Machine-built wheels: true and tension?

John Flynn said:

Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned, and
stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If so, how would the
process compare to building from scratch by hand? Thanks.

It's fine. This is probably the most economical way to get good wheels.
AFAICT, there's really no difference vs. building from scratch. You can
approach it as if only the lacing has been done, then "build" from there.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

Quoted message said:

Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned, and
stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If so, how would
the process compare to building from scratch by hand? Thanks.

Quoted message said:

It's fine. This is probably the most economical way to get good
wheels. AFAICT, there's really no difference vs. building from
scratch. You can approach it as if only the lacing has been done,
then "build" from there.

Of course the quality of the components is a high priority, especially
spokes.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

John Flynn said:

Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned, and stress-
relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If so, how would the process
compare to building from scratch by hand? Thanks.
~John Flynn Tallahassee, FL

"Can" is quite an opertive word here. If the spokes, nipples, and rim
iterfaces wer properly lubricated in the initial build process; and if
quality components and the correct sizes (spoke length and guage) were
selected; then yes. Spoke alignment usually works better when the spokes
are not tensioned at the hub end and only lightly tensioned at the
nipple end. So if a machine built wheel has all the component quality
and correct spoke lengths and guages, you could use them as a collection
of parts to complete a quality hand build. You would likely start by
backing off tension and checking/adding lubrication, and then spoke
alignment, and then add "layers" of tension while checking true and
centering. Finish with tension balancing and stress relieving. ... And
as Peter Chishom would add: check/pack bearings with fresh grease +
precision adjust the bearings under QR Skewer pre-load.

--

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:16:28 GMT, daveornee
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Spoke alignment usually works better when the spokes
are not tensioned at the hub end and only lightly tensioned at the
nipple end.

[snip]

Dear Dave,

Am I missing something here?

Carl Fogel

John Flynn said:

Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned, and stress-
relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If so, how would the process
compare to building from scratch by hand? Thanks.
~John Flynn Tallahassee, FL

Sure! this should be part of the prep of all wheels through a reputable
bike store. For unridden wheels, an additional stress relief and final
true would make the wheel very close to proper handuilt sets IF quality
components were used.

Unfortunately, many factory wheels shipped with complete bikes have not
been built with quality spokes. I remember a certain line had wheels
that had a very high failure rate. It was the spokes

--

Carl Fogel said:

daveornee said:

Spoke alignment usually works better when the spokes
are not tensioned at the hub end and only lightly tensioned at the
nipple end.

Dear Dave,

Am I missing something here?

Carl Fogel

Carl,

I struggled over that sentence, too. I think daveornee meant that
aligning spokes is easily performed at the hub when there is no
spoke tension, and at the spoke nipple when there is just a little
tension.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Terry Morse said:

Carl Fogel said:

daveornee said:

Spoke alignment usually works better when the spokes are not
tensioned at the hub end and only lightly tensioned at the
nipple end.

Dear Dave,

Am I missing something here?

Carl Fogel

Carl,
I struggled over that sentence, too. I think daveornee meant that
aligning spokes is easily performed at the hub when there is no spoke
tension, and at the spoke nipple when there is just a little tension.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA
http://bike.terrymorse.com/http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Sorry, didn't mean to cause struggling, but Terry managed to say quite
well what I meant. I was talking about the " PROCESS" of spoke
alignment, not how the end game, when in final tension.

To Carl: Now that I have my new Harbor Freight vise, maybe I can just
stick the wheel in it and make it perfect... joking aside, the vise
finally came and is waiting to be mounted on the bench.

--

daveornee said:

Terry Morse said:

Carl Fogel said:

daveornee wrote:

> Spoke alignment usually works better when the spokes are not
> tensioned at the hub end and only lightly tensioned at the
> nipple end.

Dear Dave,

Am I missing something here?

Carl Fogel

Carl,
I struggled over that sentence, too. I think daveornee meant that
aligning spokes is easily performed at the hub when there is no spoke
tension, and at the spoke nipple when there is just a little tension.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA
http://bike.terrymorse.com/http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Sorry, didn't mean to cause struggling, but Terry managed to say quite
well what I meant. I was talking about the " PROCESS" of spoke
alignment, not how the end game, when in final tension.

To Carl: Now that I have my new Harbor Freight vise, maybe I can just
stick the wheel in it and make it perfect... joking aside, the vise
finally came and is waiting to be mounted on the bench.

Dear Terry and Dave,

Aha! It looks as if I need to read more slowly and sensibly.
You were saying that you can align the spokes at the hub
most easily when there's no tension; aligning them at the
rim is easier with a little tension.

(RIght? I got lost, read things wrong, and was wondering how
to put tension on only one end of a spoke.)

As for Dave's vise, glad that it's no longer missing.

I mounted my vise on the most exposed corner of my workbench
to give 90 degrees of access.

I bolted it to the heavy surface boards and then bolted the
heavy boards to the bench frame. Once it was in place, I
sawed off the right-angle wood corner along the rounded edge
of the vise base for a little more access.

It's easy to toss an old bike frame into the jaws and use it
as a stand for fiddling with wheels.

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Matt O'Toole said:

Quoted message said:

Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned, and
stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If so, how would
the process compare to building from scratch by hand? Thanks.

Quoted message said:

It's fine. This is probably the most economical way to get good
wheels. AFAICT, there's really no difference vs. building from
scratch. You can approach it as if only the lacing has been done,
then "build" from there.

Of course the quality of the components is a high priority, especially
spokes.

This is true, but I haven't had any trouble with spokes for quite awhile. I've
put tens of thousands of miles on a couple of cheap "take-off" MTB wheels with
no trouble, after retensioning w/ stress relieving. The quality of cheap spokes
may be pretty good these days.

Also, you can buy prebuilt wheels with quality components at a deep discount
from various mail order places, vs. buying components a la carte. For example,
Ultegra hubs, Open Pro rims, and 14/15 DT spokes w/ brass nipples for well under
$200. A set like this from a good wheelbuilder would be over $300.

Matt O.

jflynn-<< Can unridden machine-built wheels be trued, tensioned, and
stress-relieved to "competent" hand-built specs? If so, how would the
process compare to building from scratch by hand? >><BR><BR>

Sure, just a test of the tension and go from there. 99.9%+ are undertensioned
so just start by making them round, true, dished, tensioned, stress relieved.
We get a few $20 wheels from j/b. We make them happy and they work well.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

Aha! It looks as if I need to read more slowly and sensibly.

I had the same problem with the original sentence.

Quoted message said:

I ... was wondering how
to put tension on only one end of a spoke.)

I was wondering the same thing until Terry cleared it up.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu