making glucose syrup from starch

You do not need pancreatic enzymes. Amylases are present in germinating
grains - like malted barley. That is how rice syrup is made - there are
no simple sugars in rice, before you add malt to break down the rice
starch.

Please note that complete enzymatic hydrolysis would take ridiculous
quantity of enzyme or time (it would get mouldy faster). So what you
would get is actualy a mix of glucose, maltose and higher oligos,
called maltodextrin.

You can do hydrolysis of starch by heating it with diluted sulfuric
acid. To get the acid out, you neutralise with powdered CaCO3 and
filter.

Lacustral said:

I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody

help

Quoted message said:

me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases -

they

Quoted message said:

use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I

Quoted message said:

think) used in beer brewing.

I've read that you cook a starch/water mixture, keeping it at 150 F
somehow (what's a good way to keep a constant temperature?) and at

pH

Quoted message said:

about 5.5-5.6. I guess i could lower the pH with cream of tartar if
necessary.

I'm allergic to corn & somewhat fructose intolerant, and syrup
from starch should have very little fructose in it.

laura

muha () said:

You do not need pancreatic enzymes. Amylases are present in germinating
grains - like malted barley. That is how rice syrup is made - there are
no simple sugars in rice, before you add malt to break down the rice
starch.

I can't eat grains, so I'm planning to start with a non-grain starch, like
tapioca starch or arrowroot starch. So I need to add some kind of amylase
enzyme.

Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave residues
that are inedible?

thanks
Laura

Quoted message said:

Lacustral said:

I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody

help

Quoted message said:

me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases -

they

Quoted message said:

use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

think) used in beer brewing.

I've read that you cook a starch/water mixture, keeping it at 150 F
somehow (what's a good way to keep a constant temperature?) and at

pH

Quoted message said:

about 5.5-5.6. I guess i could lower the pH with cream of tartar if
necessary.

I'm allergic to corn & somewhat fructose intolerant, and syrup
from starch should have very little fructose in it.

laura

Lacustral said:

Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave

residues

Quoted message said:

that are inedible?

It would leave behind some calcium sulfate, i.e. gypsum.

Lacustral said:

I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
think) used in beer brewing.

I can't help with your problem, but in brewing beer
we use the naturally-occuring enzymes that are present
in malted barley (and wheat). No added enzymes are
typically used.
--
Joel Plutchak "I'm in beer class / Every Thursday night"
[email hidden] - "Sinister Foxx", _Title TK_, The Breeders

muha () said:

You can do hydrolysis of starch by heating it with diluted sulfuric
acid. To get the acid out, you neutralise with powdered CaCO3 and
filter.

How does this exactly work, like how hot, what concentration sulfuric
acid, etc.? And can one get sulfuric acid, CaCO3 (calcium carbonate?)
that one would be OK with eating the end product? (no carcinogenic
contaminants etc.?

Laura

Lacustral said:

I can't eat grains, so I'm planning to start with a non-grain starch, like
tapioca starch or arrowroot starch. So I need to add some kind of amylase
enzyme.

Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave residues
that are inedible?

thanks
Laura

Is your problem with grains the gluten, i.e., celiac disease? If so,
there are a number of resources out there about brewing gluten free
beers. Generally these involve using malted white sorgum, malted
buckwheat, and sometimes rice syrup. You might try this site:
http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/gf/

Hope this helps.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

I cannot recommend doing this for a human consumption as a sweetener on
your own. It is not worth the effort and risks. And you would need
food-grade chemicals.

Also, you can buy glucose cheaply.

Please note that glucose is very weak sweetener - several times less
sweet than sucrose. What is wrong with using sugar, anyway? It tastes
better, too. Or you can buy fructose or use honey.

Wayne said:

Lacustral said:

I can't eat grains, so I'm planning to start with a non-grain starch,
like
tapioca starch or arrowroot starch. So I need to add some kind of
amylase
enzyme.
Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave residues
that are inedible?

thanks
Laura

Is your problem with grains the gluten, i.e., celiac disease? If so,
there are a number of resources out there about brewing gluten free
beers. Generally these involve using malted white sorgum, malted
buckwheat, and sometimes rice syrup. You might try this site:
http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/gf/

Hope this helps.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

Malted sorghum? I thought that contained lethal amounts of cyanic
glucosides. The levels of cyanide might be reduced to safe levels during
fermentation (I don't know, this is the first time I've heard of using
malted sorghum to make beer), but the original poster is not planning to
ferment it but instead to make syrup. It could be extremely dangerous.

Best regards,
Bob

"Joel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: Lacustral <[email hidden]> wrote:
: >I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
: >me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
: >use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
: >from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
: >think) used in beer brewing.
:
: I can't help with your problem, but in brewing beer
: we use the naturally-occuring enzymes that are present
: in malted barley (and wheat). No added enzymes are
: typically used.
: --
but don't you heat in acidic conditions to make your wort?
cheers
Wazza

Quoted message said:

Malted sorghum? I thought that contained lethal amounts of cyanic
glucosides. The levels of cyanide might be reduced to safe levels during
fermentation (I don't know, this is the first time I've heard of using
malted sorghum to make beer), but the original poster is not planning to
ferment it but instead to make syrup. It could be extremely dangerous.

For almost 100% malted sorghum beer, check out:
http://www.bardsbeer.com/

Derric said:

Quoted message said:

Malted sorghum? I thought that contained lethal amounts of cyanic
glucosides. The levels of cyanide might be reduced to safe levels during
fermentation (I don't know, this is the first time I've heard of using
malted sorghum to make beer), but the original poster is not planning to
ferment it but instead to make syrup. It could be extremely dangerous.

For almost 100% malted sorghum beer, check out:
http://www.bardsbeer.com/

Thanks. If I can find it, I'll have to try it. But that doesn't reduce
the danger in trying to make syrup from sprouted sorghum.

Best regards,
Bob

Wazza said:

"Joel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message:
: Lacustral <[email hidden]> wrote:
: >I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
: >me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
: >use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
: >from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
: >think) used in beer brewing.
:
: I can't help with your problem, but in brewing beer
: we use the naturally-occuring enzymes that are present
: in malted barley (and wheat). No added enzymes are
: typically used.

but don't you heat in acidic conditions to make your wort?

We heat, and many of us don't do explicit acidification--
we simply heat the grains in water and let the chips fall
where they may wrt pH.
--
Joel Plutchak "I'm in beer class / Every Thursday night"
[email hidden] - "Sinister Foxx", _Title TK_, The Breeders

Lacustral said:

I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
think) used in beer brewing.

Wouldn't it be easier just to buy the liquid glucose? Or else buy powder
glucose and make your own liquid?

The problem here seems to food intollerances - corn and fructose.
You say you can't eat grains - does that mean all grains or just some of
them?

Mashing a starch with enzymes (need both alpha and beta amylases), is
not a very good solution as there are some problems.

First - a mixture of sugars will be produced, including fructose and
fructans.

Second - And you need to consider the gelatinisation temperature of the
starch and this varies with its source. Rice has a high gelatinisation
temperature, tapioca and potato have low gelatinisation temperatures.
The starch needs to be gelatinised before the enzymes can easily convert
the starches to sugars.

Glucose syrup is mainly produced by acid hydrolysis of corn or wheat
starch, but can use any starch. You can find information about the
process on the web.

Some sugars in Europe are produced from sugar beet, so it may be
possible to locate a glucose syrup made from this.

Making glucose syrup yourself is not going to be easy.

Lacustral said:

I can't eat grains, so I'm planning to start with a non-grain starch, like
tapioca starch or arrowroot starch. So I need to add some kind of amylase
enzyme.

Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave residues
that are inedible?

thanks
Laura

Quoted message said:

Lacustral said:

I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody

help

Quoted message said:

me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases -

they

Quoted message said:

use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
think) used in beer brewing.

I've read that you cook a starch/water mixture, keeping it at 150 F
somehow (what's a good way to keep a constant temperature?) and at

pH

Quoted message said:

about 5.5-5.6. I guess i could lower the pH with cream of tartar if
necessary.

I'm allergic to corn & somewhat fructose intolerant, and syrup
from starch should have very little fructose in it.

laura

In article said:

I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
think) used in beer brewing.

I've read that you cook a starch/water mixture, keeping it at 150 F
somehow (what's a good way to keep a constant temperature?) and at pH
about 5.5-5.6. I guess i could lower the pH with cream of tartar if
necessary.

I'm allergic to corn & somewhat fructose intolerant, and syrup
from starch should have very little fructose in it.

laura

Only thing that I think is even remotely possible is using koji to convert
starces to glucose. Search web with words amazake (sweet sake), sake, koji
and 'Aspergillus oryzae'.

for example http://olen.eng.ohio-state.edu/sake/Ch5.htm But I would
incubate in a lower temperature (35-40 C ?) for something like 1 day
first and then increase to 65 C for 12 hours.

seismo malm

On Wed, 18 May 2005 14:00:31 -0500, zxcvbob <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Malted sorghum? I thought that contained lethal amounts of cyanic
glucosides. The levels of cyanide might be reduced to safe levels during
fermentation (I don't know, this is the first time I've heard of using
malted sorghum to make beer), but the original poster is not planning to
ferment it but instead to make syrup. It could be extremely dangerous.

Through Googling, I don't think this is a problem. I have found
references that during malting, the cyanide-problem areas -- the new
shoots -- are removed. This seems to solve most of the problem. As an
example, per one set of scientists, HCN content is reduced by more
than 90% just by removing the shoots. Fermentation furthermore reduces
it by 70%. Since I don't have access to a bunch of university library
scientific papers or time, I can't look up how much cyanide is reduced
by additional malt kilning, or the one hour boil that you would
normally do during brewing.

Given that the cassava root, a plant that contains a bit more cyanide
ppm when mature, is consumed just fine via simple techniques like
toasting or fermentation, I'd speculate that the levels of cyanide one
is talking about in sorghum beer are so minimal as to actually be a
nutrient. 🙂

References:
http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/DOCREP/T0818e/T0818E09.htm
and a Google Scholar search on Dada and Dendy.
___________
To reply by email, chop off the head!

Chad Gould said:

On Wed, 18 May 2005 14:00:31 -0500, zxcvbob <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Malted sorghum? I thought that contained lethal amounts of cyanic
glucosides. The levels of cyanide might be reduced to safe levels during
fermentation (I don't know, this is the first time I've heard of using
malted sorghum to make beer), but the original poster is not planning to
ferment it but instead to make syrup. It could be extremely dangerous.

Through Googling, I don't think this is a problem. I have found
references that during malting, the cyanide-problem areas -- the new
shoots -- are removed. This seems to solve most of the problem. As an
example, per one set of scientists, HCN content is reduced by more
than 90% just by removing the shoots. Fermentation furthermore reduces
it by 70%. Since I don't have access to a bunch of university library
scientific papers or time, I can't look up how much cyanide is reduced
by additional malt kilning, or the one hour boil that you would
normally do during brewing.

Given that the cassava root, a plant that contains a bit more cyanide
ppm when mature, is consumed just fine via simple techniques like
toasting or fermentation, I'd speculate that the levels of cyanide one
is talking about in sorghum beer are so minimal as to actually be a
nutrient. 🙂

The original poster might not have known that sorghum sprouts are
poisonous. (notice how wide his crossposting net was cast)

BTW, about a month ago there was a news story about a bunch of kids who
died from HCN poisoning after eating improperly prepared fried cassava
chips that one of them brought to school for a snack -- purchased from a
street vendor, IIRC.

Best regards,
Bob

Chad Gould said:

Given that the cassava root, a plant that contains a bit more cyanide
ppm when mature, is consumed just fine via simple techniques like
toasting or fermentation, I'd speculate that the levels of cyanide one
is talking about in sorghum beer are so minimal as to actually be a
nutrient. 🙂

You are giving advice that could kill someone.

A knowledgeable user (and that includes those who have routinely
handled, say, cassava over generations and learned how) will deal with
it. A naive user may or may not; advising them that it is not a
problem is unwise, and dangerous.

bob

Bob said:

Chad Gould said:

Given that the cassava root, a plant that contains a bit more

cyanide

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ppm when mature, is consumed just fine via simple techniques like
toasting or fermentation, I'd speculate that the levels of cyanide

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is talking about in sorghum beer are so minimal as to actually be a
nutrient. 🙂

You are giving advice that could kill someone.
A knowledgeable user (and that includes those who have routinely
handled, say, cassava over generations and learned how) will deal

with

Quoted message said:

it. A naive user may or may not; advising them that it is not a
problem is unwise, and dangerous.

If one makes a post like "you can preserve foods by canning at home,
the risk of botulism can be minimalized with proper techniques such as
a boiling water bath, etc.", I suppose that too is advice that could
kill someone? *shrug*

I guess that's good, because if you are stupid enough *not* to look up
the basic techniques of throughly cooking / soaking / sun-drying /
fermenting / etc. cassava, and/or knowing what types of food can be
canned with a water bath and what needs pressure cooker canning... you
deserve that painful / deadly lesson. Darwinism works, right?

Methinks the multiple amount of newsgroups, anyways, are causing many
people to go way off topic. The original poster did not mention malted
sorghum at all, however because this was posted in a beer-brewing
newsgroup along with a chemistry newsgroup and a cooking newsgroup, it
somewhat strayed towards gluten-free brewing substances. The main point
was that the cyanide in malted sorghum is insignificant especially
after doing all you do with malted sorghum for brewing purposes.
Cyanide is also insignificant in properly prepared cassava (as plenty
of tapioca pudding lovers can attest). Raw sorghum shoots and raw
cassava tubers, of course, can poison you. No duh.

As far as the original request, I'll be damned why you actually want to
make glucose syrup via enzyme action, except maybe for your own
chemistry amusement. For consumption, the original poster just should
by a huge jug of corn syrup for cheap, since corn syrup is nearly 100%
glucose syrup to begin with.