Making a fixed-wheel bike

D.M. Procida said:

Following recent bike misadventures, I'm considering taking up a
friend's offer of an old frame, to turn it into a fixed-wheel bike.

He says it's an old touring frame with "relaxed geometry".

My main concern is that the bottom bracket will be too low and I'll keep
catching the pedals on the ground, something that I've done several
times lately on my old Raleigh hybrid.

What else do I need to consider?

I konw it needs to have horizontal drop-outs. What about axle spacing?

Daniele

consider spd pedals, you'll get cornering clearance, and loosing a pedal
because you forger you were on fixed is much more difficult 😉 If you
need conventional pedals fit the thinnest and narrowest you can find.
Shorter cranks or a nice fat tyre will help a lot.
You can bend an old steel frame to any hubwidth you want, but hubs are
available from 110 to 135mm

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

D.M. Procida said:

I konw it needs to have horizontal drop-outs. What about axle spacing?

Not a great problem. If it's an old road frame it'll either be 130mm or
(if very old 125mm), and I'm assuming it's steel.

That gives you two options

1) Buy a rear hub that can be run in 130mm OLN. Easy enough now or
2) Just respace the rear to 120mm and run a track hub. Costs not
a lot if you strip down the bike.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

In article <1i68e0g.1h02smm1lgpeqgN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-
juice.co.uk>, D.M. Procida
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Following recent bike misadventures, I'm considering taking up a
friend's offer of an old frame, to turn it into a fixed-wheel bike.

He says it's an old touring frame with "relaxed geometry".

My main concern is that the bottom bracket will be too low and I'll keep
catching the pedals on the ground, something that I've done several
times lately on my old Raleigh hybrid.

Short cranks with a low Q-factor and small (narrow, shallow) pedals help
improve the clearance. RHS cranks usually stick out further (although
if you're using a double or triple you'll need to fit a shorter axle to
get the chainline correct) and in the UK the road camber means you're
more likely to ground the RHS pedal anyway. :-(

Quoted message said:

What else do I need to consider?

I konw it needs to have horizontal drop-outs. What about axle spacing?

Horizontal-ish dropouts - you really want at least 1/2 inch of
adjustment to be able to tension the chain properly, although you can
get away with 1/4 inch if you use a half-link in the chain. If it's a
steel frame you can just bend it to suit the hub width - a fixed hub
tends to be 110mm or 120mm OLN, although you can often space it out a
bit especially if it has a solid axle rather than QR (this also gives
some leeway with the chainline adjustment).

In article <[email hidden]>, Arthur Clune
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

D.M. Procida said:

I konw it needs to have horizontal drop-outs. What about axle spacing?

Not a great problem. If it's an old road frame it'll either be 130mm or
(if very old 125mm), and I'm assuming it's steel.

If it's an old road frame it will be 126mm, or 120mm if it's very old.

On Oct 19, 12:47 pm, [email hidden]

(D.M. Procida) said:

Following recent bike misadventures, I'm considering taking up a
friend's offer of an old frame, to turn it into a fixed-wheel bike.

He says it's an old touring frame with "relaxed geometry".

My main concern is that the bottom bracket will be too low and I'll keep
catching the pedals on the ground, something that I've done several
times lately on my old Raleigh hybrid.

What else do I need to consider?

I konw it needs to have horizontal drop-outs. What about axle spacing?

You can always fit shorter cranks (160mm?) if you're worried about
pedal strikes. You might be allright with the drop-outs on an older
frame as they tend to be more diagonal than vertical so you could get
enough fore and aft positioning of the wheel to tension the chain - if
not, you could pop on a tensioner like this one:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=140

If you get a flip-flop hub you can run fixed on one side and a
freewheel on the other. Need to decide whether to have 1/8" or a
3/32" chain and cogs (or a mixture of both). Most fixies are 1/8, but
you could run 3/32 just as easy. If the chain is 1/8 you can run both
kinds of cog, but you can't run a 1/8th cog on a 3/32 chain because
the cog will be bigger than the chain.

I'd say it would be easiest to get a track hub, then you may as well
go for a 1/8th setup. Again, 'On-One' do a good wheel build for just
under £100 - pretty good and about a third of the cost of 'top end'
kit.

You'll also something like a Hozan C-205 Lockring spanner
http://www.hubjub.co.uk/etc/etc.htm for keeping the cog on - unless
you never brake by pedaling backwards as pedaling forwards will only
tighten the cog.

HTH,

Duncan

M-gineering said:

Quoted message said:

My main concern is that the bottom bracket will be too low and I'll keep
catching the pedals on the ground, something that I've done several
times lately on my old Raleigh hybrid.

What else do I need to consider?

I konw it needs to have horizontal drop-outs. What about axle spacing?

consider spd pedals, you'll get cornering clearance, and loosing a pedal
because you forger you were on fixed is much more difficult 😉 If you
need conventional pedals fit the thinnest and narrowest you can find.
Shorter cranks or a nice fat tyre will help a lot.

Fat tyres, no thanks! But yes, of course I would have SPDs.

Quoted message said:

You can bend an old steel frame to any hubwidth you want, but hubs are
available from 110 to 135mm

I thought bending was bad for frames, and was not advised. In fact in
the days when six-speed hubs were new, I remember reading strong
warnings not to try forcing them to fit by bending.

Daniele

In article <1i68hif.8w2rf2p5k39cN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-
juice.co.uk>, D.M. Procida
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I thought bending was bad for frames, and was not advised. In fact in
the days when six-speed hubs were new, I remember reading strong
warnings not to try forcing them to fit by bending.

Not generally a problem with steel (except perhaps for thin heat-treated
stuff like Reynolds 753). What you probably shouldn't do is to spring
the frame to fit a wider hub - this keeps it under constant tension and
may lead to weakening, while if you reset the frame it's a one-off
bending. You also need to make sure that the dropouts are parallel
after you've respaced them - an easy way to do this is to bolt a
(straight) axle into one side so it doesn't quite reach the opposite
dropout, and tweak it until it's pointing in the right direction, then
repeat on the other side. with single speed you obviously don't need to
worry about derailleur hanger alignment.

Duncan Smith said:

On Oct 19, 12:47 pm, [email hidden]

(D.M. Procida) said:

Following recent bike misadventures, I'm considering taking up a
friend's offer of an old frame, to turn it into a fixed-wheel bike.

Yeah, go for it. It's fun.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My main concern is that the bottom bracket will be too low and I'll keep
catching the pedals on the ground, something that I've done several
times lately on my old Raleigh hybrid.

Low profile pedals. I gather you're planning to use those new-fangled
clipless thingies- you should be fine with those as far a clearance
goes (though other fixie riders may laugh at you... or maybe that's
just me :-).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What else do I need to consider?

What gear you want- personally I like a lowish one (~64"😉, most
people seem to prefer something nearer 70). Cogs are easiest to find
around 15-16t, so if you can get a chainring around 42t that can make
it easier to get a likely gear.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I konw it needs to have horizontal drop-outs. What about axle spacing?

This can usually be fettled fairly easily- if you're using a "track
hub" then you can buy to suit, otherwise you'll probably want to
redish the wheel anyway. A suitable combination of dish, spacers etc
can usually be arrived at.

Quoted message said:

You can always fit shorter cranks (160mm?) if you're worried about
pedal strikes.

These can be quite hard to find. 165mm "track" chainsets are quite
readily available at a price, standard road ones are usually 170mm and
will probably work fine. 175mm ATB cranks are probably best avoided
for this application...

Quoted message said:

... You might be allright with the drop-outs on an older
frame as they tend to be more diagonal than vertical so you could get
enough fore and aft positioning of the wheel to tension the chain - if
not, you could pop on a tensioner like this one:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view...

NO! Not for a fixie. It'll work on a single-speed (which is what On-
One are listing it for) but won't take the strain from a fixie.

Quoted message said:

You'll also something like a Hozan C-205 Lockring spannerhttp://www.hubjub.co.uk/etc/etc.htmfor keeping the cog on - unless
you never brake by pedaling backwards as pedaling forwards will only
tighten the cog.

I prefer to use brakes to stop, as a general rule, though I sometimes
skid-stop the last bit to keep the cranks orientated for a good
launch. I, along with many others, havn't had any problems running
without a lockring. One of my fixies has a 22t cog (ie lots of
leverage) without a lockring and it doesn't unscrew. If not running a
back brake it might be worth ensuring you have one but otherwise I
wouldn't sweat it.

Cheers,
W.

Rob Morley said:

If it's an old road frame it will be 126mm, or 120mm if it's very old.

Opps. That's what I meant. Sigh.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

D.M. Procida said:

I thought bending was bad for frames, and was not advised. In fact in

I wasn't suggesting bending the frame (a PITA when changing the wheel
if nothing else) but getting a shop to reset the rear to a different
width.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

in message
<[email hidden]>, D.M.

Procida (') said:

M-gineering said:

Quoted message said:

My main concern is that the bottom bracket will be too low and I'll
keep catching the pedals on the ground, something that I've done
several times lately on my old Raleigh hybrid.

What else do I need to consider?

I konw it needs to have horizontal drop-outs. What about axle spacing?

consider spd pedals, you'll get cornering clearance, and loosing a pedal
because you forger you were on fixed is much more difficult 😉 If you
need conventional pedals fit the thinnest and narrowest you can find.
Shorter cranks or a nice fat tyre will help a lot.

Fat tyres, no thanks! But yes, of course I would have SPDs.

Quoted message said:

You can bend an old steel frame to any hubwidth you want, but hubs are
available from 110 to 135mm

I thought bending was bad for frames, and was not advised. In fact in
the days when six-speed hubs were new, I remember reading strong
warnings not to try forcing them to fit by bending.

You shouldn't bend aluminium frames, they don't like it and are prone to
snap. Not so much of a problem with steel.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

---===***<<< This space to let! >>>***===---
Yes! You, too, can SPAM in the Famous Brooke Rotating .sig!
---===***<<< Only $300 per line >>>***===---

D.M. Procida said:

Following recent bike misadventures, I'm considering taking up a
friend's offer of an old frame, to turn it into a fixed-wheel bike.

He says it's an old touring frame with "relaxed geometry".

I've just picked it up.

It's a Gudereit frame, "Veloring Esklusiv". A sticker on the seat post
says "25 CrMo 4".

There's another sticker indicating it might date from 88-91 (or maybe
that's when it was sold).

It has braze-ons for just about everything you could imagine, from a
kick-stand to mud-guards and dynamo.

The drop-outs are horizontal; the distance between them is 126mm.

Does that sound like a worthwhile candidate for turning into a
fixed-wheel bike?

Daniele

D.M. Procida said:

D.M. Procida said:

Following recent bike misadventures, I'm considering taking up a
friend's offer of an old frame, to turn it into a fixed-wheel bike.

He says it's an old touring frame with "relaxed geometry".

I've just picked it up.

It's a Gudereit frame, "Veloring Esklusiv". A sticker on the seat post
says "25 CrMo 4".

There's another sticker indicating it might date from 88-91 (or maybe
that's when it was sold).

It has braze-ons for just about everything you could imagine, from a
kick-stand to mud-guards and dynamo.

The drop-outs are horizontal; the distance between them is 126mm.

Does that sound like a worthwhile candidate for turning into a
fixed-wheel bike?

Daniele

not if you insist on 23mm tyres

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

M-gineering said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Following recent bike misadventures, I'm considering taking up a
friend's offer of an old frame, to turn it into a fixed-wheel bike.

He says it's an old touring frame with "relaxed geometry".

I've just picked it up.

It's a Gudereit frame, "Veloring Esklusiv". A sticker on the seat post
says "25 CrMo 4".

There's another sticker indicating it might date from 88-91 (or maybe
that's when it was sold).

It has braze-ons for just about everything you could imagine, from a
kick-stand to mud-guards and dynamo.

The drop-outs are horizontal; the distance between them is 126mm.

Does that sound like a worthwhile candidate for turning into a
fixed-wheel bike?

Quoted message said:

not if you insist on 23mm tyres

Why is that?

Is it because fatter tyres will make the necessary difference to pedal
clearance (and wouldn't shorter cranks solve that problem)?

Daniele

D.M. Procida said:

M-gineering said:

Quoted message said:

> Following recent bike misadventures, I'm considering taking up a
> friend's offer of an old frame, to turn it into a fixed-wheel bike.
>
> He says it's an old touring frame with "relaxed geometry".
I've just picked it up.

It's a Gudereit frame, "Veloring Esklusiv". A sticker on the seat post
says "25 CrMo 4".

There's another sticker indicating it might date from 88-91 (or maybe
that's when it was sold).

It has braze-ons for just about everything you could imagine, from a
kick-stand to mud-guards and dynamo.

The drop-outs are horizontal; the distance between them is 126mm.

Does that sound like a worthwhile candidate for turning into a
fixed-wheel bike?

Quoted message said:

not if you insist on 23mm tyres

Why is that?

Is it because fatter tyres will make the necessary difference to pedal
clearance (and wouldn't shorter cranks solve that problem)?

Daniele

it's probably designed with a lowish bracket and for 37mm tyres. 15mm
shorter cranks is quite a lot, and for what? Decent running 35mm's will
hardly be slower, much more surefooted if the roadsurface is bad, more
comfortable....

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Quoting D.M. Procida <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Does that sound like a worthwhile candidate for turning into a
fixed-wheel bike?

Check the bottom bracket height, as I discovered recently.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!
Today is Second Aponoia, October.

In article said:

Quoting D.M. Procida <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Does that sound like a worthwhile candidate for turning into a
fixed-wheel bike?

Check the bottom bracket height, as I discovered recently.

Thanks for the cranks. Now to find out if the old cotter pins will
fit, and where to get new ones from now Drake's have closed if not....

Quoting Alan Braggins <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the cranks. Now to find out if the old cotter pins will
fit, and where to get new ones from now Drake's have closed if not....

Sorry. I did not retrieve the extracted cotter pins. SJSC sell cotter
pins, FWIW...
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!
Today is Second Epithumia, October - a weekend and the Earth's Birthday.

In article <[email hidden]>, Alan Braggins
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the cranks. Now to find out if the old cotter pins will
fit,

Measure them?

Quoted message said:

and where to get new ones from now Drake's have closed if not....

Here?
http://www.discountbicycles.co.uk/biz/product.php?xProd=733