Magnesium

Quoted message said:

If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike frames ?

At least Pinarello and Merida make magnesium frames.

Ciao Maurizio, Bologna, Italy

Andrew-<< If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike frames ? >><BR><BR>

Local guy is selling Paketa(sp?), welded magnesium with a bit of aluminum, made in Russia. Very
similar to aluminum in terms of looks and I hear ride, wee bit lighter, not quite as
harsh(subjective).

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I read with interest that Ford had invested in a magnesium producing plant to produce lighter
bodied passenger cars

School chemistry and a 30's(?) race crash and then ban would suggest not a good idea.

Quoted message said:

(supposedly makes it easier to meet new fuel efficiency standards without reducing overall
vehicle size -

which

Quoted message said:

we all know is a communist plot).

Could be a capitalist(*) plot. In some years time, people will point at you and laugh if you own a
car built out of steel.

Quoted message said:

If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike frames ?

All sorts of alloys have Mg in them, just look for the ones that crumble into white dust.

There was a magnesium frame produced in the late '80s by Kirk Precision Engineering (From somewhere
in the UK IIRC), a mega-ugly, girder-like thing which did not catch on. I don't think it was all
that comfortable a ride either. It had a kind of compact design size-wise. I recall seeing a picture
of former Australian pro Phil Anderson racing on one while he was riding for the Dutch TVM team,
they might have tried them out for awhile

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike frames ?

At least Pinarello and Merida make magnesium frames.

Ciao Maurizio, Bologna, Italy

Hi all,

I've been talked into giving an hour-long clinic on bike maintenance at work and I'd appreciate any
comments people might have on the subject. I've been doing my own repairs since I was a teenager,
and have built-up a few bikes in my time.

What I'd like to get comments on is the level of what we can cover for beginners in a lunch hour.
This will be a hands-on workshop; participants are encouraged to bring their own bikes. My
thoughts are:

- tire changing and inflation.
- chain maintenance

If we have time, I'll talk about brake and derailer adjustment.

Is there anything I'm missing? Anything I should be doing instead?

--
Kind Regards, Bruce.

I read an article about a Berrylium bike that weighed 12 lbs in a Bicycling Mag a few years ago...
It cost a few years pay to get one. I haven't heard of any since...

NS

NS said:

I read an article about a Berrylium bike that weighed 12 lbs in a Bicycling Mag a few years ago...
It cost a few years pay to get one. I haven't heard of any since...

NS>

Univega claimed to have built 3 they never said if it was metallic beryllium or just an alloying
element in aluminum.

in either case the stuff is very dangerous (you can look up the MSDS on the web) and you wont be
seeing it in any consumer products any time soon.

It was just an advertising gimmick ..

Berrylium was banned in Formula 1 auto racing due to its toxic nature (it didn't help it is also
very expensive.)

"ajames54" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NS said:

I read an article about a Berrylium bike that weighed 12 lbs in a Bicycling Mag a few years
ago... It cost a few years pay to get one. I haven't heard of any since...

NS>

Univega claimed to have built 3 they never said if it was metallic beryllium or just an alloying
element in aluminum.

in either case the stuff is very dangerous (you can look up the MSDS on the web) and you wont be
seeing it in any consumer products any time soon.

It was just an advertising gimmick ..

"Maurizio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike frames ?

At least Pinarello and Merida make magnesium frames.

Hopefully they do alot better job than Kirk Precision did 10+ years ago. Don't remember Kirk? Most,
if not all, of their frames broken. Here's a pic from First Flight Bikes' Museum (where these
things belong):

firstflightbikes.comKirkPrecision.htmlOpen ↗

Not only where these frame brittle, they were also UGLY!!!

W K' may have said:

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I read with interest that Ford had invested in a magnesium producing plant to produce lighter
bodied passenger cars

As a minor alloy component with aluminum, used judiciously, there is no real safety issue. Pure mag
is not a good thing to use for much of anything; it can be ignited too easily. (Aluminum will burn,
too, but it takes a lot to get it lit.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(supposedly makes it easier to meet new fuel efficiency standards without reducing overall
vehicle size -

which

Quoted message said:

we all know is a communist plot).

Could be a capitalist(*) plot. In some years time, people will point at you and laugh if you own a
car built out of steel.

Or they'll oooh and ahhh in envy of your classic antique. Resins are gaining more favor for auto
components than magnesium, but there's still a good deal of demand for it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike frames ?

All sorts of alloys have Mg in them, just look for the ones that crumble into white dust.

Aluminum oxidizes to a white powder as well. Mg alloys tend to develop a darker gray patina,
although mass corrosion of Mg will be a white powder in most cases. I don't know of ways to prevent
aluminum or alloy corrosion in *all* circumstances, but there are techniques that can be applied in
certain places. Surface coatings, sacrificial anodes, avoidance of certain metal pairs in components
in direct contact, etc.

Dealing with aluminum corrosion is a big topic in the aviation world, particularly for WWII
preservationists and for commercial jet operators whose craft are 20 to 30 years old. (For that
matter, even owners of old Cessnas and Pipers have to pay attention to it.)

Rolls made car bodies of solid aluminum as far back as the '20s. Many are still in existence.

---
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Going OT here...

I once saw a MacGuyver episode where he filed shavings off of a magnesium bicycle frame and used
them to make [a fuse? a bomb? fire fuel? I can't remember] something very flammable.

Does magnesium really burn like that?

Andrew McLaren said:

There was a magnesium frame produced in the late '80s by Kirk Precision Engineering (From
somewhere in the UK IIRC), a mega-ugly, girder-like thing which did not catch on. I don't think it
was all that comfortable a ride either. It had a kind of compact design size-wise. I recall seeing
a picture of former Australian pro Phil Anderson racing on one while he was riding for the Dutch
TVM team, they might have tried them out for awhile

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike frames ?

At least Pinarello and Merida make magnesium frames.

Ciao Maurizio, Bologna, Italy

--
Rick Onanian

Interestingly enough,

I just got a new set of glasses, the frames are magnesium and say "pure magnesium" on them. In
answer to your question -- yes magnesium is very flammable, and burns "white", hence in powder form
it is used in flash bulbs.

Barton

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Going OT here...

I once saw a MacGuyver episode where he filed shavings off of a magnesium bicycle frame and used
them to make [a fuse? a bomb? fire fuel? I can't remember] something very flammable.

Does magnesium really burn like that?

Andrew McLaren said:

There was a magnesium frame produced in the late '80s by Kirk Precision Engineering (From
somewhere in the UK IIRC), a mega-ugly, girder-like thing which did not catch on. I don't think
it was all that comfortable

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ride either. It had a kind of compact design size-wise. I recall seeing

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

picture of former Australian pro Phil Anderson racing on one while he

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

riding for the Dutch TVM team, they might have tried them out for awhile

In article <[email hidden]>,

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

says...

Quoted message said:

> If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike

frames

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ?

At least Pinarello and Merida make magnesium frames.

Ciao Maurizio, Bologna, Italy

--
Rick Onanian

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.comOpen ↗).
Version: 6.0.495 / Virus Database: 294 - Release Date: 7/1/2003

Barton Brelem' may have said:

Interestingly enough,

I just got a new set of glasses, the frames are magnesium and say "pure magnesium" on them. In
answer to your question -- yes magnesium is very flammable, and burns "white", hence in powder form
it is used in flash bulbs.

Powdered magnesium and powdered aluminum both burn brilliantly white, and both are used in
fireworks. Mag burns faster in certain mixtures. Both tend to oxidize due to exposure to air with
time, so such preparations are perishable. Aluminum is by far the safer material to handle in solid,
non-powdered form. (There is a magnesium extraction plant in Freeport, TX, that has been in
operation continuously since WWII; I've been inside the warehouses where they store the ingots for
shipment, and the protocols for those areas reflect the perceived hazard; if a fire starts, the
first duty of all present is to get the hell out of the area.)

Most flashbulbs use extremely fine wires of magnesium rather than powder, to give a more predictable
result. 19th-century-style flash powder trays (the v-shaped troughs that were held up by the
photographers in many of the silent movies) were filled with a mixture that could contain either mag
powder or aluminum powder mixed with an oxidizer; potassium perchlorate and potassium nitrate were
both used. (Yes, both mixtures are classified as explosives.)

---
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Andrew Price said:

I read with interest that Ford had invested in a magnesium producing plant to produce lighter
bodied passenger cars (supposedly makes it easier to meet new fuel efficiency standards without
reducing overall vehicle size - which we all know is a communist plot).

If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike frames ?

best , Andrew

Merida Bikes sell a range of Magnesium frame roadbikes here in Australia (German design, Taiwanese
manufacture) which are very light and supposed to ride very well. You could probably Google a
website eaily - I've not ridden them but the higher end machines seem popular enough, and they've
been around for 2 or 3 years. Questions of longevity & resilience remain unanswered.

Alex

Rick Onanian said:

Going OT here...

I once saw a MacGuyver episode where he filed shavings off of a magnesium bicycle frame and used
them to make [a fuse? a bomb? fire fuel? I can't remember] something very flammable.

Does magnesium really burn like that?

Pure magnesium will burn. Alloys; probably not. As was mentioned here, VW bug engines are cast
aluminum/magnesium/? alloy. Probably not flammable.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | More people object to wearing fur than leather because it is _`\(,_ | safer to harrass rich
white women than motorcycle gangs. (_)/ (_) |

Werehatrack said:

W K' may have said:

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I read with interest that Ford had invested in a magnesium producing plant to produce lighter
bodied passenger cars

As a minor alloy component with aluminum, used judiciously, there is no real safety issue. Pure mag
is not a good thing to use for much of anything; it can be ignited too easily. (Aluminum will burn,
too, but it takes a lot to get it lit.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(supposedly makes it easier to meet new fuel efficiency standards without reducing overall
vehicle size -

which

Quoted message said:

we all know is a communist plot).

Could be a capitalist(*) plot. In some years time, people will point at you and laugh if you own a
car built out of steel.

Or they'll oooh and ahhh in envy of your classic antique. Resins are gaining more favor for auto
components than magnesium, but there's still a good deal of demand for it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it works for cars, are magnesium alloys of use in making bike frames ?

All sorts of alloys have Mg in them, just look for the ones that crumble into white dust.

Aluminum oxidizes to a white powder as well. Mg alloys tend to develop a darker gray patina,
although mass corrosion of Mg will be a white powder in most cases. I don't know of ways to prevent
aluminum or alloy corrosion in *all* circumstances, but there are techniques that can be applied in
certain places. Surface coatings, sacrificial anodes, avoidance of certain metal pairs in
components in direct contact, etc.

Dealing with aluminum corrosion is a big topic in the aviation world, particularly for WWII
preservationists and for commercial jet operators whose craft are 20 to 30 years old. (For that
matter, even owners of old Cessnas and Pipers have to pay attention to it.)

Rolls made car bodies of solid aluminum as far back as the '20s. Many are still in existence.

---
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Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

It is not uncommon to find blocks of Magnesium bolted into older aluminum skinned cars (and even
some of the chrome monsters from the '50s) ... the theory is the Mag acts as a sacrificial anode ...
though why they don't use zinc like boat owners do I'll never figure out...

ajames54 may have said:

It is not uncommon to find blocks of Magnesium bolted into older aluminum skinned cars (and even
some of the chrome monsters from the '50s) ... the theory is the Mag acts as a sacrificial anode
... though why they don't use zinc like boat owners do I'll never figure out...

Zinc works better, but mag is lighter, and a mag block will stay in one piece more reliably than
zinc. In the early '80s, several carmakers experimented with zinc anodes for a while again; to the
best of my knowledge, they all concluded that better surface treatments and coatings were a much
more reliable solution.

---
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.

Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ajames54 may have said:

It is not uncommon to find blocks of Magnesium bolted into older aluminum skinned cars (and even
some of the chrome monsters from the '50s) ... the theory is the Mag acts as a sacrificial anode
... though why they don't use zinc like boat owners do I'll never figure out...

Zinc works better, but mag is lighter, and a mag block will stay in one piece more reliably than
zinc. In the early '80s, several carmakers experimented with zinc anodes for a while again; to the
best of my knowledge, they all concluded that better surface treatments and coatings were a much
more reliable solution.

sacrificial anodes only work to protect a more reactive metal. As it goes iron<zinc<Al<Mg

Zinc will protect iron (hence steel), but could not protect Al

Al should not corrode much anyway, as it naturally has a thick oxide coat to protect it.

All of this though is complicated by the way alloys can have slightly surprising properties, and the
way that something with a low % of magnesium and massive % of Aluminum could be called a "magnesium
alloy" ... which would then be shortened to "magnesium"

Precious Pup <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

It was a clincher, blowup of VN pic follows:

phys.uu.nlbeloki14072003.jpgOpen ↗

If it is a blown clincher were is the tube? I think if it was a clincher you would see tube shards
hanging out somewhere.