Lurker requires advice.

timfy said:

Sorry if this is a little off charter, but I need a little advice.

Spot on charter.

Quoted message said:

I am approaching 40 and it has come to my attention that my body is no
longer a temple... more of a brewery actually. I am looking to start cycling
to work, a distance of about 8 miles a day, so not exactly hundreds of miles
a week but hey, it's a start.

It isn't far off. 8 * 10 miles is 80. A gentle spin at weekends and
you'll be putting in a fair bit of mileage. Anyway, it is never too late
or too early to start riding.

Quoted message said:

The journey is 90% cycle path and I have no aspirations to travel off road.
I have set myself a budget of £240 for a new bike and would welcome any
opinions on either of these three. (Note: I have no connection with these
shops)

Quoted message said:

http://www.wheelies.co.uk/bikesNew/bikeDetail.asp?ID=621&supplier=RALEIGH

Raleigh P3000

Quoted message said:

http://www.discountbicycles.co.uk/biz/product.php?xProd=1553&xSec=407

random wierd brand.

Quoted message said:

http://www.bonthronebikes.com/product_details.asp?id=2548

Giant trekking.

Quoted message said:

I am old enough to consider chain guards and rear racks to be a major
selling point, but other than that I am pretty clueless. I have whittled
these three down from hours of surfing and am now at the point where a
little impartial advice would go a long, long way.

All three bikes are well chosen to fit your budget and intended use.
They are all fitted with mudguards and a rear rack, ideal commuting
bikes. The best thing would be to test ride and see which you like.
Giant and Raleigh are both big names and both provide good value bikes
in this range.

Additional points:

At this price range bikes tend to be sold with a 'comfort saddle'. This
is only true for the first half an hour max at which point soft squidgy
saddles become items of torture. Be prepared to try different saddles
(and 'hard' ones as well - you'd be surprised at what the long distance
crew would consider comfortable)

Don't forget to budget for
1) a good lock. If you are commuting to work you can buy a big heavy
lock and leave it at work. This could cost 30 pounds. You may also want
a lighter lock to carry on the bike for 'just popping in to the shop' use.

2) Lights. A good set of 'to be seen by' lights will set you back 20-25
pounds.

3) You have a rack. A pannier or rack pack will make cycling far more
comfortable than a rucksack. Prices vary depending on quality and
features. eBay is a good source of used gear.

4) A good pump. 15 pounds plus for a 'track pump' (two handed, stand on
the floor type) is money well spent.

5) A pair of padded shorts. This will make the riding more comfortable.
If you don't want to be seen in lycra, wear them under tracksuit
bottoms. You can change out of cycling gear into work clothes when you
arrive.

A bike is not free, and is not inexpensive to run. You will need to
budget for maintenance, and can always find new shiny kit, or better
clothing to spend money on. You might also want to keep track of how
much you are saving on your commuting costs so that you can justify to
yourself how much you are spending. My commute is 2 miles, yet my annual
budget averages out at over 100 pounds per year. (this year is more as
various bits need replacing and buying quality is a good long term
investment.)

For a seasoned cyclist, 8 miles would be almost a perfect commute
distance. Long enough to do a nice ride, yet short enough to be able to
do a nice ride twice a day. It may take some building up to if you
haven't ridden a bike for years (once or twice a week to start with,
increasing as the weather and fitness improves).

Be warned - cycling is infectious. The more you do it the better you
will feel, the fitter you will get , the more you will enjoy it.
Before you know it you'll be signing up to do Audax rides of 100 or 200
km for fun - and enjoying them as well ;-)

Do let us know how you get on. We always like to hear how people are
doing, and can provide advice and encouragement as well.

regards

...d

timfy said:

Hi all,

Sorry if this is a little off charter, but I need a little advice.

I am approaching 40 and it has come to my attention that my body is no
longer a temple... more of a brewery actually. I am looking to start cycling
to work, a distance of about 8 miles a day, so not exactly hundreds of miles
a week but hey, it's a start.

The journey is 90% cycle path and I have no aspirations to travel off road.
I have set myself a budget of £240 for a new bike and would welcome any
opinions on either of these three. (Note: I have no connection with these
shops)

http://www.wheelies.co.uk/bikesNew/bikeDetail.asp?ID=621&supplier=RALEIGH

http://www.discountbicycles.co.uk/biz/product.php?xProd=1553&xSec=407

http://www.bonthronebikes.com/product_details.asp?id=2548

They all look like sensible servicable machines that will get you to
and from work in a civilised fashion. My only misgiving is that
they're all very sit-up-and-beg which is going to be discouraging in
headwinds, or later on if your fitness improves to the extent that you
might want to do more than a few miles on a Sunday morning.

Quoted message said:

I am old enough to consider chain guards and rear racks to be a major
selling point, but other than that I am pretty clueless. I have whittled
these three down from hours of surfing and am now at the point where a
little impartial advice would go a long, long way.

Cheers in advance,

Tim

[email hidden]

Following on from David Martin's message. . .

Quoted message said:

timfy wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am approaching 40 and it has come to my attention that my body is no
longer a temple... more of a brewery actually. I am looking to start cycling
to work, a distance of about 8 miles a day, so not exactly hundreds of miles
a week but hey, it's a start.

4) A good pump. 15 pounds plus for a 'track pump' (two handed, stand on
the floor type) is money well spent.

IMHO this is a luxury. You shouldn't need to do much pumping.

Quoted message said:

5) A pair of padded shorts. This will make the riding more comfortable.
If you don't want to be seen in lycra, wear them under tracksuit
bottoms. You can change out of cycling gear into work clothes when you
arrive.

YMMV. No need to think you are certain to be in agony with
saddles/shorts/pants - but you will discover for yourself what works and
what aches/scuffs etc.

Take it a bit at a time. Try to find local advice. A good LBS (= Local
Bike Shop) is a real asset. They can advise on all sorts of things.
You've obviously worked out the basics correctly.
* Lights: LED rear and filament front. Rechargeable batteries and
_correct_ charger.
* Light coloured clothing and some good reflectives (but can be stuck to
rear mudguard for convenience.
* Clip-on panniers are a wonderful invention - Save up as I think you'll
find they are worth it.
* Tougher tyres (see current thread on Schwarbe Marathons) can't
guarantee against punctures but are certainly effective in reducing
unpleasant events.
* TRAINING - At the very least get "Cyclecraft" by John Franklin out of
the library. When people here say "eschew cycle lanes" they do so for a
reason. For example until you /understand/ what the risks are (then you
can make an informed choice at each instance) consider yourself at a big
disadvantage.
* A computer will encourage you to monitor your journey times and you'll
be amazed at how you get better as time goes by. Last month's 'world
record' becomes this month's norm.
* Toe clips are a very cheap way to make cycling easier and 'more
efficient'.
* Don't use ordinary oil on your chain. Proper lubricants are designed
not to pick up crud.

8 miles each way is a good stretch. To begin with you may find it a bit
tough. However your body will soon adjust and you'll be a lot better at
'doing exercise'. 12 miles back from the pub at 1am on a moonlight
summers night when all the people who have gone to bed because there's
nothing on the telly are tucked up in bed is MAGIC.

As somebody who started at 40 I know you'll soon be astonishing people
who can't imagine anyone cycling TEN! miles.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk/wcc.htm Witham Cycling Campaign
www.eminent.demon.co.uk/rides East Anglian Pub cycle rides

Well, the bikes are much of a muchness and sensible for what you want to do.
Mudguards etc. are absolutely essential for a commuting bike.
You may find these saddles uncomfortable. The softer the saddle, the more it
numbs your backside. The most comfortable saddle for me is a leather one,
every time. I think it's because its flexible, not soft. Some people find
gel saddles comfortable. I cannot ride them. I think that this is to do with
the width of the area between ones pelvic bones.
I would get bar extensions on these bikes and have them pointing forwards,
almost flat.

My tips for cycling safely in traffic. (I'm commuting since the age of 7,
and I'm 54. Never been hit.

1. Cycle slowly in heavy traffic. No whizzing in and out.
2. Be very visible. I always wear a yellow belt.
3. Never get inside a big vehicle on a corner.
4. Always pass parked cars by MORE than the width of the open door.
5. The chap pulling out of a side-road does NOT see you unless you make eye
contact.
6. The person overtaking you coming up to a left turn is GOING to pull
across you.

Best of luck.

timfy said:

Hi all,

Sorry if this is a little off charter, but I need a little advice.

I am approaching 40 and it has come to my attention that my body is no
longer a temple... more of a brewery actually. I am looking to start cycling
to work, a distance of about 8 miles a day, so not exactly hundreds of miles
a week but hey, it's a start.

150 miles a month or 1800 miles a year more than most people do. 4 mile
e/w is an excellent commute distance for "normal" people. OK, the
cycling enthusiasts will say it's too short but for the likes of me it's
a 20 minute ride every morning and, however foul the weather, not too
intimidating.

Quoted message said:

The journey is 90% cycle path and I have no aspirations to travel off road.

If it's a pleasant, scenic cyclepath this sounds like a superb commute.
OTOH, if it's a pavement special you might find it easier on the road.

Quoted message said:

I have set myself a budget of £240 for a new bike and would welcome any
opinions on either of these three. (Note: I have no connection with these
shops)

http://www.wheelies.co.uk/bikesNew/bikeDetail.asp?ID=621&supplier=RALEIGH

http://www.discountbicycles.co.uk/biz/product.php?xProd=1553&xSec=407

http://www.bonthronebikes.com/product_details.asp?id=2548

If I were to pick one, I'd probably go for the Trek (is that a dynamo?).

These bikes are fairly similar to the one I bought 8 years ago - and I
wasn't put off. Guards and racks are vital commuter/utility kit IMO and
it's good to see bikes coming with them ready fitted.

Quoted message said:

I am old enough to consider chain guards and rear racks to be a major
selling point, but other than that I am pretty clueless.

A full chainguard will protect the chain but the half-case on these
bikes probably won't do much more than protect your trousers. Saves
carrying bicycle clips.

Quoted message said:

I have whittled
these three down from hours of surfing and am now at the point where a
little impartial advice would go a long, long way.

Cheers in advance,

Tim

gearoidmuar said:

5. The chap pulling out of a side-road does NOT see you unless you make eye
contact.

I think you meant to write:

5. The chap pulling out of a side-road does NOT see you even if you make
eye contact.

Good tips but never assume that simply because eye contact has been
made, that someone is not going to do something stupid!

Jon

timfy said:

I am old enough to consider chain guards and rear racks to be a major
selling point, but other than that I am pretty clueless.

The plastic chainguards aren't worth having. They'll be broken in no time.
Clips or fluorescent ankle bands are better.
--
Michael MacClancy

Jon Senior said:

gearoidmuar said:

5. The chap pulling out of a side-road does NOT see you unless you
make eye contact.

I think you meant to write:

5. The chap pulling out of a side-road does NOT see you even if you
make eye contact.

Good tips but never assume that simply because eye contact has been
made, that someone is not going to do something stupid!

The eye contact thing. Quite often the motorist will take the eye
contact as a signal to pull out in front of the cyclist knowing that
the cyclist has seen him or her and will take evasive action. I've had
more success with avoiding eye contact and any body language that would
indicate I've seen the motorist or have the slightest intention of
altering course or speed. Of course I'm ready to react should they
actually cut me up, but I find it happens much less often than when I
deliberately make eye contact.

--
Dave...

Response to dkahn400:

Quoted message said:

The eye contact thing. Quite often the motorist will take the eye
contact as a signal to pull out in front of the cyclist knowing that
the cyclist has seen him or her and will take evasive action.

I agree; but OTOH I remember a couple of years ago, after driver and I
had made eye contact and *just* avoided collision, hearing the standard
question - "Where did you just appear from?" - an example, I think, of a
classic "he sees, but the signal doesn't quite make it to the perception
bit of the brain" thing - q.v. gorillas in basketball matches, &c. And I
thought I was safe because we'd made eye contact.

These days I tend to look at the front wheels.

--
Mark, UK.

"A cathedral, a wave of a storm, a dancer's leap, never turn out
to be as high as we had hoped."

Mark McNeill said:

Response to dkahn400:

Quoted message said:

The eye contact thing. Quite often the motorist will take the eye
contact as a signal to pull out in front of the cyclist knowing

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the cyclist has seen him or her and will take evasive action.

I agree; but OTOH I remember a couple of years ago, after driver and
I had made eye contact and *just* avoided collision, hearing the
standard question - "Where did you just appear from?" - an example,
I think, of a classic "he sees, but the signal doesn't quite make it
to the perception bit of the brain" thing - q.v. gorillas in
basketball matches, &c. And I thought I was safe because we'd made
eye contact.

These days I tend to look at the front wheels.

I agree with that too. It's another reason why eye contact is not
reliable. Keep your attention on the car but don't look directly at the
driver*. Be ready for him/her to pull across your path.

*Except at night and you're wearing a head torch. In that case a quick
stare at the driver puts the beam right in their eyes. They can't fail
to notice you and are sufficiently disorientated that they generally
hang back.

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

The eye contact thing. Quite often the motorist will take the eye
contact as a signal to pull out in front of the cyclist knowing that
the cyclist has seen him or her and will take evasive action.

I take eye contact as being the /start/ of the negotiation of who is
going to do what next. I don't have a particularly conscious
methodology, but I imagine it's something to do with my facial
expression, which if it's related to my thinking is generally on the
lines of "oh no you bloody well don't, sunshine!". It seems to work...

The thing about looking for eye contact is if you can /see/ that the
driver is not looking at you at all then you know you're probably in for
Escape and Avoidance.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>, timfy

(') said:

Hi all,

Sorry if this is a little off charter, but I need a little advice.

I am approaching 40 and it has come to my attention that my body is no
longer a temple... more of a brewery actually. I am looking to start
cycling to work, a distance of about 8 miles a day, so not exactly
hundreds of miles a week but hey, it's a start.

The journey is 90% cycle path and I have no aspirations to travel off
road. I have set myself a budget of £240 for a new bike and would
welcome any opinions on either of these three. (Note: I have no
connection with these shops)

http://www.wheelies.co.uk/bikesNew/bikeDetail.asp?ID=621&supplier=RALEIGH

Looks not too bad for the money. You might want to change the saddle -
that one looks soft, which will not be comfortable for eight miles a
day. Be aware that although Raleigh used to be an OK brand for bikes,
they're really not these days, so don't assume the quality is OK, Check
that it is. If you're considering this, also consider the Claud Butler
Classic, which is quite similar and which I know is good value for
money. If you're near Edinburgh, Newcastle or Aberdeen, drop into the
Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op and look at their own brands - they do similar
bikes which are very good value for money.

Quoted message said:

http://www.discountbicycles.co.uk/biz/product.php?xProd=1553&xSec=407

This really is a no-name. It's probably mechanically OK.

Quoted message said:

http://www.bonthronebikes.com/product_details.asp?id=2548

I'm not familiar with this model but Giant bikes are usually reliable.
Again, a swap to a harder saddle - that fits _you_ - would probably be
a good thing.

The key things are fit and weight. You'd be best off getting your bike
from your local bike shop, not least because you can get to try before
you buy. If there are two that fit equally well and are equally well
equipped get the lighter - weight really does make a difference.

Of the three you've selected, my guess is that the Giant would be the
best bet, but do check it fits before you pay your money down.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

Peter Clinch said:

I take eye contact as being the /start/ of the negotiation of who
is going to do what next. I don't have a particularly conscious
methodology, but I imagine it's something to do with my facial
expression, which if it's related to my thinking is generally on
the lines of "oh no you bloody well don't, sunshine!". It seems
to work...

The thing about looking for eye contact is if you can /see/ that the
driver is not looking at you at all then you know you're probably in
for Escape and Avoidance.

All true, and in case we're putting timfy off, we ought to mention that
this is more of a problem for cyclists going along at a fair lick than
for unfit beginners. They will find motorists blithely ignoring their
right of way, but at low speeds it's no more than an annoyance because
it's easy to stop in time. It's when you're going relatively fast that
motorists tend to misjudge your speed and stopping distance.

--
Dave...

On 10/2/05 1:44 am, in article [email hidden], "Peter

Fox said:

Quoted message said:

4) A good pump. 15 pounds plus for a 'track pump' (two handed, stand on
the floor type) is money well spent.

IMHO this is a luxury. You shouldn't need to do much pumping.

It isn't having to do 'much' pumping, but given that you *will* need a pump,
you may as well get one that will get tyres decently pumped up with little
effort.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5) A pair of padded shorts. This will make the riding more comfortable.
If you don't want to be seen in lycra, wear them under tracksuit
bottoms. You can change out of cycling gear into work clothes when you
arrive.

YMMV. No need to think you are certain to be in agony with
saddles/shorts/pants - but you will discover for yourself what works and
what aches/scuffs etc.

I misread the original post as 8 miles each way. I agree that 4 miles should
be fine in normal clothes.

...d

David Martin said:

On 10/2/05 1:44 am, in article [email hidden],

"Peter

Quoted message said:

Fox said:

Quoted message said:

4) A good pump. 15 pounds plus for a 'track pump' (two handed,
stand on the floor type) is money well spent.

IMHO this is a luxury. You shouldn't need to do much pumping.

It isn't having to do 'much' pumping, but given that you *will* need
a pump, you may as well get one that will get tyres decently pumped
up with little effort.

I agree with the track pump recommendation. Every home should have one.
Of course you can pump your tyres up with a hand pump, so it's one of
those things that seems like an extravagance until you actually get
one. Then you wonder why you didn't do it sooner. With a track pump it
becomes so easy that you are far more likely to keep your tyres at the
correct pressure rather than waiting until they seem a bit flattish.
You can also keep your car tyres at the correct pressure without having
to use the air line at the garage.

--
Dave...

Peter Fox said:

Following on from David Martin's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

4) A good pump. 15 pounds plus for a 'track pump' (two handed, stand on
the floor type) is money well spent.

IMHO this is a luxury. You shouldn't need to do much pumping.

You don't /need/ one, no, but as I my unicycle demonstrates, I don't
/need/ two wheels or lever operated brakes, but that doesn't mean
they're not worth having!

Pleasurable cycling is much more likely if the tyres are at a good
pressure, and if you have a track pup it becomes pretty much a non-issue
to keep them that way, as opposed to reasonably hard work which it's too
easy to put off.

I agree with Dave, it's money well spent, and £15 isn't /that/ much.
Once people use one they tend to find It's Daft Not To.

Quoted message said:

Take it a bit at a time. Try to find local advice. A good LBS (= Local
Bike Shop) is a real asset. They can advise on all sorts of things.
You've obviously worked out the basics correctly.
* Lights: LED rear and filament front. Rechargeable batteries and
_correct_ charger.

Not necessary with a dynamo. I couldn't be sure, but the Giant in the
list looked like it might have one.

Quoted message said:

* Clip-on panniers are a wonderful invention - Save up as I think you'll
find they are worth it.

To quote yourself back at you, these are a luxury and you don't need
them... but to echo the pump suggestion, they're very much worth having.
But even cheap 'n cheerful panniers from e.g. Argos are IMHO vastly
better for day to day use than a rucksack in many cases if you're just
A-B and won't be moving around much at B on foot once you've arrived.

Quoted message said:

* TRAINING - At the very least get "Cyclecraft" by John Franklin out of
the library.

Yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes.

Quoted message said:

* A computer will encourage you to monitor your journey times and you'll
be amazed at how you get better as time goes by. Last month's 'world
record' becomes this month's norm.

Another thing that is a luxury you don't need. Another way to monitor
journey time is a watch... Computers are handy if you're curious and
you'd be daft not to have one for serious sports training (probably
combined with a HRM) but for A to B riding they're basically a non-issue
(I've never bothered with one, and my bike has a 4 figure price tag).
I'd much rather have a track pump!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 10/2/05 11:38 am, in article [email hidden], "Peter

Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

4) A good pump. 15 pounds plus for a 'track pump' (two handed, stand on
the floor type) is money well spent.

IMHO this is a luxury. You shouldn't need to do much pumping.

You don't /need/ one, no, but as I my unicycle demonstrates, I don't
/need/ two wheels or lever operated brakes, but that doesn't mean
they're not worth having!

Pleasurable cycling is much more likely if the tyres are at a good
pressure, and if you have a track pup it becomes pretty much a non-issue
to keep them that way, as opposed to reasonably hard work which it's too
easy to put off.

I agree with Dave, it's money well spent, and £15 isn't /that/ much.
Once people use one they tend to find It's Daft Not To.

It isn't £15, it is £15 - the cost of a standard pump if you haven't got a
pump.

Which equates to less than a week or two of the money saved commuting by
bike.

...d

Since I have started using a flashing LED as my front light, I have
been frequently amazed at the number of drivers that *give way* to me
at pinch points, etc. - I think it must be a variant on the "startled
rabbit" syndrome, and they just don't know what to do so they sit tight
until it has gone away. Fantastic!

d.

in message <[email hidden]>,

dkahn400 (') said:

David Martin said:

On 10/2/05 1:44 am, in article [email hidden],

"Peter

Quoted message said:

Fox said:

> 4) A good pump. 15 pounds plus for a 'track pump' (two handed,
> stand on the floor type) is money well spent.
>
IMHO this is a luxury. You shouldn't need to do much pumping.

It isn't having to do 'much' pumping, but given that you *will* need
a pump, you may as well get one that will get tyres decently pumped
up with little effort.

I agree with the track pump recommendation. Every home should have
one.

And _don't_ get a poor one. Some of the good ones cost little more. I
now have two in the house - an Axiom which wasn't cheap, and a
Specialized air-tool Sport, which was cheaper. Why did I get the
Specialized? Because the bloody Axiom never bloody worked - the
supposedly universal head never gripped properly on Presta valves and
would often blow off before you hit 110psi. The air-tool head does
work, so far.

I'd have got a Joe Blow if my LBS had stocked them, because they seem to
have a very good rep in these parts.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Due to financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel
has been switched off.