Looking forward to 2004

Hi Dave

As an infrequent participator on this list (but I lurk a lot), thanks for the greetings. I completed
my Wainwright round with Mellbreak this year and am now enjoying doing them all again and other
Lakeland fells (aren't they all just perfect) with my partner.

My Grandad lived in Heysham (Brentlea Crescent) and I have very happy memories of many childhood
holidays there.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone else too. - Liz [email hidden]
www.lemal.freeserve.co.uk

Dave Brown said:

May I wish all members of this group all the very best for Christmas

& the

Quoted message said:

coming year.

Thank you.

Quoted message said:

Having taken "early retirement" and hopefully reaching the big 60 in

February I

Quoted message said:

have been wondering what to fill some of my time with.

Still a bit younger, but I succeeded in my plan to group all my classes during first school term :
that meant a bit less walking this autumn... but two great walking summers ahead in 2004, a first in
New-Zealand and a second back in our good old Europe. I'm feeling like a child boy opening his
Christmas presents !

Best wishes from France to everybody there for Christmas and New Year.

In article <[email hidden]>, Liz Lemal <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone else too.

A very merry Christmas and Happy New year to everyone. I must get out more in 2004.

Liz - lurk less and write more - thanks for the greetings.
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

Dave Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

May I wish all members of this group all the very best for Christmas & the coming year. Having
taken "early retirement" and hopefully reaching the big 60 in

February I

Quoted message said:

have been wondering what to fill some of my time with. Having spent the best part of the last 40
years wandering about on the

Lakeland

Quoted message said:

Fells I am hoping to complete the Wainwrights once again in 2004,

providing of

Quoted message said:

course the knees will allow. Whatever your ambitions regarding walking or your preferences in
where you walk.......stay safe. Regards,

Dave All Wainwrights completed 74 Walks......763 miles......approx 200,000' of ascent to complete.
At Heysham looking across Morecambe Bay to the Cumbrian Fells

The beginning of my year starts tommorow. at 07:08 on the 22nd December 2003 .....***WINTER***
officialy begins

90 / 284 Winter
91 / 284 Spring
92 / 284 Summer
93 / 284 Autumn

16 all seasons 37 never

2428 miles 962,317' ascent

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dave Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20031221122936.15365.00001441@mb-
m03.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

May I wish all members of this group all the very best for Christmas & the coming year. Having
taken "early retirement" and hopefully reaching the big 60 in

February I

Quoted message said:

have been wondering what to fill some of my time with. Having spent the best part of the last 40
years wandering about on the

Lakeland

Quoted message said:

Fells I am hoping to complete the Wainwrights once again in 2004,

providing of

Quoted message said:

course the knees will allow. Whatever your ambitions regarding walking or your preferences in
where you walk.......stay safe. Regards,

Dave All Wainwrights completed 74 Walks......763 miles......approx 200,000' of ascent to
complete. At Heysham looking across Morecambe Bay to the Cumbrian Fells

The beginning of my year starts tommorow. at 07:08 on the 22nd December 2003 .....***WINTER***
officialy begins

How do you make that out? It was **midwinter's day** yesterday (21st) so winter began about 6.5
weeks ago.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

Following up to Dave Brown

Quoted message said:

May I wish all members of this group all the very best for Christmas & the coming year.

and you sir!

Quoted message said:

Having taken "early retirement" and hopefully reaching the big 60 in February I have been wondering
what to fill some of my time with.

usenet.........
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso Walking-food-photos, Wasdale, Thames,
London etc "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- you can email us@ this site and same for Spain at "fell-fell-Open ↗
walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

In article <[email hidden]>, Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dave Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20031221122936.15365.00001441@mb-
m03.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

May I wish all members of this group all the very best for Christmas & the coming year. Having
taken "early retirement" and hopefully reaching the big 60 in

February I

Quoted message said:

have been wondering what to fill some of my time with. Having spent the best part of the last 40
years wandering about on the

Lakeland

Quoted message said:

Fells I am hoping to complete the Wainwrights once again in 2004,

providing of

Quoted message said:

course the knees will allow. Whatever your ambitions regarding walking or your preferences in
where you walk.......stay safe. Regards,

Dave All Wainwrights completed 74 Walks......763 miles......approx 200,000' of ascent to
complete. At Heysham looking across Morecambe Bay to the Cumbrian Fells

The beginning of my year starts tommorow. at 07:08 on the 22nd December 2003 .....***WINTER***
officialy begins

How do you make that out? It was **midwinter's day** yesterday (21st) so winter began about 6.5
weeks ago.

Oh no it didn't!

We have done this one before:

<groups.google.co.ukgroupsOpen ↗
t&th=9dd38a8231474433&seekm=apmno7%246hj%241%40newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk#link1

Quoted message said:

Must be panto season ;-)

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Dave Brown said:

May I wish all members of this group all the very best for Christmas & the coming year.

I'll jump in here and send my greeting to all.

p-t-cook.freeserve.co.ukchristmas2003a.jpgOpen ↗
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dave Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20031221122936.15365.00001441@mb-
m03.aol.com...
> May I wish all members of this group all the very best for Christmas & the coming year. Having
> taken "early retirement" and hopefully reaching the big 60 in
February I
> have been wondering what to fill some of my time with. Having spent the best part of the last
> 40 years wandering about on the
Lakeland
> Fells I am hoping to complete the Wainwrights once again in 2004,
providing of
> course the knees will allow. Whatever your ambitions regarding walking or your preferences in
> where you walk.......stay safe. Regards,
>
> Dave All Wainwrights completed 74 Walks......763 miles......approx 200,000' of ascent to
> complete. At Heysham looking across Morecambe Bay to the Cumbrian Fells

The beginning of my year starts tommorow. at 07:08 on the 22nd December 2003 .....***WINTER***
officialy begins

How do you make that out? It was **midwinter's day** yesterday (21st) so winter began about 6.5
weeks ago.

Oh no it didn't!

We have done this one before:

<groups.google.co.ukgroupsOpen ↗
t&th=9dd38a8231474433&seekm=apmno7%246hj%241%40newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk#link1

I made my stance in that thread and it's not changed. The seasons are defined by astronomy and
midwinter's day is what it says.

If Dec 21 were the start of winter then it would continue until March 21
- which is ridiculous. Early Dec is far colder than March! The sun is almost non-existent here
in December!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Must be panto season ;-)

Oh no it's not...

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

Thanks Dave, something nice about your sentiments,I do appreciate that. Merry Christmas and a Guid
New Year to all.

KRO

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bernard Hill said:

I made my stance in that thread and it's not changed. The seasons are defined by astronomy and
midwinter's day is what it says.

That would put August in autumn, I reckon.

Starts around Aug 8th, yes.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bernard Hill said:

If Dec 21 were the start of winter then it would continue until March 21 which

is ...

... traditionally known as the first day of spring!

Yes, and quite incorrectly. Obviously it can't be the first day of spring if midsummer's day
is 21 June.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I made my stance in that thread and it's not changed. The seasons are defined by astronomy and
midwinter's day is what it says.

If Dec 21 were the start of winter then it would continue until March 21
- which is ridiculous. Early Dec is far colder than March! The sun is almost non-existent here in
December!

Remember beginning March 2001......Record snowfall in Borders, -20c, 4 to 5 days of power cuts!

Temperature in Britain has little to do with season, as every visitor knows but every inhabitant
forgets... so making topics of conversation!

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The beginning of my year starts tommorow. at 07:08 on the 22nd December

2003

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.....***WINTER*** officialy begins

How do you make that out? It was **midwinter's day** yesterday (21st) so winter began about 6.5
weeks ago.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

So, November 6th is the begining of winter

Of course. I have absolutely no problem with that.

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.........a date evryone knows

There is no date commonly known as "the first day of winter". But if midwinter's day is 21 Dec (as
it is) then the first day is about Nov 6th.

I am totally unable to understand why people do not see this logically and accept the correction.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

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Bernard Hill said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:37:19 +0000, Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> wrote:

>If Dec 21 were the start of winter then it would continue until March 21

which

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is ...

... traditionally known as the first day of spring!

Yes, and quite incorrectly. Obviously it can't be the first day of spring if midsummer's day is
21 June.

There's no 'correct' or 'incorrect' about it: these are the conventions. Summer conventionally
begins on midsummer's day. Weird, isn't it? The convention can't be 'incorrect' - usage rules OK.

Not if it's logically impossible. You cannot say that summer starts on midsummers day and yet
lasts 3 months.

"Summer" is a period of time which means something actual, not metaphorical. So it has a beginning
and an end and a middle day.

Usage which is logically wrong is bad usage and must be corrected.

It's the same as saying "let's push the meeting date backwards" when you mean move it forwards in
time. Such usage should be discouraged.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bernard Hill said:

There is no date commonly known as "the first day of winter". But if midwinter's day is 21 Dec (as
it is) then the first day is about Nov 6th.

I've never heard of 'midwinter's day'.

Quoted message said:

I am totally unable to understand why people do not see this logically and accept the correction.

Because that's not the convention. The convention is that the seasons begin on 21 March, June,
Sept and Dec.

I have never heard that ever. "The 1st day of spring" is the only one I have heard, in reference to
the vernal equinox, which is of course the middle day of spring.

Such usage coincides with "midsummer's day" and "midwinter's day" as the longest and shortest days
(meaning sunshine hours).

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These relate approximately to climate/weather conditions.

No, the seasons are astronomically defined. Weather lags behind the seasons because of the thermal
capacity of (mainly) the sea.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

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Paul Rooney said:

Because that's not the convention. The convention is that the seasons begin on 21 March, June,
Sept and Dec. These relate approximately to climate/weather conditions.

The dates are those of the Equinoxes and Solstices (Septmeber one is 22nd rather than 21st IIRC)
rather than necessarily tuned to climate/weather.

The change points between lengthening or shortening days are on similar days (solstices and
equinoxes are closest and furthest approaches to the Sun as Earth's orbit is an ellipse,

Actually they are not. The perihelion (closest approach) is actually around 3-4 January. The
solstice is the time when the sun stands (Latin sol+stare) still in the sky, ie moves very little
from its noon position day by day.

The earth's orbit is so nearly circular that it makes no appreciable difference to the seasons.

Quoted message said:

daylight is related to the earth's tilt in relation to the sun).

Quoted message said:

Pete.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bernard wrote

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Quoted message said:

If Dec 21 were the start of winter then it would continue until March 21 - which is ridiculous.

Nothing ridiculous about it, it's the modern definition. Well known too.

Says who? Midwinter's day (aka midwinter's night) is the colloquial name for Dec 21 as long as I've
known a term for it!

Quoted message said:

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Early Dec is far colder than March!

Not necessarily. March can be a lot warmer, but it can also be colder. February is statistically
the coldest month of the year round in this part of the world. I've often seen snow in March, but
very rarely in December.

Quoted message said:

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The sun is almost non-existent here in December!

What's the sun got to do with it? It may have been relevant to the Celtic definition of the seasons
(see other post) but the modern definition is different, like it or not.

Stuart said:

Remember beginning March 2001......Record snowfall in Borders, -20c, 4 to 5 days of power cuts!

I remember blizzards in Mid-Wales in April one year, but I can't honestly remember any snowfall
prior to the end of December (I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I just can't remember any specific
instance of being out walking or camping in the snow in South Wales prior to the end of December -
plenty of heavy frosts and low temperatures though).

I remember more snowfalls in November than in March here in the Scottish Borders.

However the seasons as you say are quite irrelevant to the definition of the start of summer. It's
an astronomical term.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

There's no 'correct' or 'incorrect' about it: these are the conventions. Summer conventionally
begins on midsummer's day. Weird, isn't it? The convention can't be 'incorrect' - usage rules OK.

Not if it's logically impossible. You cannot say that summer starts on midsummers day and yet lasts
3 months.

"Summer" is a period of time which means something actual, not metaphorical. So it has a beginning
and an end and a middle day.

Usage which is logically wrong is bad usage and must be corrected.

Quite right - stop calling the first day of summer midsummer day.

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.ukOpen ↗