Mad solar-powered streetlights on N1

Geoff Pearson said:

This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar powered
street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret University
in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals arrive with bolt
cutters to take away the large lead-acid batteries mounted on the ground,
The following weekend the more athletic neds will be up the poles to
steal/smash the huge solar panels, leaving the way clear for the lamps
themselves to be used for air rifle practice.

Quoted message said:

Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting? It should demand to see
the environmental impact assessment.

Quoted message said:

The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
decent running and cycling path.

Quoted message said:

Last weekend, just half a mile from this spot, I saw an otter on the Esk -
we cannot allow the Esk path to be mutilated like this.

Quoted message said:

Heads must roll - the lights certainly will.

*N*1?

Geoff Pearson said:

This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar powered
street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret University
in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals arrive with bolt
cutters to take away the large lead-acid batteries mounted on the ground,
The following weekend the more athletic neds will be up the poles to
steal/smash the huge solar panels, leaving the way clear for the lamps
themselves to be used for air rifle practice.

Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting? It should demand to see
the environmental impact assessment.

The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
decent running and cycling path.

If the batteries have been nicked, and the solar panels are going, and
the lights will be shot out, surely it's not going to cause much of a
problem.

Geoff Pearson said:

This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar powered
street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret University
in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals arrive with bolt
cutters to take away the large lead-acid batteries mounted on the ground,
The following weekend the more athletic neds will be up the poles to
steal/smash the huge solar panels, leaving the way clear for the lamps
themselves to be used for air rifle practice.

Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting? It should demand to see
the environmental impact assessment.

The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
decent running and cycling path.

Last weekend, just half a mile from this spot, I saw an otter on the Esk -
we cannot allow the Esk path to be mutilated like this.

Heads must roll - the lights certainly will.

Geoff

I can understand your concerns about them being trashed but I don't get
how they will spoil the path? Do they block off part of the path (now
that would be stupid). Is it the council who have added them? They do
sound like the sort of "sustainable" (as long as they are not stolen)
kind of solution they might go for. Is the potential light pollution the
problem?

Tracker (who may understand the problem better if he can find a picture
of the lights :-) )

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar
powered street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret
University in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals
arrive with bolt cutters to take away the large lead-acid batteries
mounted on the ground, The following weekend the more athletic neds will
be up the poles to steal/smash the huge solar panels, leaving the way
clear for the lamps themselves to be used for air rifle practice.

Quoted message said:

Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting? It should demand to
see the environmental impact assessment.

Quoted message said:

The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
decent running and cycling path.

Quoted message said:

Last weekend, just half a mile from this spot, I saw an otter on the
Esk - we cannot allow the Esk path to be mutilated like this.

Quoted message said:

Heads must roll - the lights certainly will.

*N*1?

National Cycle Route Number 1

"Tracker1972" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar
powered street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret
University in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals
arrive with bolt cutters to take away the large lead-acid batteries
mounted on the ground, The following weekend the more athletic neds will
be up the poles to steal/smash the huge solar panels, leaving the way
clear for the lamps themselves to be used for air rifle practice.

Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting? It should demand to
see the environmental impact assessment.

The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
decent running and cycling path.

Last weekend, just half a mile from this spot, I saw an otter on the
Esk - we cannot allow the Esk path to be mutilated like this.

Heads must roll - the lights certainly will.

Geoff

I can understand your concerns about them being trashed but I don't get
how they will spoil the path? Do they block off part of the path (now that
would be stupid). Is it the council who have added them? They do sound
like the sort of "sustainable" (as long as they are not stolen) kind of
solution they might go for. Is the potential light pollution the problem?

Tracker (who may understand the problem better if he can find a picture of
the lights :-) )

I don't want a light every 25 metres on a path which runs through fields
where I can still see the stars.

Geoff Pearson said:

I don't want a light every 25 metres on a path which runs through fields
where I can still see the stars.

I'm amazed you can see more than a handful of the brightest stars
anywhere near Edinburgh.

Tracker1972 said:

Geoff Pearson said:

This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar
powered street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret
University
in Musselburgh to Newcraighall.

'Queen Margaret University'? What next? 'The University of Newcraighall
Kindergarten'? However...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
decent running and cycling path.

Last weekend, just half a mile from this spot, I saw an otter on the Esk
- we cannot allow the Esk path to be mutilated like this.

I can understand your concerns about them being trashed but I don't get
how they will spoil the path? Do they block off part of the path (now
that would be stupid). Is it the council who have added them? They do
sound like the sort of "sustainable" (as long as they are not stolen)
kind of solution they might go for. Is the potential light pollution the
problem?

Tracker (who may understand the problem better if he can find a picture
of the lights :-) )

I see both sides of this, as usual. Light pollution is a major problem. Most
people under fifty have never seen a starry sky (and, indeed, not only have
no idea what they're missing but have no idea that there's something to be
missed). On the roads we're conducting arms races with brighter and
brighter lights which do indeed leave everyone blind. And, no matter
how 'sustainable' these street lights are, they are still not nearly as
sustainable as no lights at all.

On the other hand, people genuinely (and, in our urban areas, reasonably)
fear being attacked in dark, lonely places. Adding lighting will make the
path feel safer at night, so more people may use it; and if more people do
use it, then it will become safer.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; L'etat c'est moi -- Louis XVI
;; I... we... the Government -- Tony Blair

"TheMgt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

I don't want a light every 25 metres on a path which runs through fields
where I can still see the stars.

I'm amazed you can see more than a handful of the brightest stars
anywhere near Edinburgh.

You need to be out and away from street lights more than 20 minutes - by the
time you get to Haddington the sky is full!

Geoff Pearson said:

"TheMgt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

I don't want a light every 25 metres on a path which runs through fields
where I can still see the stars.

I'm amazed you can see more than a handful of the brightest stars
anywhere near Edinburgh.

You need to be out and away from street lights more than 20 minutes - by
the time you get to Haddington the sky is full!

You can see a starry sky from the west coast of the Outer Hebrides if you're
lucky. You'll see fewer than 10% of the visible stars from anywhere in the
central belt.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

Geoff Pearson said:

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar
powered street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret
University in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals
arrive with bolt cutters to take away the large lead-acid batteries
mounted on the ground, The following weekend the more athletic neds will
be up the poles to steal/smash the huge solar panels, leaving the way
clear for the lamps themselves to be used for air rifle practice.
Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting? It should demand to
see the environmental impact assessment.
The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
decent running and cycling path.
Last weekend, just half a mile from this spot, I saw an otter on the
Esk - we cannot allow the Esk path to be mutilated like this.
Heads must roll - the lights certainly will.

*N*1?

National Cycle Route Number 1

I see.

Is there a map of them online anywhere?

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"TheMgt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson wrote:

> I don't want a light every 25 metres on a path which runs through
> fields
> where I can still see the stars.

I'm amazed you can see more than a handful of the brightest stars
anywhere near Edinburgh.

You need to be out and away from street lights more than 20 minutes - by
the time you get to Haddington the sky is full!

You can see a starry sky from the west coast of the Outer Hebrides if
you're
lucky. You'll see fewer than 10% of the visible stars from anywhere in the
central belt.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

I've see the starscape from Unst. East Lothian is a not as good as that but
it is all I have most of the time. I don't want less of it.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tracker1972 said:

Geoff Pearson said:

This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar
powered street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen
Margaret
University
in Musselburgh to Newcraighall.

'Queen Margaret University'? What next? 'The University of Newcraighall
Kindergarten'? However...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
decent running and cycling path.

Last weekend, just half a mile from this spot, I saw an otter on the
Esk
- we cannot allow the Esk path to be mutilated like this.

I can understand your concerns about them being trashed but I don't get
how they will spoil the path? Do they block off part of the path (now
that would be stupid). Is it the council who have added them? They do
sound like the sort of "sustainable" (as long as they are not stolen)
kind of solution they might go for. Is the potential light pollution the
problem?

Tracker (who may understand the problem better if he can find a picture
of the lights :-) )

I see both sides of this, as usual. Light pollution is a major problem.
Most
people under fifty have never seen a starry sky (and, indeed, not only
have
no idea what they're missing but have no idea that there's something to be
missed). On the roads we're conducting arms races with brighter and
brighter lights which do indeed leave everyone blind. And, no matter
how 'sustainable' these street lights are, they are still not nearly as
sustainable as no lights at all.

On the other hand, people genuinely (and, in our urban areas, reasonably)
fear being attacked in dark, lonely places. Adding lighting will make the
path feel safer at night, so more people may use it; and if more people do
use it, then it will become safer.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; L'etat c'est moi -- Louis XVI
;; I... we... the Government -- Tony Blair

I reckon I am the scariest thing on this path most of the time. On a serious
note, there was a murder there some years back but I doubt street lights
would have prevented that.

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:53:18 +0100 someone who may be "Geoff
Pearson" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting?

There is a fashion for lighting cycle paths in the countryside. I'm
not in favour, but many people are including many councils. "Crime"
and "safety" are the claimed reasons.

Quoted message said:

It should demand to see the environmental impact assessment.

It might be worth asking the council for it and observing their
reaction.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Geoff Pearson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar powered
street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret
University in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals
arrive with bolt cutters to take away the large lead-acid batteries
mounted on the ground, The following weekend the more athletic neds will
be up the poles to steal/smash the huge solar panels, leaving the way
clear for the lamps themselves to be used for air rifle practice.

I've over seen the installation of a fair few pieces of solar powered street
furniture. Somewhat surprisingly vandalism / theft is not a problem -
although I work in the South of England and things may be worse in Scotland!

Quoted message said:

Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting? It should demand to
see the environmental impact assessment.

It's the ongoing battle between those who request / demand 24 hour daylight
on the streets and those who would rather we lived with the natural
darkness. At the moment the former are in a significant majority. I'd
imagine it's unlikely that the Council did an EIA but they should have done
some sort of consultation.

Matt

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:48:20 GMT someone who may be "Matt"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I'd
imagine it's unlikely that the Council did an EIA but they should have done
some sort of consultation.

Assuming the path concerned is in Edinburgh, rather than East
Lothian / Midlothian (I am hazy on the border in that area), the
council undoubtedly adopted its usual decide then defend approach.

A "consultation" in Edinburgh is generally an empty exercise in
being seen to do something. If it happens to come up with the answer
officials want all well and good, otherwise it will be ignored.
Party politicians are almost as impotent as the public in Edinburgh.
Their task is just to rubber stamp what officials want to do.

Aside from cycle paths another example is Meadowbank
<http://www.savemeadowbank.org>, which does have a cycling
dimension. There were not many olympic gold medalists in the UK team
at the last summer games. Chris Hoy developed his sport in Edinburgh
due to the velodrome at Meadowbank (which is not exactly to the
highest standard). There are a number of good sporting cyclists
produced in Edinburgh, which is no-doubt why council officials wish
to remove their facilities and turn them into expensive flats. These
officials (and the officials at the Sport Scotland Quango, which the
current government promised to abolish but then refused to do so)
appear to be so deluded that they think people will go through to
Glasgow. I'm sure some top people might (if Edinburgh produces more
top people) but the rest won't and the rest are important in
supporting the top.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

JNugent said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson wrote:

> This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar
> powered street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret
> University in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

*N*1?

National Cycle Route Number 1

I see.

Is there a map of them online anywhere?

Not as such. You can see the National and Regional cycle routes on
the sustrans website - but that is packaged up into areas.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Andy Leighton said:

JNugent said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>
>> This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar
>> powered street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret
>> University in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> *N*1?
National Cycle Route Number 1

I see.

Is there a map of them online anywhere?

Not as such. You can see the National and Regional cycle routes on
the sustrans website - but that is packaged up into areas.

OK, thanks.

JNugent said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson wrote:

> This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar
> powered street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret
> University in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals
> arrive with bolt cutters to take away the large lead-acid batteries
> mounted on the ground, The following weekend the more athletic neds will
> be up the poles to steal/smash the huge solar panels, leaving the way
> clear for the lamps themselves to be used for air rifle practice.
> Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
> quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting? It should demand to
> see the environmental impact assessment.
> The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
> decent running and cycling path.
> Last weekend, just half a mile from this spot, I saw an otter on the
> Esk - we cannot allow the Esk path to be mutilated like this.
> Heads must roll - the lights certainly will.
*N*1?

National Cycle Route Number 1

I see.

Is there a map of them online anywhere?

Yes, a 3.5Mb PDF download.
www.sustrans.org.uk/webfiles/general/sustrans_2008_ncn_map.pdf

N1 goes from Deal to John O'Groats, mostly following the East Coast.
Remarkably, the section through North Kent, East London and
Hertfordshire is almost completely motor traffic free..

Tom Crispin said:

JNugent said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>
>> This weekend they completed the installation of, I guess, 50 solar
>> powered street lights on the part of the N1 that runs from Queen Margaret
>> University in Musselburgh to Newcraighall. Next week end the vandals
>> arrive with bolt cutters to take away the large lead-acid batteries
>> mounted on the ground, The following weekend the more athletic neds will
>> be up the poles to steal/smash the huge solar panels, leaving the way
>> clear for the lamps themselves to be used for air rifle practice.
>> Surely Sustrans should be objecting to this ludicrous waste of cash and
>> quite unnecessary addition to rural street lighting? It should demand to
>> see the environmental impact assessment.
>> The lights were on this morning at 0630 and will now permanently spoil a
>> decent running and cycling path.
>> Last weekend, just half a mile from this spot, I saw an otter on the
>> Esk - we cannot allow the Esk path to be mutilated like this.
>> Heads must roll - the lights certainly will.
> *N*1?
National Cycle Route Number 1

I see.

Is there a map of them online anywhere?

Yes, a 3.5Mb PDF download.
www.sustrans.org.uk/webfiles/general/sustrans_2008_ncn_map.pdf

N1 goes from Deal to John O'Groats, mostly following the East Coast.
Remarkably, the section through North Kent, East London and
Hertfordshire is almost completely motor traffic free..

Many thanks.

The map isn't so detailed that I can follow the route through London,
but I take your word for it!