Look, or Speedplay?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by drewski
actually, Lokstah, this whole Bacardi/Arytl debate began with a statement regarding hotspots caused by Speedplays 😄

Oh.

I see.

Well, I disagree with that suggestion by default, so you can understand my mistake.

😉

Do we need to go over the Speedplay/large-platform factor again?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by lokstah

If a given shoe is theoretically, perfectly stiff, you simply can't blame hotspots on platform size. The issue has to lie elsewhere -- fit, anatomy, the rest of the shoe housing; who knows.

Of course, in the real world, there aren't perfect soles, perfect fits, and perfect pedal interfaces. Platform size, shoe rigidity, and shoe fit work together to prevent discomfort. You've both made the arguments that support the various facets of this fact.

I had to comment since we're in complete agreement. I also agree with the statement made by Bacardi "You could have the stiffest shoes imaginable and still experience hotspots." ......caused by the shoes, since, as you agree, perfectly stiff soles take the pedal out of it completely.

It doesn't really matter. I've observed in many human factors trials that once a suggestion is put in someone's mind, it has a profound effect on their perception, independent of reality. Pro cyclists are certainly no exception.

BTW, my BeBops have very little surface area and I don't get hotspots with my inexpensive Shimanos.

I'd say the insole is a big factor in the hotspot issue as well as just the sole stiffness or platform size. I've got Carnac Eclipse shoes which I recently switched from Look to Speedplay cleats. When I first got the Carnac's, noticed some problems with hotspots under the balls of my feet, with Look cleats. Seemed that the insole was pretty thin and stiff on these shoes. After a couple of hundred miles, the insoles broke in to my foot profile, and all was fine.

When switching to Speedplay cleats recently, which required a USC-3 Speedplay adapter, haven't felt any difference at all in the platform size or hotspot factor.

look keo

new for '05 they look like the spd=sl but have a carbon body plus the new cleat design uses plastic and teflon for easier entry than previous look with the low clearance of shimanos. the cromos weigh 115g a piece and the ti are 95g.

I have ridden with Looks and recently went to Speedplays. Personally, I love them so much better...no messing around. With the Speedplays, they are very easy to engange and disengage, with even a modest twist of the foot. I had problems with my Looks when it came to disengaging. As far as weight goes, I don't have the exact dimensions, but the Speedplays felt lighter and I did not experience the "knob" or "lump" feel as described by some of the critics.

I'd go for the Speedplays myself, any day.

RL

Chesapeake Boy said:

I have ridden Look my entire biking life, but I have been thinking of trying out the Speedplays....

People with experience on BOTH types please give me your impressions...OK throw in Campy's as well.....

Have used original Shimano Look-style (13+ yrs), then SPDs (Mtn version). Loved the double-sided; hated the hot-spots after a 2+ hr ride. Now use Speedplay X2s. Noticed that my R knee does not point perfectly forward (a little outward). Used to ice down all the time w/ the SPDs (result of a strained knee from one of the chutes at Mammoth Mtn back in 2001; knee has never been quite the same since). W/ the X2s, ice required much less frequently.

Without the spring to hold your foot in, mashing tends to be more pronounced on the X2s (when I mash, it feels like my heels are swimming around). A nice steady cadence is 92-108 for me and the X2s are simply wonderful. Easy to get in and out of; no "pedaling on ice" feel.

Advice for X-users: [1] get the "Coffee" caps and use 'em [2] lube either the pedal or the metal spring once a week and [3] carry a small nail/pointy-device as it is possible to get dirt/grit wedged in the between the metal spring and the cleat body whereupon clipping-in will be difficult and a quick look at the cleat won't reveal what is causing the problem (that's where you need the nail to remove the grit).

Best.

Just to toss another log on the "hotspot" fire, earlier this summer I invested in some custom insoles (made for me by a local ski shop) and they've made riding much more enjoyable for me. Now I feel like I'm applying pressure equally over my entire foot, and all "hotspot" sensations are gone.

For the record, I use Sidi Genius 4 Lorica Mega shoes, with Speedplay Zero pedals.

Chesapeake Boy said:

I have ridden Look my entire biking life, but I have been thinking of trying out the Speedplays....

People with experience on BOTH types please give me your impressions...OK throw in Campy's as well.....

I rode looks for about two years and considering the amount of money that I spent on new cleats I could have had a nice night out on the town with my wife.
I've switched to speedplays and love them.
I wonder if I was wearing speedplays the day I clipped my pedal going around a turn and broke my collarbone the extra clearence would have made a difference.
Its speedplay for me

drewski said:

actually speedplays have a lower stack height (center of pedal spindle to sole of shoe) vs. look.

everyone's got their own preferences for feel, though. i use the coffee shop covers to reduce wear on the cleats.

Just as an update... earlier in this thread I mentioned my Speedplays (Zero) were wearing... Well, they actually fractured (the yellow plastic part) so that the retaining circlip would come out! Oops! I bought a new cleat set ($35+ 😠 ) and had a look at the design - it seems pretty flawed to me. Lots of sharp flashes from the molding right at stress raising locations. It's a failure waiting to happen. So my new ones are also on the way out (about 1500 miles) in the same fashion. Next season it's definitely back to Look.

I vote for Shimano SPD-SL followed by Look. Shimano and Look has the same consistent feeling when clicking in but easier to walk quietly with SL. Look cleats also wears out a lot faster in my experience. SL is also lighter and have more cornering clearance. My experience doesn't apply to the new Keo though.

Tried Zeros for 6 months. They're acceptable, but doesn't have the secure stable feeling despite wearing the same pair of shoes. And if you cycle a lot in wet area, take note that they're very sensitive to grime and mud. It doesn't click in consistently once it's dirty. They're very light though.

Background info.
I started with SPD (~2 years), switched to SPD-R because of lighter road shoes (~1 years), then Look because it looks good (~6 months), Speedplay after being swayed by advertisement (3 months), and SPD-SL because Speedplay too sensitive to grime (~1 year).

I love my Bebops bebop.combebop.comOpen ↗

merubeyurubu said:

Just as an update... earlier in this thread I mentioned my Speedplays (Zero) were wearing... Well, they actually fractured (the yellow plastic part) so that the retaining circlip would come out! Oops! I bought a new cleat set ($35+ 😠 ) and had a look at the design - it seems pretty flawed to me. Lots of sharp flashes from the molding right at stress raising locations. It's a failure waiting to happen. So my new ones are also on the way out (about 1500 miles) in the same fashion. Next season it's definitely back to Look.

Don't think this cleat cracking problem is the result of normal wear. I'd guess that your shoes don't have a flat mounting plate for the cleats, or perhaps you're missing some shim or adapter required. Either that, or you may be tightening the mounting screws beyond speedplay recommendations.

I've got over 5000 miles on the Zero's now, with no cleat problems at all. I used the Carnac USC-3 adapter, with 4 mounting bolts. The cleats are expensive, but seem to last several times longer than the plastic Look cleats for my useage profile.

dhk said:

Don't think this cleat cracking problem is the result of normal wear. I'd guess that your shoes don't have a flat mounting plate for the cleats, or perhaps you're missing some shim or adapter required. Either that, or you may be tightening the mounting screws beyond speedplay recommendations.

I've got over 5000 miles on the Zero's now, with no cleat problems at all. I used the Carnac USC-3 adapter, with 4 mounting bolts. The cleats are expensive, but seem to last several times longer than the plastic Look cleats for my useage profile.

That's why I prefer Look or Shimano. The design of Speedplay is too sensitive and not robust enough. The mounting surface has to be extremely flat and the torque must be just right otherwise the release and clip-in is not consistent. Shoes will inevitably flex and this must be a design consideration. To me, that's not a good design.

VeryOldMan said:

That's why I prefer Look or Shimano. The design of Speedplay is too sensitive and not robust enough. The mounting surface has to be extremely flat and the torque must be just right otherwise the release and clip-in is not consistent. Shoes will inevitably flex and this must be a design consideration. To me, that's not a good design.

Agree with your assessment. The speedplay cleats need a solid road shoe and a flat mounting base to function. Look cleats, on the other hand, can easily conform to minor flexing or irregularity of the soles without affecting the function.

I like to use both systems. I like the more robust feel when you clip into Looks, and the cleats are less sensitive to dirt and sand than speedplays. On the other hand, speedplays are lighter, and give a wide ranging free-float. To me it comes down to individual preference.

I can't agree with the claim that Speedplay pedals aren't robust or are overly sensitive to what kind of shoe they're being attached to and to torque on the mounting screws.

Two different shims come w/ the pedals, and Speedplay has an extensive list of shoes and compatibility. The cleats are plenty robust. Sure people might complain that they're sensitive to small particles lodging in the spring, but cleat covers solve that issue. The covers are hardly difficult to carry or mount. And as for a tighter torque spec on the mounting screws...well, so what? If a person isn't inclined to work on his gear using specs provided by the manufacturer, then by all means, that person should not buy stuff that requires care. That doesn't mean that a product that has specific torque values or that can't be mounted by tightening screws until the head strips is a bad design.

I've got several thousand miles on this, my first set of Speedplays. Mounting them was easy....on two different sets of shoes: Sidis and Specialized....and the mounting screws have yet to loosen. I've had no problems with dirt fouling the cleat. The float on the Speedplays is so much better than on the Looks I had, as is getting clipped in (not that clipping into Looks is hard). One of my cleats requires a 3/8" shim, and said Speedplay shims allow easy cleat positioning and a more straightforward process than the LeMond Wedges I had when I was using Looks.

alienator said:

I can't agree with the claim that Speedplay pedals aren't robust or are overly sensitive to what kind of shoe they're being attached to and to torque on the mounting screws.

Two different shims come w/ the pedals, and Speedplay has an extensive list of shoes and compatibility. The cleats are plenty robust. Sure people might complain that they're sensitive to small particles lodging in the spring, but cleat covers solve that issue. The covers are hardly difficult to carry or mount. And as for a tighter torque spec on the mounting screws...well, so what? If a person isn't inclined to work on his gear using specs provided by the manufacturer, then by all means, that person should not buy stuff that requires care. That doesn't mean that a product that has specific torque values or that can't be mounted by tightening screws until the head strips is a bad design.

I've got several thousand miles on this, my first set of Speedplays. Mounting them was easy....on two different sets of shoes: Sidis and Specialized....and the mounting screws have yet to loosen. I've had no problems with dirt fouling the cleat. The float on the Speedplays is so much better than on the Looks I had, as is getting clipped in (not that clipping into Looks is hard). One of my cleats requires a 3/8" shim, and said Speedplay shims allow easy cleat positioning and a more straightforward process than the LeMond Wedges I had when I was using Looks.

I like my speedplays too, despite finding them more sensitive to the sand/dirt and mounting issues. As you know, with speedplays you're walking on the moving parts of the cleat system, and the "c-clip" has a tight clearance between the metal top and the plastic base. That's got to be a bit more sensitive than looks one piece cleat.

Agree the Coffee Shop Covers take care of the dirt issues, but I find having to use the covers all the time a pain. I've stepped off my bike for a quick nature stop, and had problems clipping in. One wrong step means you make have to spend a minute at the side of the road cleaning the spring clip with a stick.

Concerning mounting screws, as I recall speedplay warns against overtightening the screws since that could cause binding of the c-clip (and difficult clip-in/release operation). Looks need no such warning. The "20 inch-lb max" speedplay torque spec doesn't mean much, since the shoe base you're threading into varies.

Believe speedplay also recommends lubing the cleats occasionally, plus re-greasing the pedals every 2000 miles via the grease ports. These are both pretty easy to do, but my Look system doesn't require this routine maintenance.

Not huge issues here, but it's just where I find speedplays fall short of perfection. I do prefer them to Looks for the ease of clip-in and free float.

I've not tried speedplay, BUT, in spite of all the great reviews, there is 1 problem which led me away from them - (I am told..)walking in the darn thing is no mean feat, and don't forget the little coffee shop covers or else....

Have you considered the new Time RXE pedals. I've just bought a pair, and find them superb. There's plenty of float and adjustment, AND walking is really good.

Evo said:

Look all the way!!!

Has a pair of Exus E12's when I first started with clipless.......no comparison!!

The Shimano SL's Have one big drawback depending on your knees. They have very little float and the float they do have is not smooth at all. I switched from looks 2 months ago and know my knees are in all kinds of pain. I'm going to get either the TIME RXS's or Look Keo's

The best pedals out there now are the Time RSX Tis:

timesportusa.comrxs titan carbon.htmlOpen ↗

wannaride said:

The best pedals out there now are the Time RSX Tis:

timesportusa.comrxs titan carbon.htmlOpen ↗

Only if you don't need float. I gave mine away. Worst pedals I have tried. I know use Speedplay.