marathon and psychology

Viky said:

Does marathon and running change your character and attitude in the
long run?

Nice pun!

Quoted message said:

For example, if you keep running, and with pain,

That's why, psychologically speaking, there must be lots
of latent masochists in marathon runners, don't you thin?. :-)

Quoted message said:

That's why, psychologically speaking, there must >be lots
of latent masochists in marathon runners

The same applys to latent homosexuals, now that you've arrived.

"Viky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does marathon and running change your character and attitude in the
long run? I feel like it may have both positive and negative impacts.
For example, if you keep running, and with pain, the ability to
concentrate on other stuff than running decreases, atleast i have had
that experience.

Why are you running in pain? Long runs should be work, especially the
last few miles, but they should not be in pain. Your marathon training
schedule needs careful inspection by someone other than you with
marathon experience.

Quoted message said:

I've run two marathons in the past, and a regular
runner. But now i'm thinking i should change my running habits. Has
anyone had this kind of experience or thought on these lines?

Without specific details of your running habits the question posed is
impossible to answer.

-DougF

Quoted message said:

Why are you running in pain? Long runs should be work,
especially the last few miles, but they should not be
in pain. Your marathon training schedule needs careful
inspection by someone other than you with marathon

Well, atleast when i run i don't feel the pain, thats why i'm stilling
going on. But i do feel the pain after the run, and sometimes it
continues to one or two days, and these are times i feel less focused
and be less myself. The pain is more subconscious, and whenever i do
other work, i've felt less focused because of the pain, its more of a
distraction.

But if i go ahead an feel like i cannot quit and conquer the pain, i
don't feel any pain, and feel more motivated. And thats how i still,
and going thru this.

Quoted message said:

Without specific details of your running habits the question posed is
impossible to answer.

Basically i tend to do atleast one long run a week like 10-12 miles,
and many short runs around 3 or 5 miles. I've tried to reduce the
number of miles, but i don't feel right when i do that also. The fact
that i feel satisfied after the run is more important for me than going
thru any sort of pain or anything.

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from [email hidden]
of 30 Dec 2004:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why are you running in pain? Long runs should be work,
especially the last few miles, but they should not be
in pain. Your marathon training schedule needs careful
inspection by someone other than you with marathon

Well, atleast when i run i don't feel the pain, thats why i'm stilling
going on. But i do feel the pain after the run, and sometimes it
continues to one or two days, and these are times i feel less focused
and be less myself. The pain is more subconscious, and whenever i do
other work, i've felt less focused because of the pain, its more of a
distraction.

Is this muscle soreness or more of an acute pain? Where are you feeling
the pain? Muscle soreness is OK, as long as you are allowing some
recovery time. A lot of runners will take a day off after a long run, or
at least do something other than running. If you are still sore on the
second day, then a short/easy run might be best. Also, if you're feeling
less focused, maybe this is more of a nutrition issue. Are you hydrating
appropriately before, during, and after your long run? What are you
drinking/eating before, during, and after your runs?

Quoted message said:

But if i go ahead an feel like i cannot quit and conquer the pain, i
don't feel any pain, and feel more motivated. And thats how i still,
and going thru this.

Huh?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Without specific details of your running habits the question posed is
impossible to answer.

Basically i tend to do atleast one long run a week like 10-12 miles,
and many short runs around 3 or 5 miles. I've tried to reduce the
number of miles, but i don't feel right when i do that also. The fact
that i feel satisfied after the run is more important for me than going
thru any sort of pain or anything.

You may be running your long runs too fast. How does your pace compare to
your shorter runs? Have you changed anything in your running program?
Speed work, number of running days per week, length of runs?

Phil M.

Quoted message said:

Is this muscle soreness or more of an acute pain?
Where are you feeling the pain? Muscle soreness is OK,
as long as you are allowing some recovery time.
A lot of runners will take a day off after a long run, or
at least do something other than running. If you are still
sore on the second day, then a short/easy run might be best.

It's calf muscle pain, and sometimes i feel a lot of pain in my feet,
which is more unbearable than the calf. Yes. more rest might help.

Quoted message said:

Also, if you're feeling less focused, maybe this is more of a
nutrition issue.

Thats a good suggestion. yeah.. nutrition could be another reason for
having less focus. I pretty much follow a vegan diet, and probably need
to eat food with more nutritional content.

Quoted message said:

Are you hydrating appropriately before, during,
and after your long run?

I also drink lot of coffee, which probably dehydrates me quickly. I
guess i don't drink as much water as i should.

Quoted message said:

What are you
drinking/eating before, during, and after your runs?

I usually try not to eat anything before a run, as i've always felt
better that way, may be i drink coffee before the run. But after the
run, i drink fruit juice, lot of water, and cereal or bread. I'm a
picky eater, so i don't eat lot of junk food or anything.

Quoted message said:

You may be running your long runs too fast. How does your pace
compare to your shorter runs?

I usually slow down as i progress, like i run 3 miles in 7 minutes
pace, and 5 miles in around 7.5min pace.. 10 miles in like 80 minutes,
and so on. I run atleast 4 days a week

Quoted message said:

Have you changed anything in your
running program? Speed work, number of running days per week,
length of runs?

Yes. I've been doing less long runs or even skipping the weekend long
runs. I'm doing like two 5 milers, and couple of 3 milers in the last
two weeks. But when i do these short runs, i try to keep up my speed
around 7 minutes or so.

Viky said:

Quoted message said:

Without specific details of your running habits the question posed is
impossible to answer.

Basically i tend to do atleast one long run a week like 10-12 miles,
and many short runs around 3 or 5 miles. I've tried to reduce the
number of miles, but i don't feel right when i do that also. The fact
that i feel satisfied after the run is more important for me than going
thru any sort of pain or anything.

How fast do you do these runs ? What are some of your PRs over different
distances ?

How would you describe the effort level during these runs ? For example, could
you sing your favourite song to yourself during such a run ? Or are you
gasping for air most of the time ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Viky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is this muscle soreness or more of an acute pain?
Where are you feeling the pain? Muscle soreness is OK,
as long as you are allowing some recovery time.
A lot of runners will take a day off after a long run, or
at least do something other than running. If you are still
sore on the second day, then a short/easy run might be best.

It's calf muscle pain, and sometimes i feel a lot of pain in my feet,
which is more unbearable than the calf. Yes. more rest might help.

Vicki, you need a specific diagnosis which will give you the proper
action. All you are getting is wild ass guesses and probably do more
harm than good. My WAG is knots or pulls in your calf which in turns
pulls on the achilles which connects and pulls the fascia on your feet.
Find a sports massage therapist yesterday

When you run you are stretching, actually over stretching the problem
area and doing more harm even though the discomfort seems to wan. If you
keep stoking the injury gods you may do some real damage. Your call!

-DF

Viky said:

Quoted message said:

Is this muscle soreness or more of an acute pain?
Where are you feeling the pain? Muscle soreness is OK,
as long as you are allowing some recovery time.
A lot of runners will take a day off after a long run, or
at least do something other than running. If you are still
sore on the second day, then a short/easy run might be best.

It's calf muscle pain, and sometimes i feel a lot of pain in my feet,
which is more unbearable than the calf. Yes. more rest might help.

Describe this pain more clearly - both the feet and the calf. In
particular, does it feel really sore, esp. in the heel, when you get out
of bed, like a peg leg? then loosen up a little as the day progresses?
(you might also google for plantar fasciatus (PF) or achilles tendinits
(AT)) to see if any of those symptoms fit. Pain is nature's wakeup call.
See my comments under "achilles pain" thread and here's a couple for PF
for starters to see if that matches your feeling.
http://www.drpribut.com/sports/heelhtm.htm
http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/0180-Plantar-Fasciitis.htm
http://www.achillestendon.com/default.asp

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, if you're feeling less focused, maybe this is more of a
nutrition issue.

Thats a good suggestion. yeah.. nutrition could be another reason for
having less focus. I pretty much follow a vegan diet, and probably need
to eat food with more nutritient content.

I'm not a vegan, but I'd guess it's the overall nutrient content and
distribution, not whether it's a vegan diet. At least one top
long-distance (100 mi) runner is vegetarian (and I'm sure there are
more). But you have to do more homework as to the nutrient contents that
are / are not present and be sure you get all that you need. Several
here are vegans or some level of vegetarian and can probably help you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You may be running your long runs too fast. How does your pace
compare to your shorter runs?

I usually slow down as i progress, like i run 3 miles in 7 minutes
pace, and 5 miles in around 7.5min pace.. 10 miles in like 80 minutes,
and so on. I run atleast 4 days a week

Is this slow progression deliberate (like going out too fast or running
up a hill)? Usually people try to maintain even effort / pace, or pick
it up in the middle / end, but people sometimes have their own ways of
training for their own reasons.

Quoted message said:

Yes. I've been doing less long runs or even skipping the weekend long
runs. I'm doing like two 5 milers, and couple of 3 milers in the last
two weeks. But when i do these short runs, i try to keep up my speed
around 7 minutes or so.

Do you vary the duration / intensity of your runs? Like short / fast,
long / slow and various flavors and combinations in between.

Quoted message said:

Dot

--
"If we reach all our goals, we are not setting them high enough."
- Matt Carpenter

Quoted message said:

Describe this pain more clearly - both the feet and
the calf. In particular, does it feel really sore, esp.
in the heel, when you get out of bed, like a peg leg?
then loosen up a little as the day progresses?

Exactly when i get out of bed i've felt a lot of pain in my heel and
the centre part of the foot. But i've not felt it like a peg leg but
there is a lot of irritation. Sometimes i've felt that shoes got to do
with since i wear a little heavier shoes since i over pronate. But
thanks for those link, and i'll go thru it in detail.

Quoted message said:

Is this slow progression deliberate (like going out too
fast or running up a hill)? Usually people try to
maintain even effort / pace, or pick it up in the middle
/ end, but people sometimes have their own ways of
training for their own reasons.

Actually it's not deliberate. I try to run faster and the beginning,
and kinda settle down after 7 or 10 miles to one pace. When on even
longer runs i kinda slow down a lot after 15 miles probably because i
lose energy, and my feet starts hurting around that time.

Quoted message said:

Do you vary the duration / intensity of your runs?
Like short / fast, long / slow and various flavors
and combinations in between.

I always try to do short runs at higher pace, probably like 7 minute
mile upto 5 miles, and sometimes i keep up that pace upto 8 miles.

Longer runs as i mentioned above, i'm forced to slow either because of
pain or lack of energy. I usually keep up good energy upto 15 miles.
but anything above that is a drag.

Quoted message said:

How fast do you do these runs ? What are some of your
PRs over different distances ?

These are my averages

3m - 20 minutes
5m - 34m
10m - 75m
15m - 2 hours
20 m - 2.45 hours

I tend to do 3 milers atleast twice a week, and one probably one 5
miler and a 10 miler. During the weeks of long runs over 10, i include
those runs on sunday. I usually spread my runs between night and
mornings.

PR?

Quoted message said:

How would you describe the effort level during these runs ?
For example, could you sing your favourite song to yourself
during such a run ? Or are you gasping for air most of the time ?

Well, i try to push myself as much as i can. I try to keep my pace
higher during short runs like 3 or 5 miles, and long runs due to lack
of energy or pain i slow down. I definitely can't sing my favorite song
when i run the short runs. But during the long runs like 15/20 miles my
average pace is like 8.5 minute mile.

Viky said:

Quoted message said:

How fast do you do these runs ? What are some of your
PRs over different distances ?

These are my averages

3m - 20 minutes
5m - 34m
10m - 75m
15m - 2 hours
20 m - 2.45 hours

I tend to do 3 milers atleast twice a week, and one probably one 5
miler and a 10 miler. During the weeks of long runs over 10, i include
those runs on sunday. I usually spread my runs between night and
mornings.

Too fast. It's no wonder you're burning yourself out. It's OK to push like
that if you can afford to sleep 12 hours a day, and you have excellent injury
resistance. Otherwise, go with conversational pace for your milage, plus
two speed workouts a week.

A good book to read (given your level of ability/experience) on setting up a
good training program is "Daniels' Running Formula", by Jack Daniels. Another
good book by authors with a Daniels-like philosophy that is marathon based is
"Advanced Marathoning", by Pfitzinger and Douglas. We have a couple of posters
here who do either Daniels or Pfitzinger/Douglas training programs.

Quoted message said:

PR?

Personal record. Your fastest for a given distance. Usually a race time.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How would you describe the effort level during these runs ?
For example, could you sing your favourite song to yourself
during such a run ? Or are you gasping for air most of the time ?

Well, i try to push myself as much as i can. I try to keep my pace

There's your problem. Slow them down.

Quoted message said:

higher during short runs like 3 or 5 miles, and long runs due to lack
of energy or pain i slow down.
I definitely can't sing my favorite song
when i run the short runs. But during the long runs like 15/20 miles my
average pace is like 8.5 minute mile.

If a 6:40 is an all-out effort on a 3 miler, 8:30 is a good pace for your
long runs. 8:30 is also a good pace for any run over 5 miles. Wouldn't
recommend training runs under 5 miles unless you're in a hurry. If you are
in a hurry, do a tempo run. If you don't know what a tempo run is, hurry up
and get that book.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

i sensed a high troll quotient in the OP. never have seen someone with a UK
email tag use the language of miles so extensively as opposed to km. plus the
question in itself was so disjointedly expressed....most europeans communicate
on a more intelligent manner.

Honey, if joggers had thoughts, they wouldn't be joggers. Psychology
has about as much to do with jogging, as Iraq has to do with Osama.

Quoted message said:

i sensed a high troll quotient in the OP. never have seen someone

with a

Quoted message said:

UK email tag use the language of miles so extensively as opposed to

km.

Quoted message said:

plus the question in itself was so disjointedly expressed....most

europeans

Quoted message said:

communicate

my friend, i'm not a european, yahoo threw me the uk address by mistake
when i registered. I live in washington, dc. I'm not intelligent by
european means either, and my questions have been politely answered by
many posters, and have been very helpful to me.

Lanceandrew said:

i sensed a high troll quotient in the OP. never have seen someone

with a UK

Quoted message said:

email tag use the language of miles so extensively as opposed to km.

plus the

Quoted message said:

question in itself was so disjointedly expressed....most europeans

communicate

Quoted message said:

on a more intelligent manner.

No EDUVATED european would start a sentence with "plus" when s/he
should have used "moreover", "furthermore", or other more appropriate
words in English.

-- Bob.