Low carb and low cholesterol

SCraig said:

My spouse has had type II diabetes for a number of years and has,
consequently, been on a low carb diet. Her cholesterol stays around 110.
I've recently been diagnosed as in a pre-diabetic state and have finally
buckled down to low carbing as well. AND my cholesterol has started
dropping and is now around 150. I'm curious about what kind of studies
have been done on the affect of low carb diets on cholesterol. Since low
carb tends to be somewhat more high fat, logic would suggest that
cholesterol would go up but I expect that my and my spouse's results
aren't
unusual. I expect that the idea that if you eat fat you get high
cholesterol is way too simplistic. Any thoughts or sources?

Craig

There are multiple sites:

http://www.thincs.org/
http://atkins.com/science/index.html
http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/

By the way, "logic would suggest"... above is flawed. Logic doesn't
really suggest that fat, and in particular saturated fat, is bad. It's
the government and its low fat information that suggests that fat is bad.

Supposedly, low cholesterol is actually bad for you:

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/fff8a.htm

I can't find more, but supposedly a total cholesterol below 150 is bad.

--
Bob M
remove ".x" to reply

SCraig said:

My spouse has had type II diabetes for a number of years and has,
consequently, been on a low carb diet. Her cholesterol stays around
110. I've recently been diagnosed as in a pre-diabetic state and have
finally buckled down to low carbing as well. AND my cholesterol has
started dropping and is now around 150. I'm curious about what
kind of studies have been done on the affect of low carb diets on
cholesterol. Since low carb tends to be somewhat more high fat,
logic would suggest that cholesterol would go up but I expect that my
and my spouse's results aren't unusual. I expect that the idea
that if you eat fat you get high cholesterol is way too simplistic.
Any thoughts or sources?

Your results are not unusual. There hasn't been a lot of research done,
either. However, you might start some reading with "The Cholestrol Myths"
by Uffe Ravnskov.

Quoted message said:

Craig

"SCraig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%NpZd.21753

Quoted message said:

Since low
carb tends to be somewhat more high fat, logic would suggest that
cholesterol would go up but I expect that my and my spouse's results
aren't
unusual. I expect that the idea that if you eat fat you get high
cholesterol is way too simplistic. Any thoughts or sources?

You are absolutely right. Eating fat (which is high in cholesterol) makes
your cholestorol high.
Eating fat makes you fat.
Eating carrots makes you orange
Eating strawberries turns you red
Eating too much salad or plant matter can actually transform you into a
plant.

The best way to be a healthy human is to eat humans. You are what you eat,
after all.

Hi,

I'd never heard that low cholesterol is an issue. My wife doesn't have
depression so I guess it's not affecting her. This seems a bit unlikely
somehow. I'm wondering, though, what the experience has been with low
cholesterol and low carbs among the posters in the newsgroup or other
boards. Have you heard of anyone actually developing mental problems while
on a low carb diet?

Craig.

"Bob M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

SCraig said:

My spouse has had type II diabetes for a number of years and has,
consequently, been on a low carb diet. Her cholesterol stays around 110.
I've recently been diagnosed as in a pre-diabetic state and have finally
buckled down to low carbing as well. AND my cholesterol has started
dropping and is now around 150. I'm curious about what kind of studies
have been done on the affect of low carb diets on cholesterol. Since low
carb tends to be somewhat more high fat, logic would suggest that
cholesterol would go up but I expect that my and my spouse's results
aren't
unusual. I expect that the idea that if you eat fat you get high
cholesterol is way too simplistic. Any thoughts or sources?

Craig

There are multiple sites:

http://www.thincs.org/
http://atkins.com/science/index.html
http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/

By the way, "logic would suggest"... above is flawed. Logic doesn't
really suggest that fat, and in particular saturated fat, is bad. It's
the government and its low fat information that suggests that fat is bad.

Supposedly, low cholesterol is actually bad for you:

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/fff8a.htm

I can't find more, but supposedly a total cholesterol below 150 is bad.

--
Bob M
remove ".x" to reply

The few recent studies done have shown that for groups as a whole,
total chol either stays about the
same or goes down slightly on LC. Trig drop substantially, and HDL
levels improve quite
a bit.

SCraig said:

Hi,

I'd never heard that low cholesterol is an issue. My wife doesn't have
depression so I guess it's not affecting her. This seems a bit unlikely
somehow. I'm wondering, though, what the experience has been with low
cholesterol and low carbs among the posters in the newsgroup or other
boards. Have you heard of anyone actually developing mental problems
while
on a low carb diet?

Craig.

No. In fact, that study I cited was the first I saw linking low
cholesterol to mental health. All the other studies link low cholesterol
to early death (and remember, this isn't cause-and-effect; in other words
low cholesterol doesn't necessarily mean early death). I think people on
low carb tend to get more realistic cholesterol values. For instance, my
total cholesterol while on low fat and at the beginning of low carbs was
150 and my HDL was below 40 (bad), and this was regardless of the amount
of exercise I did. After two years on low carb, my TC was about 180 but
my HDL was finally above 40 (in the 50 range). My triglycerides were
down, as was my fasting blood glucose. I have another test in a few
weeks, so we'll see what the results are again.

--
Bob in CT

Perdu has serious mental problems, but it's hard to say if he already had
them before he started the low carb diet.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"SCraig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'd never heard that low cholesterol is an issue. My wife doesn't have
depression so I guess it's not affecting her. This seems a bit unlikely
somehow. I'm wondering, though, what the experience has been with low
cholesterol and low carbs among the posters in the newsgroup or other
boards. Have you heard of anyone actually developing mental problems
while
on a low carb diet?

Craig.

"Bob M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

SCraig said:

My spouse has had type II diabetes for a number of years and has,
consequently, been on a low carb diet. Her cholesterol stays around 110.
I've recently been diagnosed as in a pre-diabetic state and have finally
buckled down to low carbing as well. AND my cholesterol has started
dropping and is now around 150. I'm curious about what kind of studies
have been done on the affect of low carb diets on cholesterol. Since low
carb tends to be somewhat more high fat, logic would suggest that
cholesterol would go up but I expect that my and my spouse's results
aren't
unusual. I expect that the idea that if you eat fat you get high
cholesterol is way too simplistic. Any thoughts or sources?

Craig

There are multiple sites:

http://www.thincs.org/
http://atkins.com/science/index.html
http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/

By the way, "logic would suggest"... above is flawed. Logic doesn't
really suggest that fat, and in particular saturated fat, is bad. It's
the government and its low fat information that suggests that fat is bad.

Supposedly, low cholesterol is actually bad for you:

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/fff8a.htm

I can't find more, but supposedly a total cholesterol below 150 is bad.

--
Bob M
remove ".x" to reply

Me and all my siblings have total cholestrol in the high 200s'.
None of the 5 of us are obese or are unhealthy. Two years of strict
low carbing has not changed my total cholestrol. Still up above 250.

Go figure.

PJ

SCraig said:

My spouse has had type II diabetes for a number of years and has,
consequently, been on a low carb diet. Her cholesterol stays around 110.
I've recently been diagnosed as in a pre-diabetic state and have finally
buckled down to low carbing as well. AND my cholesterol has started
dropping and is now around 150. I'm curious about what kind of studies
have been done on the affect of low carb diets on cholesterol. Since low
carb tends to be somewhat more high fat, logic would suggest that
cholesterol would go up but I expect that my and my spouse's results aren't
unusual. I expect that the idea that if you eat fat you get high
cholesterol is way too simplistic. Any thoughts or sources?

Craig

"Bob M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

SCraig said:

Hi,

I'd never heard that low cholesterol is an issue. My wife doesn't have
depression so I guess it's not affecting her. This seems a bit unlikely
somehow. I'm wondering, though, what the experience has been with low
cholesterol and low carbs among the posters in the newsgroup or other
boards. Have you heard of anyone actually developing mental problems
while
on a low carb diet?

Craig.

No. In fact, that study I cited was the first I saw linking low
cholesterol to mental health. All the other studies link low cholesterol
to early death (and remember, this isn't cause-and-effect; in other words
low cholesterol doesn't necessarily mean early death). I think people on
low carb tend to get more realistic cholesterol values. For instance, my
total cholesterol while on low fat and at the beginning of low carbs was
150 and my HDL was below 40 (bad), and this was regardless of the amount
of exercise I did. After two years on low carb, my TC was about 180 but
my HDL was finally above 40 (in the 50 range). My triglycerides were
down, as was my fasting blood glucose. I have another test in a few
weeks, so we'll see what the results are again.

--
Bob in CT

___________________

Now I'm intrigued. What is the explanation for early death among people
with low cholesterol? How could that be?

My triglycerides, HDL and LDL have all been improving as my cholesterol has
gone down. HDL is now 51 which seems promising. They also test VLDL which
is a mystery to me. It is low and dropping. Don't have any idea what that
means.

Craig

SCraig said:

"Bob M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

SCraig said:

Hi,

I'd never heard that low cholesterol is an issue. My wife doesn't have
depression so I guess it's not affecting her. This seems a bit unlikely
somehow. I'm wondering, though, what the experience has been with low
cholesterol and low carbs among the posters in the newsgroup or other
boards. Have you heard of anyone actually developing mental problems
while
on a low carb diet?

Craig.

No. In fact, that study I cited was the first I saw linking low
cholesterol to mental health. All the other studies link low cholesterol
to early death (and remember, this isn't cause-and-effect; in other words
low cholesterol doesn't necessarily mean early death). I think people on
low carb tend to get more realistic cholesterol values. For instance, my
total cholesterol while on low fat and at the beginning of low carbs was
150 and my HDL was below 40 (bad), and this was regardless of the amount
of exercise I did. After two years on low carb, my TC was about 180 but
my HDL was finally above 40 (in the 50 range). My triglycerides were
down, as was my fasting blood glucose. I have another test in a few
weeks, so we'll see what the results are again.

These studies are hard to find ("low cholesterol" search turns up tons of
ads for statins). Here's one discussion:

http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/heartfailure/a/lowcholHF.htm

I know I've seen more, but I can't find them right now.

--
Bob in CT

SCraig wrote:
:: "Bob M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
:: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 06:48:57 GMT, SCraig <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Hi,
:::
::: I'd never heard that low cholesterol is an issue. My wife doesn't
::: have depression so I guess it's not affecting her. This seems a
::: bit unlikely somehow. I'm wondering, though, what the experience
::: has been with low cholesterol and low carbs among the posters in
::: the newsgroup or other boards. Have you heard of anyone actually
::: developing mental problems while
::: on a low carb diet?
:::
::: Craig.
:::
:::
:: No. In fact, that study I cited was the first I saw linking low
:: cholesterol to mental health. All the other studies link low
:: cholesterol to early death (and remember, this isn't
:: cause-and-effect; in other words low cholesterol doesn't necessarily
:: mean early death). I think people on low carb tend to get more
:: realistic cholesterol values. For instance, my total cholesterol
:: while on low fat and at the beginning of low carbs was 150 and my
:: HDL was below 40 (bad), and this was regardless of the amount
:: of exercise I did. After two years on low carb, my TC was about 180
:: but
:: my HDL was finally above 40 (in the 50 range). My triglycerides were
:: down, as was my fasting blood glucose. I have another test in a few
:: weeks, so we'll see what the results are again.
::
:: --
:: Bob in CT
::
:: ___________________
::
:: Now I'm intrigued. What is the explanation for early death among
:: people with low cholesterol? How could that be?

You do know that your body makes cholesterol, right? If you eat less, it
makes more. If you eat more, it makes less, to some degree. Cholesterol has
a function in the body (protection) and hence if it is low that might not be
a good thing.

::
:: My triglycerides, HDL and LDL have all been improving as my
:: cholesterol has gone down. HDL is now 51 which seems promising.
:: They also test VLDL which is a mystery to me. It is low and
:: dropping. Don't have any idea what that means.

This is good. Have you tried googling for info? Just search on VLDL.

::
::
:: Craig

"SCraig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'd never heard that low cholesterol is an issue. My wife doesn't have
depression so I guess it's not affecting her. This seems a bit unlikely
somehow. I'm wondering, though, what the experience has been with low
cholesterol and low carbs among the posters in the newsgroup or other
boards. Have you heard of anyone actually developing mental problems

while

Quoted message said:

on a low carb diet?

Never in my life has my cholesterol been as high as 150, I have also been
anxious and depressed for decades.

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

You might find this interesting...

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/53/6/1404

It seems that during weightloss, there might be phase of cholesterol
"spike".

Mirek

SCraig said:

My spouse has had type II diabetes for a number of years and has,
consequently, been on a low carb diet. Her cholesterol stays around 110.
I've recently been diagnosed as in a pre-diabetic state and have finally
buckled down to low carbing as well. AND my cholesterol has started
dropping and is now around 150. I'm curious about what kind of studies
have been done on the affect of low carb diets on cholesterol. Since low
carb tends to be somewhat more high fat, logic would suggest that
cholesterol would go up but I expect that my and my spouse's results aren't
unusual. I expect that the idea that if you eat fat you get high
cholesterol is way too simplistic. Any thoughts or sources?

Craig

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060540087/qid=1110934293/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-5657118-8100160?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Atkins Diabetes Revolution : The Groundbreaking Approach to Preventing
and Controlling Type 2 Diabetes
by Robert C. Atkins, Mary C. Vernon, Jacqueline Eberstein
Editorial Reviews
Amazon.com
Two colleagues of the late Dr. Robert Atkins take on the obesity
epidemic's deadly twin: type 2 diabetes. Dr. Mary Vernon and Jacqueline
Eberstein, RN, adapt the carb-cutting, fat-allowing Atkins nutritional
approach as a preemptive strike against this fast-growing killer.
Diabetes--defined here as a condition in which glucose or blood sugar is
above the normal range--is viewed as a preventable problem. "What we
hope we have created in this book is a realistic and practical guide to
wiping out type 2, one person at a time." Since obesity is the major
risk factor for diabetes, they begin with the "fat lie" (i.e., the
belief that fat causes obesity) to voice the Atkins mantra: low fat
means high carbs and high carbs are broken down into sugar. With a
convincing mix of essay/picture testimonials, clinical studies, quizzes,
checklists, and menu planners and recipes, Vernon and Eberstein make the
case for diet and lifestyle changes to alter the metabolism of those at
risk for diabetes. They have done a yeoman's job of translating Atkins's
medical nutrition advice into a step-by-step program. One can quibble
about their missionary zeal or the omnipresent eggs in the breakfast
sample menus. At times, the scientific data are overly detailed or
hidden within a quiz. Thankfully, there is a spot-on summary of the
book's paradigm-busting ideas in the appendix. -- Barbara Mackoff

I haven't read this book, but superficially it appears to relate to the
Atkins use of the low carbohydrate diet in controlling Type 2 Diabetes.

It probably has SOME discussion of prior scientific and clinical studies.

Good luck.
Jim

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:58:08 -0600, jbuch <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I haven't read this book, but superficially it appears to relate to the
Atkins use of the low carbohydrate diet in controlling Type 2 Diabetes.

It probably has SOME discussion of prior scientific and clinical studies.

Good luck.
Jim

I HAVE read this book (got it from my local library). It's very
similar in approach (as we'd expect) to Bernstein's Diabetes Solution.
And yes, it does indeed discuss clinical studies. I probably won't
buy a copy since I already have Bernstein, but it was interesting
reading and worth looking at.

Aramanth

PJx wrote:
|| Me and all my siblings have total cholestrol in the high 200s'.
|| None of the 5 of us are obese or are unhealthy. Two years of strict
|| low carbing has not changed my total cholestrol. Still up above 250.
||
|| Go figure.
||
|| PJ

Unlucky genetics. The same gene that causes "top-posting" syndrome in
unsuspecting victims. <g>

Peter