Machine-built wheels: true and tension?

John Flynn said:

Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned, and
stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If so,
how would the process compare to building from scratch by
hand? Thanks.

It's fine. This is probably the most economical way to get
good wheels. AFAICT, there's really no difference vs.
building from scratch. You can approach it as if only the
lacing has been done, then "build" from there.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

Quoted message said:

Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned,
and stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If
so, how would the process compare to building from
scratch by hand? Thanks.

Quoted message said:

It's fine. This is probably the most economical way to get
good wheels. AFAICT, there's really no difference vs.
building from scratch. You can approach it as if only the
lacing has been done, then "build" from there.

Of course the quality of the components is a high priority,
especially spokes.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by John Flynn
Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned, and
stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If so,
how would the process compare to building from scratch by
hand? Thanks.

~John Flynn Tallahassee, FL

"Can" is quite an opertive word here.
If the spokes, nipples, and rim iterfaces wer properly lubricated in the initial build process; and if quality components and the correct sizes (spoke length and guage) were selected; then yes.
Spoke alignment usually works better when the spokes are not tensioned at the hub end and only lightly tensioned at the nipple end.
So if a machine built wheel has all the component quality and correct spoke lengths and guages, you could use them as a collection of parts to complete a quality hand build. You would likely start by backing off tension and checking/adding lubrication, and then spoke alignment, and then add "layers" of tension while checking true and centering. Finish with tension balancing and stress relieving. ... And as Peter Chishom would add: check/pack bearings with fresh grease + precision adjust the bearings under QR Skewer pre-load.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by John Flynn
Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned, and
stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If so,
how would the process compare to building from scratch by
hand? Thanks.

~John Flynn Tallahassee, FL

Sure! this should be part of the prep of all wheels through a reputable bike store. For unridden wheels, an additional stress relief and final true would make the wheel very close to proper handuilt sets IF quality components were used.

Unfortunately, many factory wheels shipped with complete bikes have not been built with quality spokes. I remember a certain line had wheels that had a very high failure rate. It was the spokes

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:16:28 GMT, daveornee
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Spoke alignment usually works better when the spokes are
not tensioned at the hub end and only lightly tensioned at
the nipple end.

[snip]

Dear Dave,

Am I missing something here?

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel said:

daveornee said:

Spoke alignment usually works better when the spokes are
not tensioned at the hub end and only lightly tensioned
at the nipple end.

Dear Dave,

Am I missing something here?

Carl Fogel

Carl,

I struggled over that sentence, too. I think daveornee meant
that aligning spokes is easily performed at the hub when
there is no spoke tension, and at the spoke nipple when
there is just a little tension.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Terry Morse

BCarl Fogel said:

daveornee said:

Spoke alignment usually works better when the spokes are
not tensioned at the hub end and only lightly tensioned
at the nipple end.

Dear Dave,

Am I missing something here?

Carl Fogel

Carl,

I struggled over that sentence, too. I think daveornee meant
that aligning spokes is easily performed at the hub when
there is no spoke tension, and at the spoke nipple when
there is just a little tension.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗ [/B]

Sorry, didn't mean to cause struggling, but Terry managed to say quite well what I meant. I was talking about the " PROCESS" of spoke alignment, not how the end game, when in final tension.

To Carl: Now that I have my new Harbor Freight vise, maybe I can just stick the wheel in it and make it perfect... joking aside, the vise finally came and is waiting to be mounted on the bench.

daveornee said:

Terry Morse said:

Carl Fogel said:

daveornee wrote:

> Spoke alignment usually works better when the
> spokes are not tensioned at the hub end and only
> lightly tensioned at the nipple end.

Dear Dave,

Am I missing something here?

Carl Fogel

Carl, I struggled over that sentence, too. I think
daveornee meant that aligning spokes is easily
performed at the hub when there is no spoke tension,
and at the spoke nipple when there is just a little
tension.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA
http://bike.terrymorse.com/" rel="ugc nofollow noopener">bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

Sorry, didn't mean to cause struggling, but Terry managed
to say quite well what I meant. I was talking about the "
PROCESS" of spoke alignment, not how the end game, when in
final tension.

To Carl: Now that I have my new Harbor Freight vise, maybe
I can just stick the wheel in it and make it perfect...
joking aside, the vise finally came and is waiting to be
mounted on the bench.

Dear Terry and Dave,

Aha! It looks as if I need to read more slowly and sensibly.
You were saying that you can align the spokes at the hub
most easily when there's no tension; aligning them at the
rim is easier with a little tension.

(RIght? I got lost, read things wrong, and was wondering how
to put tension on only one end of a spoke.)

As for Dave's vise, glad that it's no longer missing.

I mounted my vise on the most exposed corner of my workbench
to give 90 degrees of access.

I bolted it to the heavy surface boards and then bolted the
heavy boards to the bench frame. Once it was in place, I
sawed off the right-angle wood corner along the rounded edge
of the vise base for a little more access.

It's easy to toss an old bike frame into the jaws and use it
as a stand for fiddling with wheels.

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Matt O'Toole said:

Quoted message said:

Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned,
and stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If
so, how would the process compare to building from
scratch by hand? Thanks.

Quoted message said:

It's fine. This is probably the most economical way to
get good wheels. AFAICT, there's really no difference vs.
building from scratch. You can approach it as if only the
lacing has been done, then "build" from there.

Of course the quality of the components is a high
priority, especially spokes.

This is true, but I haven't had any trouble with spokes for
quite awhile. I've put tens of thousands of miles on a
couple of cheap "take-off" MTB wheels with no trouble, after
retensioning w/ stress relieving. The quality of cheap
spokes may be pretty good these days.

Also, you can buy prebuilt wheels with quality components
at a deep discount from various mail order places, vs.
buying components a la carte. For example, Ultegra hubs,
Open Pro rims, and 14/15 DT spokes w/ brass nipples for
well under $200. A set like this from a good wheelbuilder
would be over $300.

Matt O.

jflynn-<< Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued,
tensioned, and stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built
specs? If so, how would the process compare to building from
scratch by hand? >><BR><BR>

Sure, just a test of the tension and go from there. 99.9%+
are undertensioned so just start by making them round, true,
dished, tensioned, stress relieved. We get a few $20 wheels
from j/b. We make them happy and they work well.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

Aha! It looks as if I need to read more slowly and
sensibly.

I had the same problem with the original sentence.

Quoted message said:

I ... was wondering how to put tension on only one end of
a spoke.)

I was wondering the same thing until Terry cleared it up.

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu