Madone 5.9SL bent hanger

"Francesco Devittori" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Yesterday the Dura Ace 7800 chain of a friend snapped while going up a
rather steep hill. The chain pin got stuck in the rear der, pulled it
and bent the (non replacable) derailleur hanger of his Trek Madone 5.9
SL.
The hanger (aluminium, right?) is badly bent (about 45°), and if I'm
not wrong from what I saw the derailleur bolt started "extracting" a
small part of the thread.
The chain had about 4000km, was in very good condition (only used with
good weather and always well lubed) and came with the (new) bike.

Fortunately he was going slow uphill so no crash occurred.

The owner will ask the Trek dealer today, but I'd like to get a second
opinion. What they do in these cases? Is it possible for trek to
replace the dropout?

BTW do Trek come from the factory already assembled or the dealer
assembles them (read: was the chain installed from trek or dealer)?

TIA

Francesco

A friend of mine had the same thing happen on her 5000. Took it to the
dealer who took care of frame replacement under warranty.

Francesco Devittori said:

Yesterday the Dura Ace 7800 chain of a friend snapped while going up a
rather steep hill. The chain pin got stuck in the rear der, pulled it
and bent the (non replacable) derailleur hanger of his Trek Madone 5.9
SL.
The hanger (aluminium, right?) is badly bent (about 45°), and if I'm
not wrong from what I saw the derailleur bolt started "extracting" a
small part of the thread.
The chain had about 4000km, was in very good condition (only used with
good weather and always well lubed) and came with the (new) bike.

Fortunately he was going slow uphill so no crash occurred.

The owner will ask the Trek dealer today, but I'd like to get a second
opinion. What they do in these cases? Is it possible for trek to
replace the dropout?

BTW do Trek come from the factory already assembled or the dealer
assembles them (read: was the chain installed from trek or dealer)?

TIA

Francesco

Most are assembled by clones in WI...what the owner does is have a good
bike shop try to bend it back...if/when it breaks, you have a bike shop
strip it at the owner's expense, ship it back to Trek and they can fix
it...I would look into trying to find who assembled the chain, to see
if maybe Trek(if they did put it together) could pony up some $ to fix
this but I've asked before, why not a replaceable RD hanger on Treks??
Too heavy???

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Most are assembled by clones in WI... [snip]

btw in your experience do the clones in WI use to install 10-speed STIs
very low on the handlebar?
It's the second high-end Trek I see with the levers in that position,
both coming from the largest Trek dealer in the region (but maybe it's
just the wrench there that puts them that way)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Francesco Devittori said:

btw in your experience do the clones in WI use to install 10-speed STIs
very low on the handlebar?

don't know for shimano, but just installed some campagnolo and the
instructions/manual booklet says that the best way to install them is to
align the lower end of the sti with the lower end of the handle bar:
"for the majority of handlebars, the optimal position for the control
unit is obtained by aligning the lower end of the brake lever with the
lower end of the handlebar."
so when you look at your bike from the side, the lower tip of the brake
is at the same level as the bottom side of the handlebar.
maybe the guys at trek are following the same rule.
may also has to do with the shape of the dropouts on the trek?
or they found it was the most efficient spot to install them, in term of
ergonomics when you looks at a racer's position on the bike.

Francesco Devittori said:

Yesterday the Dura Ace 7800 chain of a friend snapped while going up a
rather steep hill. The chain pin got stuck in the rear der, pulled it
and bent the (non replacable) derailleur hanger of his Trek Madone 5.9
SL.
The hanger (aluminium, right?) is badly bent (about 45°), and if I'm
not wrong from what I saw the derailleur bolt started "extracting" a
small part of the thread.
The chain had about 4000km, was in very good condition (only used with
good weather and always well lubed) and came with the (new) bike.

Fortunately he was going slow uphill so no crash occurred.

The owner will ask the Trek dealer today, but I'd like to get a second
opinion. What they do in these cases? Is it possible for trek to
replace the dropout?

BTW do Trek come from the factory already assembled or the dealer
assembles them (read: was the chain installed from trek or dealer)?

TIA

Francesco

Throw it in the dumpster and buy a BMC. Those bikes are so much faster.

Chris

Chris Nelson said:

Throw it in the dumpster and buy a BMC. Those bikes are so much faster.

Chris

Do you live in US?
Ironic, I (and the Trek owner) live in Switzerland, home of BMC :-)

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Most are assembled by clones in WI

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

JT

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Francesco Devittori said:

Chris Nelson said:

Throw it in the dumpster and buy a BMC. Those bikes are so much faster.

Chris

Do you live in US?
Ironic, I (and the Trek owner) live in Switzerland, home of BMC :-)

Yes, I do. Home of the Maillot jaune.

That's hysterical, how did I know? Now you have to buy one. At least
you won't have to ship it around the world to get it fixed. They have
replaceable hangers too.

Chris

In article <[email hidden]>,

Francesco Devittori said:

btw in your experience do the clones in WI use to install 10-speed STIs
very low on the handlebar?
It's the second high-end Trek I see with the levers in that position,
both coming from the largest Trek dealer in the region (but maybe it's
just the wrench there that puts them that way)

Don't know about that, but there seems to be a trend vis STI positions
and bars on road racers. Back in the day I seem to recall that brifters
were generally placed lower on the bar (at the hook bends, where I keep
mine btw), and the standard position of the bar was higher in relation
to seat height.

As bar levels have descended to subterranean depths, brifter positions
have climbed further upward. Check out this setup[1], it looks like
it'd be a stretch shifting or braking while riding in the drops.

Luke

1.
http://tinyurl.com/mlep3

or

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/photos/2006/tech/features/specia
lized_2007_road/Specialized_S-Works_Tarmac_SL_side_view

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Francesco Devittori said:

btw in your experience do the clones in WI use to install 10-speed STIs
very low on the handlebar?
It's the second high-end Trek I see with the levers in that position,
both coming from the largest Trek dealer in the region (but maybe it's
just the wrench there that puts them that way)

Don't know about that, but there seems to be a trend vis STI positions
and bars on road racers. Back in the day I seem to recall that brifters
were generally placed lower on the bar (at the hook bends, where I keep
mine btw), and the standard position of the bar was higher in relation
to seat height.

As bar levels have descended to subterranean depths, brifter positions
have climbed further upward. Check out this setup[1], it looks like
it'd be a stretch shifting or braking while riding in the drops.

Luke

1.
http://tinyurl.com/mlep3

or

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/photos/2006/tech/features/specia
lized_2007_road/Specialized_S-Works_Tarmac_SL_side_view

Yes, in fact I keep mines high, more "belgian" style, like Levi's setup
but a bit less extreme, and I find them more comfy. It also seems that
10s shimano are designed to be that way to follow the trend.
That's why I'm a bit surprised to see all these Trek (seen another one
today) coming from the shop with the STI very low (brake lever more
than vertical)

Chris Nelson said:

Francesco Devittori said:

Chris Nelson said:

Throw it in the dumpster and buy a BMC. Those bikes are so much faster.

Chris

Do you live in US?
Ironic, I (and the Trek owner) live in Switzerland, home of BMC :-)

Yes, I do. Home of the Maillot jaune.

That's hysterical, how did I know? Now you have to buy one. At least
you won't have to ship it around the world to get it fixed. They have
replaceable hangers too.

Chris

LOL that's funny. Of course I want to buy one, but really everytime I
think about getting a new BMC I ride my oldish pre-Bstay C40 and the
harder I try to find something wrong, the more I realize how perfect it
is to me :-)

btw at the end of the season I may be able to pick up one of phonak's
rigs. I don't know how much $$$ they will ask, but it could be
interesting! (not sure Landis' yellow machine will be there-who cares I
like the black/red ones better!)

Last update: the owner took the bike to the Trek dealer. The guy there
said that the frame is probably shot as the dropout/frame is all
together one piece, no way to replace it.
I expected some [censored] answer like that because I know their level of
competence, so I didn't expect anything reasonable (you know the
typical behaviour "he could afford a bike like that in first place, so
he sure can also afford to replace it" -- unfortunately seems to be
quite common way of thinking in bike businnes around here).
Fortunately he will send the frame to Trek (probably to the country rep
and then to the other side of the Earth) in order to see what they can
do.

Needless to say that the owner is a bit worried as you can imagine...
practically new frame, very nice and expensive...
I just need a short answer (to give him some good news if possible):
what are in your opinion the chances that Trek can fix it without
needing to get a new frame? (Insurance will probably pay the damage, so
it's ok to pay for the work)

Thanks again,

Francesco

Francesco Devittori said:

Chris Nelson said:

Francesco Devittori said:

Chris Nelson wrote:
> Throw it in the dumpster and buy a BMC. Those bikes are so much faster.
>
> Chris

Do you live in US?
Ironic, I (and the Trek owner) live in Switzerland, home of BMC :-)

Yes, I do. Home of the Maillot jaune.

That's hysterical, how did I know? Now you have to buy one. At least
you won't have to ship it around the world to get it fixed. They have
replaceable hangers too.

Chris

LOL that's funny. Of course I want to buy one, but really everytime I
think about getting a new BMC I ride my oldish pre-Bstay C40 and the
harder I try to find something wrong, the more I realize how perfect it
is to me :-)

btw at the end of the season I may be able to pick up one of phonak's
rigs. I don't know how much $$$ they will ask, but it could be
interesting! (not sure Landis' yellow machine will be there-who cares I
like the black/red ones better!)

Ahhh C40, say no more. I'm riding an old steel rig that will likely
live longer than me, so I can't justify a new ride either. Sure would
like to take one of those Phonak rigs out for a spin though.

Lots of Treks here in the USA, too many actually. But anyone I know who
had failures with them were treated well by Trek. Usually they were not
repaired, but rather replaced. Sometimes for free, and sometimes, for a
substantial discount. Most owners were usually happy with that
arrangement since they were getting a newer model.

Chris

Quoted message said:

The owner will ask the Trek dealer today, but I'd like to get a second
opinion. What they do in these cases? Is it possible for trek to
replace the dropout?

I've had two factory repairs done to Trek OCLV frames. One rear hanger
repacement, and one seat stay tube replacement. The aluminum hanger
split across the threaded eye while climbing out of the saddle. Trek
replaced the hanger for about $40 US.

The various frame parts are bonded with thermoplastic cement. As far as
I know all frame components can be replaced. They heat the joints and
pull the dropout out of the tubes and replace it.

If they need to do any repainting after any repair, you're looking at
an additional several hundred dollars. Mine did not require repainting.
I also did not have to pay shipping (the LBS paid shipping as a
gesture, due to another issue), which might be considerable in your
case.

Good luck!

Alan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Francesco Devittori said:

btw in your experience do the clones in WI use to install 10-speed STIs
very low on the handlebar?
It's the second high-end Trek I see with the levers in that position,
both coming from the largest Trek dealer in the region (but maybe it's
just the wrench there that puts them that way)

Don't know about that, but there seems to be a trend vis STI positions
and bars on road racers. Back in the day I seem to recall that brifters
were generally placed lower on the bar (at the hook bends, where I keep
mine btw), and the standard position of the bar was higher in relation
to seat height.

As bar levels have descended to subterranean depths, brifter positions
have climbed further upward. Check out this setup[1], it looks like
it'd be a stretch shifting or braking while riding in the drops.

Luke

1.
http://tinyurl.com/mlep3

or

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/photos/2006/tech/features/specia
lized_2007_road/Specialized_S-Works_Tarmac_SL_side_view

Looks difficult to reach the brake levers from the hooks.

--
Michael Press

Francesco Devittori said:

Last update: the owner took the bike to the Trek dealer. The guy there
said that the frame is probably shot as the dropout/frame is all
together one piece, no way to replace it.
I expected some [censored] answer like that because I know their level of
competence, so I didn't expect anything reasonable (you know the
typical behaviour "he could afford a bike like that in first place, so
he sure can also afford to replace it" -- unfortunately seems to be
quite common way of thinking in bike businnes around here).
Fortunately he will send the frame to Trek (probably to the country rep
and then to the other side of the Earth) in order to see what they can
do.

Needless to say that the owner is a bit worried as you can imagine...
practically new frame, very nice and expensive...
I just need a short answer (to give him some good news if possible):
what are in your opinion the chances that Trek can fix it without
needing to get a new frame? (Insurance will probably pay the damage, so
it's ok to pay for the work)

Alloy dropout/hanger, bent, cannot be reliably straightened. The
dropout/hanger assembly is glued into the stays; the chance of removal
without damaging a stay is slim, so at the very least a repair of the
existing frame would mean replacing the stays, but with the monostay in
the rear, probably would mean the whole rear triangle. Probably just
as pricey as a whole new frame. If it is just the hanger that is
trashed, then in theory one could cut it off and use one of the
derailleurs with an integrated hanger.

But why the consternation? What is Trek's warranty in Europe? In the
US the frame is warranteed for life to the original owner, so if I had
this problem I would expect a new frame, at no cost, from Trek.

- rick

Quoted message said:

Last update: the owner took the bike to the Trek dealer. The guy there
said that the frame is probably shot as the dropout/frame is all
together one piece, no way to replace it.

That answer is way-wrong, and obviously so. It doesn't take a rocket
scientist to look at the dropout and realize it's a separate part of the
frame, easily (by Trek) removed and a new one installed. It's not very
expensive either; the cost of shipping, disassembly and reassembly is far
greater. In the US, Trek charges something like $60 (total, parts & labor)
to replace the dropout.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Francesco Devittori" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Last update: the owner took the bike to the Trek dealer. The guy there
said that the frame is probably shot as the dropout/frame is all
together one piece, no way to replace it.
I expected some [censored] answer like that because I know their level of
competence, so I didn't expect anything reasonable (you know the
typical behaviour "he could afford a bike like that in first place, so
he sure can also afford to replace it" -- unfortunately seems to be
quite common way of thinking in bike businnes around here).
Fortunately he will send the frame to Trek (probably to the country rep
and then to the other side of the Earth) in order to see what they can
do.

Needless to say that the owner is a bit worried as you can imagine...
practically new frame, very nice and expensive...
I just need a short answer (to give him some good news if possible):
what are in your opinion the chances that Trek can fix it without
needing to get a new frame? (Insurance will probably pay the damage, so
it's ok to pay for the work)

Thanks again,

Francesco

On 25 Jul 2006 13:09:08 -0700, "Rick" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Alloy dropout/hanger, bent, cannot be reliably straightened.

That's true for the hanger bent as far as the OP's was. I had a
hanger bent about 10 degrees and straightened it successfully.

I was wary of snapping it off, but as a friend said "The hanger is
useless now anyway, so try it."

JT

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Francesco Devittori said:

Yesterday the Dura Ace 7800 chain of a friend snapped while going up a
rather steep hill. The chain pin got stuck in the rear der, pulled it
and bent the (non replacable) derailleur hanger of his Trek Madone 5.9
SL.
The hanger (aluminium, right?) is badly bent (about 45°), and if I'm
not wrong from what I saw the derailleur bolt started "extracting" a
small part of the thread.
The chain had about 4000km, was in very good condition (only used with
good weather and always well lubed) and came with the (new) bike.

Fortunately he was going slow uphill so no crash occurred.

The owner will ask the Trek dealer today, but I'd like to get a second
opinion. What they do in these cases? Is it possible for trek to
replace the dropout?

BTW do Trek come from the factory already assembled or the dealer
assembles them (read: was the chain installed from trek or dealer)?

TIA

Francesco

Sorry to reply to this old topic, but here are the last updates.
The shop sent the frame to the Trek importer for the country, in a week
it was back in the shop with a brand new dropout (they unglued the old
one and glued in the new one).
Cost: about $70, shipping included. Looks like new.
Not bad at all!

So if someone has the same happen, don't worry too much as Trek seems
to have a very good service even if you live on the other side of the
world :-)

Francesco