked out very well
to prevent the dull pain which was the original symptom.

Quoted message said:

It's probably a good idea to build up more milage (via more frequent
training)
and longer runs before trying to complete a long race. But you can't ramp
it
up while you've got your knee problem.

I have pushed up to 4.5 miles on a run recently, and that was quite
comfortable. I haven't done any longer runs because I usually don't have
the time for it. I think what I will do is set aside time on the weekend to
perform a long run and see where I start to peter out that way I can get an
idea of where I am.

Clear skies,
Roger
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
R o g e r H e r z l e r <><
"What the country needs is dirtier fingernails
and cleaner minds." -Will Rogers (1879-1935)
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"Twittering One" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger: Didn't you post this back in July 2004?

Whew, I hope not because I SURE don't remember it...

Clear skies,
Roger
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
R o g e r H e r z l e r <><
"What the country needs is dirtier fingernails
and cleaner minds." -Will Rogers (1879-1935)
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<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Hi Jobs,

Quoted message said:

The pounding you will take from 13.1 miles on the road will
be much higher. You might be setting yourself up for injury.

I have done a 12 mile run as a 19 year old kid, but that was a while ago and
I've fallen out of that shape.

Quoted message said:

Of course, we've not even talked about other factors
such as your running history, weight, etc.

Unless you want to run the half-marathon at all costs,
you might be better off picking a smaller race like a 5K.
The San Diego area has lots of races all the time. A half-marathon
will come along soon. So you can afford to wait.

Good advice all! I think you're probably right. Of course, I could walk
the 1/2 and get my little medal too. Choices, choices :o)

My longest present day run is 4.5 miles. I'm built for cross-country
running: tall, thin and generally in good shape. I do have a gut I'm
working on, but that has had a lot of tenacity. :o) I'm going to push up a
run this weekend and see where my envelope is. I'm pretty conservative and
would much rather shut it down than cause permanent injury.

Do you have any opinions on these online workout trackers? No one has
mentioned them yet (which means "no" to me).

Clear skies,
Roger
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
R o g e r H e r z l e r <><
"What the country needs is dirtier fingernails
and cleaner minds." -Will Rogers (1879-1935)
journey through your universe: http://astronomylinks.com/
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Roger Herzler said:

I'm going to push up a
run this weekend and see where my envelope is. I'm pretty conservative and
would much rather shut it down than cause permanent injury.

Sounds good.

Quoted message said:

Do you have any opinions on these online workout trackers? No one has
mentioned them yet (which means "no" to me).

Sorry, I haven't used them.
Most people here on r.r. use log books or Excel sheets to track their
workouts. That and the "Training Week" thread here can be very useful
in getting feedback from the other folks. But, whatever works for you...

jobs

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry, I haven't used them.
Most people here on r.r. use log books or Excel sheets to track their

I do use an Excel spreadsheet now. I wondered if using "programming power"
might help to provide "optimal" workout schedules, but I'm starting to doubt
that it's needed. I've actually got my log sheet on the net, if you're
interested in seeing what I call a 'log': ftp://ftp.herzler.com/runlog.xls

Clear skies,
Roger
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
R o g e r H e r z l e r <><
"What the country needs is dirtier fingernails
and cleaner minds." -Will Rogers (1879-1935)
journey through your universe: http://astronomylinks.com/
NOTE: Incoming e-mail with .ZIP and .EXE attachments are
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[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

69 days is kind of pushing it considering that:
- You longest run is only 3 miles (from what you've posted).
- You have a knee condition.
- You run almost exclusively on tracks and treadmills.

Agreed. I go one further and say it's just plain stupid to even
consider it when he hasn't even done more than 3 miles, and not even
road racing, just 'dainty treadmill running'.

Quoted message said:

The pounding you will take from 13.1 miles on the road will
be much higher. You might be setting yourself up for injury.

Might?

Quoted message said:

Of course, we've not even talked about other factors
such as your running history, weight, etc.

Unless you want to run the half-marathon at all costs,
you might be better off picking a smaller race like a 5K.
The San Diego area has lots of races all the time. A half-marathon
will come along soon. So you can afford to wait.

Good luck,
jobs

He's a troll, or a fool.

[email hidden] (Twittering One) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Roger: Didn't you post this back in July 2004?

I told you he was a troll. You guys, especially Realbitchy, have got
to be the most gullible, and egotistical fools on the net. In your
rush to give advice you don't care or consider if it's a troll post,
and throw all caution to the wind just so you can say "Well I think
you should... blah blah blah".

"`" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Twittering One) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Roger: Didn't you post this back in July 2004?

I told you he was a troll.

I'm not a troll - it's an honest post from a 'real' person, and the advice
received so far has been appreciated. So nyah, nyah. :o)

Clear skies,
Roger
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
R o g e r H e r z l e r <><
"What the country needs is dirtier fingernails
and cleaner minds." -Will Rogers (1879-1935)
journey through your universe: http://astronomylinks.com/
NOTE: Incoming e-mail with .ZIP and .EXE attachments are
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"`" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He's a troll, or a fool.

I've been called worse I guess. You've added no value to my r.r experience.
[plonk]

R
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
R o g e r H e r z l e r <><
"What the country needs is dirtier fingernails
and cleaner minds." -Will Rogers (1879-1935)
journey through your universe: http://astronomylinks.com/
NOTE: Incoming e-mail with .ZIP and .EXE attachments are
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"Roger Herzler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clear skies,
Roger

A dangerous wish, my dear namesake. With clear skies even the rec.runners
may realise the futility of their introspective little lives. Not
something I'd wish on my worst enemy...

love,

Ro.

Roger Herzler said:

I do use an Excel spreadsheet now. I wondered if using "programming power"
might help to provide "optimal" workout schedules, but I'm starting to doubt
that it's needed. I've actually got my log sheet on the net, if you're
interested in seeing what I call a 'log': ftp://ftp.herzler.com/runlog.xls

Clear skies,
Roger

Roger,

Here's a link to the running club I belong to. It may be helpful maybe not. This is our marathon training program from
newbie to marathon. You could change the dates and jump in where you feel fits your needs. Notice that the half marathon
is over 3/4's of the way through the training. You can probably be prepared for a half sooner than that though.
Oh, be sure to abide by the rules at the bottom of the page, especially the last one.

http://www.lopersclub.org/clinic/miles05.htm

HTH,

Malcontent

Quoted message said:

I'm not a troll - it's an honest post from a 'real' person, and the advice
received so far has been appreciated. So nyah, nyah. :o)

Clear skies,
Roger

You are a real troll. You set up this whole discussion.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He's a troll, or a fool.

You're both.