Making bread rise without yeast

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmm1951 said:

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
envelopes).

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

"Miche" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmm1951 said:

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

use sourdough.

Look in rec.food.sourdough you can get a free starter there and learn how
to keep it going

In article <[email hidden]>, "Ophelia" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Miche" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmm1951 said:

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

use sourdough.

Look in rec.food.sourdough you can get a free starter there and learn how
to keep it going

Um, I didn't say any of that.

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

"Miche" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Ophelia" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Miche" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
jmm1951 <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
> yeasts, etc.

use sourdough.

Look in rec.food.sourdough you can get a free starter there and learn
how
to keep it going

Um, I didn't say any of that.

Oh! well, whoever did say it, I hope you get to read my response

apologies to Miche!

"Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 11:39:41 -0600, "Janet B." <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:29:38 -0700, jmm1951 <[email hidden]> wrote:

A link for reading up on some great recipes that use these
pre-ferments is here:

http://www.theartisan.net/bredfrm.htm

Another all around good site for bread baking in general is here:

http://www.barryharmon.com/

Now, for more fun, come on over to alt.bread.recipes.

Boron

You forgot http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/ the FAQ for alt.bread.recipes
Janet

AAK! Slap me with a wet noodle!

Thanks, Janet.....boy, of all things to forget!

Boron

That's far too severe for simple forgetfulness. A tsk, tsk is enough. ;o}
Janet

"Miche" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmm1951 said:

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
envelopes).

Miche

I don't even keep it in the freezer, I refrigerate it and it always keeps
until used up.
Dee Dee

Miche said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmm1951 said:

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
envelopes).

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

Thanks to all who have replied with very helpful information and
hints.

Yes, buying in bulk and freezing is probably the best solution to
pricey yeast in individual packets. If I remember to buy it, that is.
The nearest place (Sam's) is almost 50 miles away and I don't always
remember to buy things when I go into town (infrequently).

Yeast in the individual sachets in the supermarket is not a HUGE cost,
but if you are looking at how much bread you can make with one 5 lbs
bag of flour, then the yeast, if bought in individual sachets, become
a significant part of the cost of production of each loaf. I have also
been making several batches of ginger beer recently and going through
sachets of Red Star like nobody's business.

It is probably true that when you add in the cost of power for baking
that home-made bread is no great economic saving, but you can't buy
decent bread where I live at any price. I guess there is no demand for
it when tortillas are a cheap staple and easy to make.

Boron Elgar said:

jmm1951 said:

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

snip starter recipes...

If your hesitation in using yeast is cost only, do go ahead and buy a
1lb container from any club store around. The stuff lasts forever and
a day in the freezer and only forever in the fridge. I used 2.5 yr old
yeast to make bread over the weekend. No problemo.

Yeah, but unfortunately you can only do that with dry yeasts.
Dry yeasts are okay, but I really prefer fresh yeast. I was
always a Fleischmann's fanatic but I recently switched to Red Star.
Fleischmann's costs about $3 for a large block of fresh, whereas
Red Star is only about $2, here in Pgh.

Kate
--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?
[email hidden]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 10:45:47 -0400, Kate Connally <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Boron Elgar said:

jmm1951 said:

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

snip starter recipes...

If your hesitation in using yeast is cost only, do go ahead and buy a
1lb container from any club store around. The stuff lasts forever and
a day in the freezer and only forever in the fridge. I used 2.5 yr old
yeast to make bread over the weekend. No problemo.

Yeah, but unfortunately you can only do that with dry yeasts.
Dry yeasts are okay, but I really prefer fresh yeast. I was
always a Fleischmann's fanatic but I recently switched to Red Star.
Fleischmann's costs about $3 for a large block of fresh, whereas
Red Star is only about $2, here in Pgh.

Kate

Go into a bakery and ask them to sell you some fresh yeast...which
also freezes well, by the way. I get fresh yeast in one lb blocks.

Boron

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dee Dee said:

"Miche" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmm1951 said:

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
envelopes).

I don't even keep it in the freezer, I refrigerate it and it always keeps
until used up.

My last yeast purchase was a 1.5kg (3.3 pound) bucket of dried yeast.
It lives in the freezer for two reasons:

1. It lasts a _lot_ longer that way
2. We have a tiny fridge.

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

In article <[email hidden]>, "Ophelia" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Miche" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Ophelia" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Miche" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> jmm1951 <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
>> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
>> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
>> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
>> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
>> yeasts, etc.

use sourdough.

Look in rec.food.sourdough you can get a free starter there and learn
how
to keep it going

Um, I didn't say any of that.

Oh! well, whoever did say it, I hope you get to read my response

apologies to Miche!

All good. 🙂

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

"jmm1951" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

An old library book on breads (forget the title) gave me this recipe:

***
Witch Yeast

1 cup mashed potato
1/4 cup sugar
2 teaspoons salt
1 cup warm water

Stir together in jar and cover with cloth. Leave 2 days. Use or sea
and refrigerate.

***

So I gave this a whirl and it worked fine. Made a loaf of bread with a
stirred batter of about 50% white bread flour, 50% rye flour, plus
some water, salt and caraway seeds. Placed it in baking tin, covered
it with cling film, and left it on the kitchen counter for a few
hours. It eventually doubled in size. (My kitchen is a Florida kitchen
and is not air-conditioned, so if you live in Greenland, you may get
different results.)

I baked it the normal way. (Pan of steaming H2O in electric oven, 10
mins at 450, then 25 mins at 375.)

Result perfect loaf, soft crust, chewy, tight crumb, nice flavor,
except for one thing. IT SMELLS OF POTATOES. Well, duh, silly me, of
course it does, and it went fine with my lunch today of borsch with
sour cream and bread and butter.

Now, I have another recipe for a sourdough starter, which is coming
along fine:

***

2 cups rye flour
1 1/2 cups warm water
1 package dry yeast
1 slice onion.

Stir, cover, stand 3 days. Remove onion. Use or seal and refridgerate.

***

So far this smells wonderful, and I am sure it will work fine and make
an even better bread, but it still has yeast in it. Anyone have any
ideas on making a good sourdough starter for a rye loaf without using
any yeast?

A bit OT, but I buy Red Star instant yeast in a two lb foil bag at Costco
and keep it frozen.
It lasts for years. It's extremely cheap. <$5/two lb bag.

Kent

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 06:21:55 -0600, "Janet B." <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You forgot http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/ the FAQ for alt.bread.recipes
Janet

AAK! Slap me with a wet noodle!

Thanks, Janet.....boy, of all things to forget!

Boron

That's far too severe for simple forgetfulness. A tsk, tsk is enough. ;o}
Janet

Well, ok, then....🙂

Boron

jmm1951 said:

Yeast in the individual sachets in the supermarket is not a HUGE cost,
but if you are looking at how much bread you can make with one 5 lbs
bag of flour, then the yeast, if bought in individual sachets, become
a significant part of the cost of production of each loaf. I have also
been making several batches of ginger beer recently and going through
sachets of Red Star like nobody's business.

You can order yeast on the Internet. If you have to drive 100 miles to
buy in bulk, it's cheaper to pay for shipping.

Besides, don't you need brewer's yeast for ginger beer? That, too is
available online.

Quoted message said:

It is probably true that when you add in the cost of power for baking
that home-made bread is no great economic saving, but you can't buy
decent bread where I live at any price. I guess there is no demand for
it when tortillas are a cheap staple and easy to make.

Around here, "artisan" style bread is $2,99 a loaf at the cheapest. It
is often a dollar more than that. At the fancy-pants bakeries, it can
cost even more.

Still, there is nothing as tasty as home baked bread. Here are some
favorite snaps of breads I've made. All of these are sourdough. Alas,
I used to have a lot more photos, but Yahoo ate the bread group that
some buddies and I posted to.

http://i2.tinypic.com/ra2des.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/ra2cdv.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/s6qc6r.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/33es9hy.jpg

If you are baking bread, it is more economical to make multiple
loaves. Like yeast, bread freezes quite well. Your time is put to
better use and it is a more economical use of your oven, too.

If you are hesitant to deal with 5-6 loaves fermenting at the same
time, slow down some of them by putting them into the fridge. It'll
take awhile of playing around, but you 'll get the hang of timing the
rise.

Boron

Miche said:

Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
envelopes).

But they are soooo easy! What am I supposed to do w/o them? Measure
a teaspoon, a tablespoon.... WHAT, WHAT, WHAT?

--

Ham and eggs.
A day's work for the chicken, a lifetime commitment for the pig.

<sf> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Miche said:

Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
envelopes).

But they are soooo easy! What am I supposed to do w/o them? Measure
a teaspoon, a tablespoon.... WHAT, WHAT, WHAT?

Packaging is not easy for me -- opening those packages that 'jump' out of
your hands or spill some out on the counter as you are tearing/cutting them
open.

Buy your pound of yeast, activated or instant. Put it in a quarter jar with
a tight lid. Put it in the frig or freezer. Date the jar.
Put the rest in another jar and use it.

When I make bread, I have on my table, mis en place, water and oil, (wet);
flour and salt (dry) and YEAST. Each of these ingredients get measured.
Now, there is nothing hard about measuring yeast out of a jar; no harder
than measuring salt out of a container.

Do you actually know how much is in that packet? I do. I've never seen a
recipe that calls for the exact amount that is in this packet. (I'm sure
there are some, but I've never seen it yet.)
A recipe will call for either a packet or it will specify an amount in
teaspoons or tablespoons. For me a packet is too much for a 3-4 cup recipe.
Unless one likes a bread with a yeasty taste.

Ok, you can do it. Use a teaspoon or tablespoon. Forget those outdated
packets!
Dee Dee