Man's Disobedience and the Fall

Carl Fogel said:

Man's Disobedience and the Fall

There once was a substantial fallen angel named Chalo, Who rejected a substandard helmet-shaped
halo, Telling a startled St. Peter, "Just between us, Lose those wings, too--I'm no chump, but a
machinist! And they won't bear my pre-load, pay-load, or pray-load."

I'm glad to see you refuse to have your genius restrained by the limits of an antiquated art form...

(Carl Fogel) said:

Man's Disobedience and the Fall

There once was a substantial fallen angel named Chalo, Who rejected a substandard helmet-shaped
halo, Telling a startled St. Peter, "Just between us, Lose those wings, too--I'm no chump, but a
machinist! And they won't bear my pre-load, pay-load, or pray-load."

The Tallbiker's Tale, or, A Head Held High A story in rhyme by Chalo Colina

Whilst ped'ling a lofty machine My bare head smote an awning of green. O! the impact was puissant
And language indecent Issued forth as I clutched at my bean.

There finding a sizeable dent, Deep and soft, like my head-bone I'd rent (Though I felt mostly
well!), My worst doubts to dispel, To consult a physician I went.

So a weary young intern complies, Asks some questions, and peers in my eyes, But displays no
concern-- It is then that I learn What to me is a sort of surprise:

"The scalp's thicker than most folks believe," From his gesture an inch I perceive, "And it takes
quite a blow To reach down below And cause damage that time won't relieve."

Though I still wear a dent in my pate Of the sort a foam hat /might/ abate, It would be most
fallacious, not to mention audacious, to suggest my bare head tempted fate!

Chalo has been BMX'd Builds a strong wheel yet's A la Jobst, fewer gears Bigger axles, fewer tears
And freewheels trump cassettes

"Carl Fogel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Man's Disobedience and the Fall

There once was a substantial fallen angel named Chalo, Who rejected a substandard helmet-shaped
halo, Telling a startled St. Peter, "Just between us, Lose those wings, too--I'm no chump, but a
machinist! And they won't bear my pre-load, pay-load, or pray-load."

Next week: Phil Holman

Jay Hill <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

Man's Disobedience and the Fall

There once was a substantial fallen angel named Chalo, Who rejected a substandard helmet-shaped
halo, Telling a startled St. Peter, "Just between us, Lose those wings, too--I'm no chump, but a
machinist! And they won't bear my pre-load, pay-load, or pray-load."

I'm glad to see you refuse to have your genius restrained by the limits of an antiquated
art form...

Dear Jay,

I held the pen when I wrote "Uncle Tom's Cabin;" God dictated. -- Harriet Beecher Stowe

Me, I just listen to the little voices in my head.

This time, they whispered something about the fifth play in the York Cycle of the mystery plays.
Sadly, the guild, or mystery, of the coopers bore the honor of re-enacting the crucial part of the
second creation myth of Genesis (the good one with the drama and the polytheistic Lord God, not the
first one that's just a laundry list as dull as its monotheistic God).

I looked, but common blacksmiths had no mystery play per se. The medieval labor unions guarding the
mysteries of the jewelers and armorers were the closest to Chalo's profession, but their biblical
plays didn't work.

I understand that there's some Johnny-come-lately named Milton who opened some dull poem with less
than half my title, but he said nothing about helmets or falling off a bicycle.

Betcha didn't think I could spin a mere limerick's title into this long a digression.

Carl Fogel

(Chalo) said:

(Carl Fogel) said:

Man's Disobedience and the Fall

There once was a substantial fallen angel named Chalo, Who rejected a substandard helmet-shaped
halo, Telling a startled St. Peter, "Just between us, Lose those wings, too--I'm no chump, but a
machinist! And they won't bear my pre-load, pay-load, or pray-load."

The Tallbiker's Tale, or, A Head Held High A story in rhyme by Chalo Colina

Bravo!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

Age equals angst multiplied by the speed of fright squared.
;; the Worlock

BRAVO. I am persuaded. I am a fan.

"Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Carl Fogel) said:

Man's Disobedience and the Fall

There once was a substantial fallen angel named Chalo, Who rejected a substandard helmet-shaped
halo, Telling a startled St. Peter, "Just between us, Lose those wings, too--I'm no chump, but a
machinist! And they won't bear my pre-load, pay-load, or pray-load."

The Tallbiker's Tale, or, A Head Held High A story in rhyme by Chalo Colina

Whilst ped'ling a lofty machine My bare head smote an awning of green. O! the impact was puissant
And language indecent Issued forth as I clutched at my bean.

There finding a sizeable dent, Deep and soft, like my head-bone I'd rent (Though I felt mostly
well!), My worst doubts to dispel, To consult a physician I went.

So a weary young intern complies, Asks some questions, and peers in my eyes, But displays no
concern-- It is then that I learn What to me is a sort of surprise:

"The scalp's thicker than most folks believe," From his gesture an inch I perceive, "And it takes
quite a blow To reach down below And cause damage that time won't relieve."

Though I still wear a dent in my pate Of the sort a foam hat /might/ abate, It would be most
fallacious, not to mention audacious, to suggest my bare head tempted fate!

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip]

Quoted message said:

So a weary young intern complies, Asks some questions, and peers in my eyes, But displays no
concern-- It is then that I learn What to me is a sort of surprise:

"The scalp's thicker than most folks believe," From his gesture an inch I perceive,

[snip]

Dear Chalo,

Inch-thick scalp?

Either you were dazed or else you met an intern with careless gestures.

The accepted average thicknesses, which vary surprisingly little from person to person, are 6mm for
scalp and 7mm for skull.

That's about a quarter-inch for each. Like the skull, the scalp is about the the thickness of two
coins stacked on top of each other. Combined, the scalp and skull are only about half an inch thick.
Crainial scans and EEG sensors depend on this.

You can test part of this by pressing a finger against any part of your head that would be covered
by a helmet. There's no inch-thick fleshy padding.

The strength and lightness of the human skull derives from its odd construction. Slice through
the side of a cardboard box and you'll see how it works, two thin layers separated by
corrugated bracing:
_________________
_/_\_/_\_/_\_/_\_ skull __________________ scalp

(On a 17" screen, this ASCII drawing is probably a bit thicker than a typical skull-scalp
cross-section, depending on your font.)

In fact, the cardboard on a big shipping carton uses the same design and is just about as thick as
our skull bone--a quarter-inch. The scalp is just flesh without any clever engineering and also only
a quarter-inch thick.

So think in terms of two sheets of cardboard, one stiff and one soggy, not in terms of an inch-thick
layer of flesh over thick bone.

___________
/ \
| |
| O O |
\ ^ /
\ O O /
| |
| \:::::/ |
\_______/

(Carl Fogel) said:

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip]

Quoted message said:

So a weary young intern complies, Asks some questions, and peers in my eyes, But displays no
concern-- It is then that I learn What to me is a sort of surprise:

"The scalp's thicker than most folks believe," From his gesture an inch I perceive,

[snip]

Dear Chalo,

Inch-thick scalp?

Either you were dazed or else you met an intern with careless gestures.

The accepted average thicknesses, which vary surprisingly little from person to person, are 6mm
for scalp and 7mm for skull.

If by scalp you mean skin, yes. But there are also muscle, fascia, ligaments, and fat, which for the
purposes of taking a whack to the noggin must tally up in the "scalp" column.

The doctor gestured about 20mm, but that didn't fit the meter.

I was surprised at the fact that my skull was unharmed, because the dent on the top of my head where
it slammed into a steel pole was very soft and very deep, deeper than I thought was required to
reach gray matter. That was the one and only reason I went to the ER, because otherwise I felt fine.
But with a soft spot my entire fingertips could sink into, I thought it very likely that I might
have punched a hole in my skull. But I didn't.

This was on a spot on my head about 3" back from my forehead hairline, hardly a meaty-seeming
section of scalp.

Quoted message said:

That's about a quarter-inch for each. Like the skull, the scalp is about the the thickness of two
coins stacked on top of each other. Combined, the scalp and skull are only about half an inch
thick. Crainial scans and EEG sensors depend on this.

If you say so; what I know firsthand is that mine is a LOT thicker. And although my head is
unusually large, I don't think of it as unusual in any other ways.

I think you are missng the layer between skin and bone.

Chalo Colina

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Carl Fogel) said:

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip]

Quoted message said:

So a weary young intern complies, Asks some questions, and peers in my eyes, But displays no
concern-- It is then that I learn What to me is a sort of surprise:

"The scalp's thicker than most folks believe," From his gesture an inch I perceive,

[snip]

Dear Chalo,

Inch-thick scalp?

Either you were dazed or else you met an intern with careless gestures.

The accepted average thicknesses, which vary surprisingly little from person to person, are 6mm
for scalp and 7mm for skull.

If by scalp you mean skin, yes. But there are also muscle, fascia, ligaments, and fat, which for
the purposes of taking a whack to the noggin must tally up in the "scalp" column.

The doctor gestured about 20mm, but that didn't fit the meter.

I was surprised at the fact that my skull was unharmed, because the dent on the top of my head
where it slammed into a steel pole was very soft and very deep, deeper than I thought was required
to reach gray matter. That was the one and only reason I went to the ER, because otherwise I felt
fine. But with a soft spot my entire fingertips could sink into, I thought it very likely that I
might have punched a hole in my skull. But I didn't.

This was on a spot on my head about 3" back from my forehead hairline, hardly a meaty-seeming
section of scalp.

Quoted message said:

That's about a quarter-inch for each. Like the skull, the scalp is about the the thickness of
two coins stacked on top of each other. Combined, the scalp and skull are only about half an
inch thick. Crainial scans and EEG sensors depend on this.

If you say so; what I know firsthand is that mine is a LOT thicker. And although my head is
unusually large, I don't think of it as unusual in any other ways.

I think you are missng the layer between skin and bone.

Chalo Colina

Dear Chalo,

Essentially, there is no layer between the skin and bone when we're talking about the scalp--the
scalp is often cited as the thickest skin on our bodies and covers almost nothing except bone.

Press a finger into the areas covered by a helmet and you'll feel the bone immediately under the
skin--wiggle your finger back and forth and you'll feel the skin sliding around over the bone. It's
about like the skin covering the bump of bone on the outside of your wrist, just thicker.

Scalp wounds bleed profusely and swell alarmingly, producing a much thicker, swollen area in a
surprisingly short time--the "knot" or "bump" with which we're all familiar. This often gives us a
mistaken impression of scalp thickness.

For example, poke a finger into your forehead while looking into a mirror. Your finger doesn't sink
in because there's almost nothing to sink into, less than a quarter inch of flesh.

Now smack into the back end of a bee, extract the stinger, and wait a few minutes. Because of the
smooth swelling, you'll be able to poke a finger into your forehead and leave a deep dimple to amuse
your friends.

If you have a wound requiring stitching, the swelling will be local and will give a distressing
impression of depth, like the dent that you suffered that seemed so deep by the time that you got
to the ER.

Feel that spot on top of your head now and see if there's anything like an inch of flesh between
your finger and your skull. There isn't--the swelling has long since gone down.

Body size makes surprisingly little difference. The average scalp thickness in adult humans is
about 6mm (some areas are indeed thicker and others thinner). The next structure is the skull,
whose thickness averages about 7mm. Scaled up from a 6-foot to a 7-foot creature, the scalp and
skull increase to only about 7mm and 8mm. On an MRI, you'd look like about 99% of the population.
So would I.

Somehow, I'm really enjoying the thought of posters on rec.bicycles.tech peering into mirrors and
poking at their scalps with earnest looks and possibly even calipers. Your ears actually offer more
padding than your scalp.

Carl Fogel

P.S. Some of us have an easier time seeing this sort of thing. I'm no match for the new Sheldon
Brown, but I have a fairly unobstructed view of much of my scalp. Hairier folk may have to
probe blindly.

C.F.

Carl Fogel wrote: -snip relevant parts-

Quoted message said:

___________
/ \
| |
| O O |
\ ^ /
\ O O /
| |
| \:::::/ |
\_______/

My vote for ascii art award!
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

(Chalo) said:

If you say so; what I know firsthand is that mine is a LOT thicker. And although my head is
unusually large, I don't think of it as unusual in any other ways.

I have a contrary opinion on that... ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

(Carl Fogel) said:

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If by scalp you mean skin, yes. But there are also muscle, fascia, ligaments, and fat, which for
the purposes of taking a whack to the noggin must tally up in the "scalp" column.

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you are missng the layer between skin and bone.

Essentially, there is no layer between the skin and bone when we're talking about the scalp--the
scalp is often cited as the thickest skin on our bodies and covers almost nothing except bone.

...

Quoted message said:

Press a finger into the areas covered by a helmet and you'll feel the bone immediately under the
skin--wiggle your finger back and forth and you'll feel the skin sliding around over the bone.

Surprise! It ain't bone. Mine is still dented now, a year later, though not as deeply as before (and
it has hardened up again). If the scalp were as thin as you say, this dent would constitute a
displaced skull fracture. But as I've said, there wasn't a fracture. The skin still slides over this
area as you describe, but it's sliding over a dented portion of something other than bone.

The subcutaneous layer feels hard 'cause it's bound up with tough connective tissue, but it's still
a fleshy layer.

anatomy-resources.comsh202 ca.jpgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

It's about like the skin covering the bump of bone on the outside of your wrist, just thicker.

There are no muscles there. But there are muscles on your head, all the way over. Plus the ligaments
that tie to them and the fascia that wrap them up.

Quoted message said:

Scalp wounds bleed profusely and swell alarmingly, producing a much thicker, swollen area in a
surprisingly short time--the "knot" or "bump" with which we're all familiar. This often gives us a
mistaken impression of scalp thickness.

Well, the mushy spot in my noggin was far and away deepest before the swelling began. And if it had
not seemed plenty deep enough to indicate a hole in my skull, I'd not have bothered going to the
hospital to get a professional opinion.

Quoted message said:

If you have a wound requiring stitching, the swelling will be local and will give a distressing
impression of depth, like the dent that you suffered that seemed so deep by the time that you got
to the ER.

There was never any bleeding. The skin was not broken. What _was _ broken was the seemingly hard
layer of tissue that lay between my scalp and my skull.

By the time there was swelling, the hole in my head had gotten a bit shallower, but there was also a
huge hematoma directly behind the dent, causing a dramatic sinusoidal wave atop my head. The
hematoma subsided over the next month or so, but the dent remains, still gradually filling in.

Quoted message said:

Your ears actually offer more padding than your scalp.

Consider this: With my head tilted down, I hit my head against an unpadded steel tube about 2" in
diameter, hard enough to pop joints all the way down my neck and back. Hard enough to bend the
28.6mm chromoly steel seatpost upon which I was sitting. Yet my skull was not broken and neither was
my scalp. _Something_ absorbed that blow and went all mushy. What do you propose it was?

Chalo Colina

(Chalo) said:

Quoted message said:

Combined, the scalp and skull are only about half an inch thick. Crainial scans and EEG sensors
depend on this.

If you say so; what I know firsthand is that mine is a LOT thicker.

I hope that's a deliberate attempt at humor. If not...well...er...

We know. 😉

Quoted message said:

And although my head is unusually large

Umm...again, I am completely unable to avoid it: We know. 😉

Quoted message said:

Chalo Colina

--
Rick Onanian

(Chalo) said:

Consider this: With my head tilted down, I hit my head against an unpadded steel tube about 2" in
diameter, hard enough to pop joints all the way down my neck and back. Hard enough to bend the
28.6mm chromoly steel seatpost upon which I was sitting. Yet my skull was

That's not a useful measure. Your weight is near enough as it is, unless we're talking about a solid
28.6mm diameter.

Quoted message said:

not broken and neither was my scalp. _Something_ absorbed that blow and went all mushy. What do you
propose it was?

[avoiding helmet war]

Quoted message said:

Chalo Colina

--
Rick "avoid helmet war. Must avoid helmet war. Must..." Onanian

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Carl Fogel) said:

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If by scalp you mean skin, yes. But there are also muscle, fascia, ligaments, and fat, which
for the purposes of taking a whack to the noggin must tally up in the "scalp" column.

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you are missng the layer between skin and bone.

Essentially, there is no layer between the skin and bone when we're talking about the scalp--the
scalp is often cited as the thickest skin on our bodies and covers almost nothing except bone.

...

Quoted message said:

Press a finger into the areas covered by a helmet and you'll feel the bone immediately under the
skin--wiggle your finger back and forth and you'll feel the skin sliding around over the bone.

Surprise! It ain't bone. Mine is still dented now, a year later, though not as deeply as before
(and it has hardened up again). If the scalp were as thin as you say, this dent would constitute a
displaced skull fracture. But as I've said, there wasn't a fracture. The skin still slides over
this area as you describe, but it's sliding over a dented portion of something other than bone.

The subcutaneous layer feels hard 'cause it's bound up with tough connective tissue, but it's
still a fleshy layer.

anatomy-resources.comsh202 ca.jpgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

It's about like the skin covering the bump of bone on the outside of your wrist, just thicker.

There are no muscles there. But there are muscles on your head, all the way over. Plus the
ligaments that tie to them and the fascia that wrap them up.

Quoted message said:

Scalp wounds bleed profusely and swell alarmingly, producing a much thicker, swollen area in a
surprisingly short time--the "knot" or "bump" with which we're all familiar. This often gives us
a mistaken impression of scalp thickness.

Well, the mushy spot in my noggin was far and away deepest before the swelling began. And if it
had not seemed plenty deep enough to indicate a hole in my skull, I'd not have bothered going to
the hospital to get a professional opinion.

Quoted message said:

If you have a wound requiring stitching, the swelling will be local and will give a distressing
impression of depth, like the dent that you suffered that seemed so deep by the time that you
got to the ER.

There was never any bleeding. The skin was not broken. What _was _ broken was the seemingly hard
layer of tissue that lay between my scalp and my skull.

By the time there was swelling, the hole in my head had gotten a bit shallower, but there was also
a huge hematoma directly behind the dent, causing a dramatic sinusoidal wave atop my head. The
hematoma subsided over the next month or so, but the dent remains, still gradually filling in.

Quoted message said:

Your ears actually offer more padding than your scalp.

Consider this: With my head tilted down, I hit my head against an unpadded steel tube about 2" in
diameter, hard enough to pop joints all the way down my neck and back. Hard enough to bend the
28.6mm chromoly steel seatpost upon which I was sitting. Yet my skull was not broken and neither
was my scalp. _Something_ absorbed that blow and went all mushy. What do you propose it was?

Chalo Colina

Dear Chalo,

Sorry, but average thickness is about 6mm scalp, 7mm skull. It's easy to be deceived, but your
fingertips will confirm what real x-rays and MRI's and corpses reveal. Feel the bony area on the
back of your wrist and then feel your scalp.

The picture at:

anatomy-resources.comsh202 ca.jpgOpen ↗

is just a plastic demo model. If you take another look, you'll see that this model shows no scalp
layer above the skull. It's more an idealized model intended to show where major structures lie than
an accurate copy.

Here's the real thing, an x-ray showing a similar cross-section of a normal skull--nothing gory,
just black and white:

liv.ac.ukstk1.htmlOpen ↗

As the text and numbered markers explain, the skull shows up as three thin layers, two inner
and outer white lines of solid bone that sandwich a very narrow grayish area of cancellous bone
(swiss-cheese) that pretty much vanishes from sight on the top of the skull because it's so
thin there.

Very faintly, you can just make out a thin gray halo next to the outer bone layer--the scalp. It's
cut off at the top, but fairly clear on the forehead and the area around the markers. For judging
thickness, compare this thin gray shadow to the the noticeably thicker exposed parts of the teeth
above the deep dental roots.

If you want something closer to the stylized plastic demo, the same site shows an MRI:

liv.ac.ukmri2.htmlOpen ↗

Unfortunately, an MRI is much messier and trickier to interpret. That black area marked "1", for
example, is an empty frontal sinus. The whole MRI is deceptive concerning the thickness of the skull
because it's not a clean slice down the center, but is instead offset enough to slice through the
corner of the mouth and not even touch most of the nose. This offset exaggerages the thickness of
the skull--we're looking sideways into a pot lying on one side, so the walls of the pot look thicker
than they really are:

____________________
/ \
/ _______________ \
/ / ___________ \ \
/ / / \::\ \
| / / \::\ || / / \::\ || offset slice \ \ /::/ || || <--true thickness \ \ /::/ || /::/
| <--apparent thickness \ \___________/::/ || \_______________/ /
\ /
\ /
\_____________________/

On the principle that it never hurts to check when I think I'm right, I badgered a few clients
today. Folks who graduated from medical school and have been in practice 20-30 years all volunteered
immediately that the scalp is some of the thickest skin on our bodies--about a quarter of an inch
thick, about 6mm. Nothing else worth noting stands between our skulls and the barber.

The 6mm scalp thickness figure includes what fat, muscle, tendon, and ligament exists on our upper
domes. (Your hat size doesn't change when you gain or lose weight, just as no amount of strenuous
ear-wiggling or brow-furrowing will give you bulging body-builder scalp muscles--there just isn't
much there beyond the unusually thick hide. Grit your teeth with your hands on the sides of your
head but nothing on top.)

As for your accident, it sounds like typical blunt trauma to the top of the head--a broad impact
(even though it felt painfully narrow) on top of an exceptionally strong, almost spherical structure
that makes the most of thin bone plates, with much of the force dissipated down the series of
rubbery spinal disks--thank heavens!

What's left, even a year later, may be the remains of the haematoma, some calcifying scar tissue, or
even a healing fracture. (If there's no sign of intra-cranial bleeding, treatment for many small
skull fractures consists of telling the patient not to do that again.) In our private email, I
mentioned the gorgeous skull photo in "Bones." Elsewhere in R. McNeill Alexander's book, you can see
a healed rib fracture that shows just how much bone can be deposited at the site of an injury.

Keep in mind that even at your impressive weight, your neck will break before the top of your skull
if you stand on your head. If the force of your accident had been concentrated in a point or even
just a narrower edged line, we probably wouldn't be discussing anatomy.

Sadly, it helps to have dealt with human skulls in various stages of injury and decomposition.
X-rays and MRI scans are a much nicer way to get at this sort of thing, but once you handle a real
smashed skull or dangling scalp, you get an idea of how thin things are.

Carl Fogel

P.S. Here's a marvelous phrase that I stumbled across while looking for a nice MRI link: "Thirty
healthy controls [for scalp thickness EEG testing] were examined using an auditory evoked P300
elicited by a standard oddball paradigm."

I now long to know what a "standard oddball paradigm" is. Perhaps I've been using them for years.

C.F.