LSR questions...

PC Gameplayer said:

Hi:

I searched in Google groups and didn't find what I was looking for, so
I thought I'd ask the group.

I've been running 2.5 miles(ish) 4 days a week for a few months, and
I've done 2 5Ks this summer with a few more coming up. I'm not fast,
but I'm happy with my times.

I've heard/read about working long slow runs into one's training, but
I'm not sure I understand the purpose. Is it to increase the distance
you can run, or stamina, or both?

It's to build time on legs (TOL) and increase the duration of a run =
accustom your body to the pounding of running, unless you're one of
those that floats above the ground 😉

Quoted message said:

I generally don't keep close tabs
on my miles, but more on the time that I run.

that's the preferred method of many - esp. those of us who don't know
how far we run

I usually run 30

Quoted message said:

minutes per day (see...told ya I was slow),

duration of a run has nothing to do with speed 😉 - it could be fast or
slow, although longer runs tend to be slower than shorter runs. I use
"tend" because the speed of a run will be affected by hills and other
conditions. My long, easy runs are sometimes faster than my hill runs
because of the steepness of hills where I run my hills.

Quoted message said:

and so should I focus on
doing 'x' amount of time for an LSR?

yes - that's exactly what many runners do - and just about all trail
runners, to my knowledge.

And what's a good mark to shoot

Quoted message said:

for--I was guessing about 50% more than what I run right now (i.e., my
LSR would be 45 minutes).

A general rule of thumb is to build no more than 10% a week (or every
other week). As runs get longer, depending on your recovery time which
you'll have to learn yourself, that rate may be more on the order of 5
or 10% every other week. And if you struggled at a particular duration,
don't be afraid to run that duration again.

Quoted message said:

If you can share any answers to my questions, or have any other words
of wisdom, I'd appreciate it. Thanks...

Just remember to build slowly and pay attention to body signals so you
don't overdo things.

With your 4 runs, you might want to include some variety after you get a
little more TOL built up. Suggestions would be
long, that you've already mentioned
hills
fartleks (speed play) where you run some duration or distance a little
harder (but still able to talk if you're using the conversational method
of monitoring effort) then recover, then speed up
"recovery" run, if needed.

You can run the same route or vary the route, including trails.

But above all else: Enjoy! If it's not fun, you're doing something wrong 😉

PS: you might also want to share your goals - whether it's just to have
fun, race, run longer distances, stress relief, weight control, etc. -
and whether you also do other activities (bike, team sports, or whether
from sedentary background) so folks can give more targeted responses.

Dot

Dot gives good advice as usual.

There are a lot of ways to approach this. If you are going to run 4 d/wk,
then I would suggest taking one run and start to lengthen it. Maybe add a
quarter or half mile to the distance (5 or 10 minutes if using time). Once
that run gets to 5 miles, keep it there and add a little to another run
working up the TOL (as Dot labeled it). This is a good start to developing
a base.

Enjoy, listen to your body (as Dot notes).

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PC Gameplayer said:

Hi:

I searched in Google groups and didn't find what I was looking for, so
I thought I'd ask the group.

I've been running 2.5 miles(ish) 4 days a week for a few months, and
I've done 2 5Ks this summer with a few more coming up. I'm not fast,
but I'm happy with my times.

I've heard/read about working long slow runs into one's training, but
I'm not sure I understand the purpose. Is it to increase the distance
you can run, or stamina, or both?

It's to build time on legs (TOL) and increase the duration of a run =
accustom your body to the pounding of running, unless you're one of
those that floats above the ground 😉

Quoted message said:

I generally don't keep close tabs
on my miles, but more on the time that I run.

that's the preferred method of many - esp. those of us who don't know
how far we run

I usually run 30

Quoted message said:

minutes per day (see...told ya I was slow),

duration of a run has nothing to do with speed 😉 - it could be fast or
slow, although longer runs tend to be slower than shorter runs. I use
"tend" because the speed of a run will be affected by hills and other
conditions. My long, easy runs are sometimes faster than my hill runs
because of the steepness of hills where I run my hills.

Quoted message said:

and so should I focus on
doing 'x' amount of time for an LSR?

yes - that's exactly what many runners do - and just about all trail
runners, to my knowledge.

And what's a good mark to shoot

Quoted message said:

for--I was guessing about 50% more than what I run right now (i.e., my
LSR would be 45 minutes).

A general rule of thumb is to build no more than 10% a week (or every
other week). As runs get longer, depending on your recovery time which
you'll have to learn yourself, that rate may be more on the order of 5
or 10% every other week. And if you struggled at a particular duration,
don't be afraid to run that duration again.

Quoted message said:

If you can share any answers to my questions, or have any other words
of wisdom, I'd appreciate it. Thanks...

Just remember to build slowly and pay attention to body signals so you
don't overdo things.

With your 4 runs, you might want to include some variety after you get a
little more TOL built up. Suggestions would be
long, that you've already mentioned
hills
fartleks (speed play) where you run some duration or distance a little
harder (but still able to talk if you're using the conversational method
of monitoring effort) then recover, then speed up
"recovery" run, if needed.

You can run the same route or vary the route, including trails.

But above all else: Enjoy! If it's not fun, you're doing something wrong

😉

Quoted message said:

PS: you might also want to share your goals - whether it's just to have
fun, race, run longer distances, stress relief, weight control, etc. -
and whether you also do other activities (bike, team sports, or whether
from sedentary background) so folks can give more targeted responses.

Dot

In article <[email hidden]>, Sam

Quoted message said:

Dot gives good advice as usual.

There are a lot of ways to approach this. If you are going to run 4 d/wk,
then I would suggest taking one run and start to lengthen it. Maybe add a
quarter or half mile to the distance (5 or 10 minutes if using time). Once
that run gets to 5 miles, keep it there and add a little to another run
working up the TOL (as Dot labeled it). This is a good start to developing
a base.

Enjoy, listen to your body (as Dot notes).

You might want to look up under google LSD Running. LSD short for
"long slow distance." One site with some explanation when I googled:
http://www.leigh.org/running/lsd.html

In the 70's and through the 80's when training beginning runners at the
San Diego Marathon Clinic the idea was to be out for 3 to 4 hours on a
Sunday. So that meant if you could only run 45 minutes or run/ walk
for 30 minutes, you'd be out walking and talking with other members in
training during this "long slow distance" for another 2 to 3.5 hours.

The idea which seemed to work well was that people go use to being out
for a Sunday run or run/walk or walk with a little running from the
start for 3 to 4 hours. Once the time element was no longer an issue,
people gradually became faster and faster within the 3 to 4 hours.

It fractured from the start that one was going to work up to running 3
hours or more.

Just some further folklore to add to Dot and Sam's.

In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Mindful Running:
http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

Ozzie Gontang said:

The idea which seemed to work well was that people go use to being out
for a Sunday run or run/walk or walk with a little running from the
start for 3 to 4 hours. Once the time element was no longer an issue,
people gradually became faster and faster within the 3 to 4 hours.

I agree. I've found I like a variation of this approach more than the
10% rule on trails longer than about 1.3 hr. Sundays always used to be
play day for me, so I'm basically converting my old hiking / skiing
times into running times. When I'm building, I may pick a route that I'm
sure I can't run the entire distance and probably takes, maybe 20-30 min
longer than my prior long runs. Each time I do it, I increase the pct
running or may add distance to the loop as I can run more of it. It's
cut down on the frustrations I had before. It's also made it easier
to deal with patchy snow. Because of my past foot problems, I've been
hesitant to just go out for 3 or more hours, but building in larger
(than 10%) lumps but including walking has worked well for me. It's
providing far more challenging workouts than I used to get.

Dot

Hi Dot:

Thanks so much for the great advice. But the best piece of advice I
found in what you posted was this:

Quoted message said:

But above all else: Enjoy! If it's not fun, you're doing something wrong 😉

PS: you might also want to share your goals - whether it's just to have
fun, race, run longer distances, stress relief, weight control, etc. -
and whether you also do other activities (bike, team sports, or whether
from sedentary background) so folks can give more targeted responses.

For what it's worth, I started running (or started again...I've had an
on-again, off-again love affair with running, but that's a different
story) to help me lose weight and be more fit. I started modifying my
diet about 6 weeks ago and I've lost 12 lbs. I also really enjoy 5K
runs just for the challenge--I'll be happy to break 30 min. finishing
time sometime this year. I'm running a 10K later this year, and I
hope to run a half marathon next year (when I turn 39) and do a
marathon the year I turn 40 ('06).

So, I'm in it for the fun, for the weight loss, and for improving my
times and distance in running. I think you hit the nail on the head
re: TOL, and no, I'm not one of those who floats above the ground when
I run...sadly. (C;

If that will help others give a more targeted response, that's good.
I have pretty ill-formed goals right now...all I know is that I'm
hooked, and I want to run longer and more (but not necessarily
faster).

Thanks again,
Jim

Its all relative.
A "long run" might 150% the length of your average run.
And dont go all out. For some people this six miles an
hour and others nine miles an hour.