Low Carb Cat Food

"Faye" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My Vet ordered Hills Prescription Feline MD for my 12 yr old male cat
last Nov. He was Borderline Diabetic, according to the Vet, and slightly
overweight.
He isn't allowed to eat any canned or other cat food, but can have
meat as long as it's Carb Free. Previously he begged for sweets, and had
some cake or ice cream when I did. He loves oatmeal cookies. No more for
either of us.

This is not a personal attack, but rather a serious question. Why is he not
allowed canned cat food? A cat's natural diet is not low-carb, it is NO
carb (beyond barest traces of pre-digested carbs in his/her prey's
entrails).

['pet' peeve]

The very concept of 'Low-Carb Cat Food' is heartbreakingly sad...a cat (or
dog for that matter) would never, ever, ever, NEVER, hunt down a corn stalk
or a rice paddy in the wild... Many diabetic kitties, when switched to a
wholesome, raw food, (think meat) diet, get a whole new lease on life and
lose the insulin dependency and other problems. Kitties get diabetes for
the same reason people do, eating carbs in a body not meant to deal with
them...

[/'pet peeve]

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

Faye wrote:
:: My Vet ordered Hills Prescription Feline MD for my 12 yr old male
:: cat last Nov. He was Borderline Diabetic, according to the Vet, and
:: slightly overweight.
:: He isn't allowed to eat any canned or other cat food, but can have
:: meat as long as it's Carb Free. Previously he begged for sweets, and
:: had some cake or ice cream when I did. He loves oatmeal cookies. No
:: more for either of us.
:: What I don't understand is why he hasn't lost any weight? I have
:: a 10 yr old female, and fed her in separate place so the boy could
:: not eat her food. Well, it wasn't necessary, 'cause she decided she
:: likes the Low Carb Food and refused to eat her regular Purina. My
:: Vet says it's perfectly alright for both cats to eat the Low Carb
:: Food. They love it! Neither cat has lost any weight, both had
:: gained one half pound each when I took them for check-up today...he
:: is at 13.5 lbs and female is
:: 11.5 lbs.
:: So is it proof that Low Carb doesn't always work for weight loss?
:: Not for cats anyway. The Vet was a little puzzled and asked if I for
:: sure wasn't giving them anything else to eat? It would have been OK
:: if the male lost a little, but he was very concerned that the female
:: would lose weight, which she did not.
:: He said both looked really good, their fur was shiny and no
:: excessive shedding, were more alert and energetic. The female
:: actually hissed at the Vet. He said it was a good hiss. LOL She's
:: 10, and it's first time I ever heard her hiss!
:: This goes to show that Low Carb is beneficial for good health and
:: well-being, even if no weight is lost!
:: Faye

Maybe your vet is wrong about them needing to lose weight. Perhaps they are
just big cats? That is possible, you know. Weight loss does not
necessarily follow from LCing. If one simply enjoys eating, it is possible
(ie, easy) to eat enough to not lose any weight. If these cats feel better
eating LC, perhaps they are happy and just perfer to eat good food. Bottom
line is that this proves little other than that LC is generally benefical
for good health. OTOH, perhaps you are putting too much food in front of
them. Try decreasing the portion sizes slightly over time.

I don't understand why people assume that LCing will always lead to weight
loss. It won't if you don't wish to lose weight. Anyone can choose to eat
enough food to spoil weight loss - it's easy - all that is required is an
enjoyment of eating. But if one decides to lose weight, then LC will make it
easier because one generally won't have to be overly hungry and the use of a
slight amount of willpower will make weight loss possible.

Previously he begged for sweets, and had

Quoted message said:

some cake or ice cream when I did. He loves oatmeal cookies. No more for
either of us.
What I don't understand is why he hasn't lost any weight? >

Are his pants any looser? Sometimes your body readjust its size before
weight loss is apparent.
Of course, he might be sneaking those oatmeal cookies when you're not
around. Cats are so damn sneaky.

Faye said:

My Vet ordered Hills Prescription Feline MD for my 12 yr old male cat
last Nov. He was Borderline Diabetic, according to the Vet, and slightly
overweight.
He isn't allowed to eat any canned or other cat food, but can have
meat as long as it's Carb Free.

That's bizarre. The Hills MD dry and MD canned is higher in carb
than a number of canned foods. The vet who diagnosed mine recommended
Hills (11%) or Iams (7%) canned kitten food for my diabetic cat over
the Hills MD. (diagnosed in January '04, maintains normal bg on diet
without insulin, so far).

Here are lists of catfood composition from a diabetic cat site
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/dryfood.html

I switched to Wellness canned a couple of months later, because
although the found the canned kitten food a treat at first (from their
lives on premium dry), after about a month on each, they started
acting like they didn't want to eat it until they were starving.
Wellness is also lower in carb (2 to 5% for the poultry flavors),
better quality protein and no grain in it. The Wellness also smells
good, not like nasty cat food.

I switched both cats to low carb food, rather than serve different
diets and try to keep them out of each other's bowls. They get
heaping tablespoon of Purina prescription DM (diabetes) dry as
an evening snack. It's also 13% carb. The veterinary assistants
who feed the patients at my new vet said that the cats liked
the Purina diabetic dry a lot better than the Hills diabetic dry.
They both love it, but I don't want to feed them 13% carb as their
main food, and cats stay better hydrated on canned.

At first I was testing my diabetic cat's blood twice a day, but after
a few weeks of normal bgs at home, I reduced to once a week and then
just checking a couple of times a month, while monitoring the water
dish and litter box for diabetic drinking.

--
jamie ([email hidden])

"There's a seeker born every minute."

Penelope Baker said:

The very concept of 'Low-Carb Cat Food' is heartbreakingly sad...a cat (or
dog for that matter) would never, ever, ever, NEVER, hunt down a corn stalk
or a rice paddy in the wild... Many diabetic kitties, when switched to a
wholesome, raw food, (think meat) diet, get a whole new lease on life and
lose the insulin dependency and other problems. Kitties get diabetes for
the same reason people do, eating carbs in a body not meant to deal with
them...

Some cats get Type II diabetes (apparently mine did), but as I
understand it, the majority of diabetic cats become Type I's and
cease to produce sufficient insulin to process blood glucose from
gluconeogenesis of protein on a low-carb (or raw-food) diet.

I'd be very leery of a raw food diet, unless I could buy freshly
slaughtered poultry for them from a reliable source. Just about
every supermarket I've ever shopped at for the last 20 years or so
has been a little questionable in disinfecting meat-cutting surfaces.
Family packs where the meats overlap typically show the discoloration
of anaerobic bacteria on the overlapping surfaces of meat that was
only cut and packaged a few hours before. A proper raw food diet
also requires substantial supplements mixed in the food, as it's not
feasible to feed them a large variety of rodents, insects and birds.

I'm happy with the Wellness canned, which has no grains, no
by-products, smells like people food, and 2 to 5 percent carb.
My cats love it.

--
jamie ([email hidden])

"There's a seeker born every minute."

The food is only available with prescription from the Vet. It's not the
same as Hills MD, it's Prescription Feline MD and cost is $29 per 10 lb
bag.
Both cats love it, which surprised me. They are gettng pretty old, and
this food seems to give them more energy. The male also eats lots of
meat (lo-fat). His BG has been normal, I too have the BG monitor,,,it
costs like hell to take him to Vet everytime to test it. My female cat
is so lazy it's no wonder she loses no weight.
I suppose I was un-educated about LC just to lose weight. This is new
to me also.
Faye

"Yea tho I walk thru the valley of the shadow of Fatdom, I fear
not...'cuz I got a pic of Atkins in my pocket."
LC since 6/1/04 150/143/110

"jamie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I'm happy with the Wellness canned, which has no grains, no
by-products, smells like people food, and 2 to 5 percent carb.
My cats love it.

Sounds like a fine product.

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

Another thing is bizarre. Shortly after my cat was DXed, I contacted
the Purina Co. through their 800 # asking about Lo-Carb or Diabetic cat
food (Hills RX is very expensive). Dec, 2003, they told me they did not
have what I needed....but sent me a massive pack of print-out sheets
listing every single cat food they make (listing of ingredients) and
also the ones made by Friskies. The companies haved merged, is my
understanding.
How are we to determine from ingredient lists how many Carbs, Fat,
Cal, etc? is in there? They sure don't list. I have no clue as to how
much is required for cats, do ya'll know?
Maybe my cats aren't normal... the chance of them eating RAW meat
would be like ME eating it. It has to be cooked. His steak, chick brst,
and pork chop has to be fat-trimmed and cut up in bite-size pieces. He
doesn't eat ground beef. The female refuses to eat meat at all, just the
dry food is all she wants.
I didn't mean to imply that the Vet WANTED them to lose weight. He
told me this Lo Carb feeding plan was similar to Atkins, and was
concerned that too much weight might be lost. He was very surprised that
both cats actually gained. I heard that he and some others working there
are very dedicated to the Atkins Way of Life.
My cats are 10 and 12, my previous Siamese lived to be 18 yrs old. I
had the same Vet for 23 yrs and the Doc is NOT overweight. Neither is
his wife, who is also Vet. I suppose that's proof enough that Atkins
Plan ain't always about weight loss. I'm beginning to get a little
better educated about Atkins and low Carb.
About the oatmeal cookie....no way the cat sneaked any. LOL. There's
none in the house!
Hey, please forgive me for ramblin' on about cats. It's not a cat
group. Sorry.

Faye

"Yea tho I walk thru the valley of the shadow of Fatdom, I fear
not...'cuz I got a pic of Atkins in my pocket."
LC since 6/1/04 150/143/110

My diabetic cat eats DM dry cat food which I get from my Vet. She loves it.
My other cat is not diabetic and eats it too. The diabetic cat no longer need
insulin. She hasn't lost weight - didn't need to, but no more injections!

[email hidden] (Faye) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

My Vet ordered Hills Prescription Feline MD for my 12 yr old male cat
last Nov. He was Borderline Diabetic, according to the Vet, and slightly
overweight.

WHich food is it exactly? From this page

hillspet.comindex.jspOpen ↗

what is the exact name of the food?

Quoted message said:

He isn't allowed to eat any canned or other cat food, but can have
meat as long as it's Carb Free. Previously he begged for sweets, and had
some cake or ice cream when I did. He loves oatmeal cookies. No more for
either of us.

Cats are carnivores. From my limited understanding, you should not be
feeding your cats carbohydrate-rich foods at all (certainly not
oatmeal cookies and definitely NOT sweets - what do you mean by this,
candy?).

Quoted message said:

What I don't understand is why he hasn't lost any weight? I have a 10
yr old female, and fed her in separate place so the boy could not eat
her food. Well, it wasn't necessary, 'cause she decided she likes the
Low Carb Food and refused to eat her regular Purina. My Vet says it's
perfectly alright for both cats to eat the Low Carb Food. They love it!
Neither cat has lost any weight, both had gained one half pound each
when I took them for check-up today...he is at 13.5 lbs and female is
11.5 lbs.
So is it proof that Low Carb doesn't always work for weight loss? Not
for cats anyway. The Vet was a little puzzled and asked if I for sure
wasn't giving them anything else to eat? It would have been OK if the
male lost a little, but he was very concerned that the female would lose
weight, which she did not.
He said both looked really good, their fur was shiny and no excessive
shedding, were more alert and energetic. The female actually hissed at
the Vet. He said it was a good hiss. LOL She's 10, and it's first time I
ever heard her hiss!
This goes to show that Low Carb is beneficial for good health and
well-being, even if no weight is lost!

Well actually, are you sure that the new food you are using is really
"low carb"? Hills dry food (or most any other commercial dry food)
would have a high starch content (25-30% usually, or more), firstly
due to the fact that you need some kind of grain as a base to produce
dry food. If you look at the ingredients on your bag - and I assume
you are feeding dry food because you mention above that he's not
allowed to eat any canned food - you should see primary ingredients
such as gluten meal, corn meal, brewer's rice, etc. And there would
be a percentage listing of how much of the food is carbohydrates (or
if there isn't a listing for carbohydrates, you can estimate by
minusing off the protein + moisture, etc percentages). If you are
feeding a dry food, in the first place, I wouldn't at all say your
cat is eating "low carb" and certainly NOT "no carb". I wouldn't at
all be surprised if your cat gained weight.

The other thing is: well obviously, how often are the cats being fed?
Are they free fed or fed at fixed mealtimes? Are you following the
feeding guidelines according to their activity level? Combine all
these elements to make your diagnosis. It isn't just low-carb=lose
weight , or low-carb=gain weight therefore low-carb doesn't work for
cats.

Quoted message said:

Faye

"Yea tho I walk thru the valley of the shadow of Fatdom, I fear
not...'cuz I got a pic of Atkins in my pocket."
LC since 6/1/04 150/143/110

Brillo, you're trying to be a smart ass. What part of Hills
Prescription Feline MD do you not understand? I'm reading the name right
off the bag. I don't need to go to your [censored] website to ONCE AGAIN
post the name of it.
Well of course cats are carnivores, well duh why do you suppose I
give him MEAT? Do you not understand the meaning of "ISN'T ALLOWED"
"PREVIOUSLY" and "NO MORE"????
And no, I'm not sure the cat food is low-carb, no more than you can
be sure everytime you read a label that claims to be low-carb. Of course
it's always a possibility that my Vet is lying, but what would he stand
to gain?
I was merely trying to gain insight from others more knowledgeable
than myself about Atkins and Low Carb, and discuss the possibility that
Diabetic cats can benefit by following Low Carb eating plan.
The cats bad eating habits have been changed since Nov. 2003. So what
exactly was the basis of your smart ass post? Evidently you don't read
very well.
Faye

"Yea tho I walk thru the valley of the shadow of Fatdom, I fear
not...'cuz I got a pic of Atkins in my pocket."
LC since 6/1/04 150/143/110

All cats are low carb. You have any good cat recipies?

"The Low-Carb Bartender" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:r7TPc.222404$JR4.17838@attbi_s54...

Quoted message said:

Previously he begged for sweets, and had

Quoted message said:

some cake or ice cream when I did. He loves oatmeal cookies. No more for
either of us.
What I don't understand is why he hasn't lost any weight? >

Are his pants any looser? Sometimes your body readjust its size before
weight loss is apparent.
Of course, he might be sneaking those oatmeal cookies when you're not
around. Cats are so damn sneaky.

Brillo, you're trying to be a smart ass. What part of Hills
Prescription Feline MD do you not understand? I'm reading the name
right
off the bag. I don't need to go to your [censored] website to ONCE AGAIN
post the name of it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

its not my [censored] web site. its the web site of the brand that

sells the cat food you are feeding your pet. what part of "Hills
Prescription Feline MD" don't i understand? the part where there isn't
a match for this food as you state it on their web site. i think you
are referring to Hills' "Feline m/d" (and that IS what is on the bag)
which is part of their prescription range. If thats the case the carb
% does appear lower than usual. But who knows since the name of your
bag is different. i notice you did not provide a listing of the
ingredients.

Well of course cats are carnivores, well duh why do you suppose I
give him MEAT? Do you not understand the meaning of "ISN'T ALLOWED"
"PREVIOUSLY" and "NO MORE"????

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

i didn't say you were still doing it. i said you should not be

doing it - pardon my wrong usage of tense. why the hell would you
feed your cat cookies and sweets, at any time, in the past or now?
have you only recently learned cats are carnivores?

Don't get angry at me because your cat is overweight. Don't get
defensive at me because you've just learned you may have harmed him by
feeding him rubbish. I'm not the one who has time to argue but no time
to learn about label reading on pet food.

And no, I'm not sure the cat food is low-carb, no more than you can
be sure everytime you read a label that claims to be low-carb. Of
course
it's always a possibility that my Vet is lying, but what would he
stand
to gain?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yes don't bother to put things together yourself at all. i notice

you didn't bother to clarify your understanding of the ingredients
labelling, feeding patterns or activity level either.

I was merely trying to gain insight from others more knowledgeable
than myself about Atkins and Low Carb, and discuss the possibility
that
Diabetic cats can benefit by following Low Carb eating plan.
The cats bad eating habits have been changed since Nov. 2003. So
what
exactly was the basis of your smart ass post? Evidently you don't read
very well.
Faye

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really. you said "So is it proof that Low Carb doesn't always work

for weight loss? Not for cats anyway." it sounded like you were
suggesting that because your cats gained weight on "low carb cat food"
that it proves low carb doesn't work for cats. why would you even say
that if duh, you *know* that cats are carnivores?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

never mind, whatever.

"Yea tho I walk thru the valley of the shadow of Fatdom, I fear
not...'cuz I got a pic of Atkins in my pocket."
LC since 6/1/04 150/143/110