Road Cycling · Public discussion

Long (-ish) rides

Started by bartsie · · Last activity · 27 posts · 1,612 views

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Road Cycling
Published
11 October 2011
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13 October 2011
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bartsie
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  1. Most of my races are in the 50-65 mile range and for me it really just depends on how hard of an effort I am putting out and weather conditions. I really focus on taking in a steady amount of calories and fluids leading up to the race, which can be somewhat difficult if the race falls at an odd time (10-noon seems to be difficult for me). I have done plenty of races on nothing more than a good steady intake of calories and fluids prior and 2 water bottles during and finished quite well, others I have to take a shot or 2 of gel (I always at least have a squeeze bottle with 2-3 shots). I would say that the majority of the time I do need at least 1 good shot of gel.

    When I train it really depends on what my goals are, if I have some hard efforts towards the end and/or if the effort is hard the entire time then I usually take a bar or something in addition to 2 bottles of water and again fuel well before training. There are rides that I will intentionally push my body to actively rely on fat storage by not eating during a training ride, I have always felt that this allows my body to be better prepared to utilize all forms of fuel storage during a race event vs. relying on me to constantly fuel it, so I will sometimes go on nothing more than a pre-ride meal. Although these times are rare and those rides are typically less than 50-60 miles, but I have gone that long.

    I did 100 miles not to long ago on breakfast before, took 2 bottles of water and then stopped briefly at 60 miles to fill both bottles with Gator-aid, and grabbed a breakfast cookie, a fig bar, another bar of some sort (I think a Payday), and some peanuts. I ate on the bike from 60-100 and never even opened the peanuts. I was hungry when I got done, but felt fine, and this was a pretty steady tempo the entire time (I think something like a 21-22mph average).

  2. Quoted post said:

    Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

    No, it's not. You can get stronger and not be more efficient. One is a matter of directed force, power, and the other is a measure of losses in the system. Take an engine. Make it twice as big. It'll likely make more power. Will it be more efficient? No. Is it possible to get more efficient and stronger? Yup, but they're not the same. Imagine that.

    I can't imagine myself having a bigger engine only making the one I was given more efficient.

  3. Quoted post said:

    Originally Posted by jhuskey [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

    I am convinced you can train your body to use fuel more efficiently and I am not alone in that theory. Can you do without food and water? No, but everyone is different and some do it better than others.


    I think you misused the phrase "use fuel more efficiently." A better phrase might be "adapt fuel usage to needs." For that one needs to stress the proper systems. That is part of training.

    On the other hand perhaps you are using the phrase properly. A person with a FTP of 400w putting out 150w is almost certainly using a different proportion of fats and sugars than a person with a FTP of 150w putting out 150w. (At least I hope so.) I expect the person with the 400w FTP will have different eating needs while riding than the person with the 150w FTP. That seems to show people can adapt or use fuel more efficiently.

  4. It is very possible that we have now totally confused the OP to the point that he may take up bowling so I will digress at this point and hope he can extract the answer he is looking for. I suspect he will better discover this by his own experience over time.

  5. Quoted post said:

    Originally Posted by An old Guy [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

    I believe the original poster was talking about his first 50 mile ride. 600-700cal/hr is most likely a reasonable estimate of his needs. As you say he could ride all day long without eating (much).

    ---

    But if you need to eat while riding, feel free to do it.

    I didn't say that at all. An "all day" ride requires a boat load of energy and while you can't replace it all while on the bike you can limit your loses, so to speak. One would doubt, given that it was his first 50 mile ride that he'd be riding all day. When you can comfortably ride for 4 to 6 hours then maybe but feeling pooped after a few hours doesn't lend itself to riding all day despite the amount of food/drink consumed.

    You need to factor in:

    Energy required for riding.
    Energy required for recovery.
    Energy required for things that seem rather trivial within this thread - respiratory function, brain function, other muscle function (besides those in the legs/hip used on bike) and lots of other fun stuff that's required to keep "the lights on". Running low on carbs usually results on the lights being set on dim - on the bike that'll be bonking (and no, alienator, I don't need the fun adult kind of bonking)

    But it's not rocket science. Leave the junk calories on the supermarket shelves, go ride and just nibble (or drink) enough stuff to meet the requirements of the above.

    You can "make do" and deal with the effects of not eating if you must but be prepared to do it riding with reduced intensity and have to deal with the aftermath when you're done with the ride. A stomach bug during a long mountainous ride in the middle of last year meant that in addition to yacking up the contents of my innards twice, I had to deal with very weak Hammer HEED, at half the recommended strength, and water. If I ate anything I'd start feeling like I'd want to puke again. Not the situation you want to be in when you have 6 hours and 4 high mountain passes left to ride but I wanted to finish and finish I did. Even with slowly sipping on drinks and nibbling on food constantly on the 2 hour drive home I was still 9lbs lighter than I was the morning before. I paid for that effort big time the following week. That's an extreme example of "doing without" but the same principles occour on shorter rides - you ride worse and you recover worse.

    I really don't see why you'd want to not eat/drink properly and purposely put yourself at a disadvantage unless there was a very specific reason for wanting to induce a very significant nutritional (calorific/carbohydrate/protein) deficiency just so you can eventually end up looking like Bradley "sparrow legs" Wiggins.

  6. I don't think you should be trying to compare yourself with others to see if you measure up. Sometimes I stop for about 5 minutes maybe once or twice on a 100 mile ride and sometimes I don't stop at all! Most 50 mile rides I don't stop at all, but on occasion I might. I usually carry 2 water bottles on a 50 mile ride, on longer 100 mile rides I either carry 3 bottles and a 70 oz Camelbak or 2 bottles and plan on stopping for refills. But don't worry so much about whether or not you should stop, just ride. If you're a beginner rider you may stop 2 or 3 times in a 50 mile ride for awhile till you work up to non-stop. Terrain has a lot to do with it too, if you're riding 50 miles of flat ground no big deal to go non-stop, but if the first 25 miles is climbing mountain grades you may want to stop for 5 minutes or so a couple times going up. Your experience level will tell you what you can do and not do, not us! Keep in mind too that if you stop don't stop for more then 15 minutes or your legs will have a heavy feeling for about 20 minutes while the blood gets going again. If you have to stop longer, then might as well make an hour or more to give your body time to rest so the heavy feeling won't be so pronounced when you resume riding, or just ride through the feeling.

  7. Quoted post said:

    Originally Posted by An old Guy [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

    On the other hand perhaps you are using the phrase properly. A person with a FTP of 400w putting out 150w is almost certainly using a different proportion of fats and sugars than a person with a FTP of 150w putting out 150w. (At least I hope so.) I expect the person with the 400w FTP will have different eating needs while riding than the person with the 150w FTP. That seems to show people can adapt or use fuel more efficiently.


    No, that only shows that two people use fuel differently. It certainly shows nothing about adaptation or efficiency. It's basic science.

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