long distance

Quoted message said:

Any advice for cycling long distances? I have tried the constant
eating and drinking. Complex carbs and energy drinks. I heard
something about megavitamin dosing? I am trying to do a 300 km day. I
find if I do 100+km then I feel fine when I finish, but dont seem to
recover and just want to sleep a few hours later. How do those Ride
across america dudes do it?

stew

Dunno how those RAAM dudes do thing, us AUK dudes do 300km rides too
though. Its hard to say how you can change things to make life easier
for you. You eat and drink and feel fine after a 100km ride. Build up
to 300s from your 100, train your recovery systems. Rest plenty
beforehand, start the ride fuelled and hydrated to give your body a
chance to do it. My best advice would be to build up to 300s. AIm for
200s then do say 250 then the 300. Those RAAM dudes actually practice
eating whilst pedalling, I haven't gone to those lenghts so far. 300s
don't take so long that sleep deprivation is a factor - or shouldn't
anyway.

Quoted message said:

Any advice for cycling long distances?

You could do a lot worse than start by reading Simon Doughty's
excellent Long Distance Cyclists Handbook
<url:http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0713668326/qid=1141383516/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-5990808-8515648>
or <url:http://tinyurl.com/opsv4>

(Btw, I was given athe new edition for Christmas by my brother, who
didn't know I already had the previous edition - I'd be willing to part
with my old edition for a small handful of beer tokens. (I would sell
the new one, which is in practically unused condition, so long as you
don't mind having a copy inscribed by my brother.)

Quoted message said:

I am trying to do a 300 km day.

Very do-able - I did my first 300km audax ride last year in a time of
17 hours, having done my first 200km ride less than 12 months
previously. I'm looking forward to doing my first 600km ride this year,
and [he says hopefully] taking part in Paris-Brest-Paris (1200km) next
year.

Talking of Audax, if you haven't joined AUK, you should - heaps of very
well organised rides at distances of 100km and upwards - for your
entrance fee, you are given a route sheet, which includes designated
stops for food (usually either a cafe or a buffet in a village hall,
often with cost of food included in the entrance fee) and all you need
to do is turn up on the right day at the right time and make sure you
follow the route sheet carefully...

Plus if you do an AUK ride, you will meet lots of people with similar
goals to you, and will be able to pick up loads of advice from seasoned
veterans of many thousands of kms experience. AUKs are a very friendly
bunch, being a lot more focused on the social aspects of distance
riding (ie cake stops) than racers.

Look at <url:http://www.audax.uk.net/cal/> to find an event near you.
(If you tell us where you are based, someone in this ng is bound to be
able to recommend a suitable ride for you to enter.)

Quoted message said:

How do those Ride
across america dudes do it?

Six months /hard/ training. Plus the fact that people who do RAAM are
pretty damn fit to start with.

d.

davek said:

Quoted message said:

Any advice for cycling long distances?

You could do a lot worse than start by reading Simon Doughty's
excellent Long Distance Cyclists Handbook
<url:http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0713668326/qid=1141383516/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-5990808-8515648>
or <url:http://tinyurl.com/opsv4>

Indeed, its a good book. If you do Audax rides, you *might* meet Chris
Hopkinson, the only Englishman to complete the individual RAAM and you
can ask him yourself.

davek said:

Quoted message said:

Any advice for cycling long distances?

You could do a lot worse than start by reading Simon Doughty's
excellent Long Distance Cyclists Handbook
<url:http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0713668326/qid=1141383516/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-5990808-8515648>
or <url:http://tinyurl.com/opsv4>

(Btw, I was given athe new edition for Christmas by my brother, who
didn't know I already had the previous edition - I'd be willing to part
with my old edition for a small handful of beer tokens. (I would sell
the new one, which is in practically unused condition, so long as you
don't mind having a copy inscribed by my brother.)

Quoted message said:

I am trying to do a 300 km day.

Very do-able - I did my first 300km audax ride last year in a time of
17 hours, having done my first 200km ride less than 12 months
previously. I'm looking forward to doing my first 600km ride this year,
and [he says hopefully] taking part in Paris-Brest-Paris (1200km) next
year.

Talking of Audax, if you haven't joined AUK, you should - heaps of very
well organised rides at distances of 100km and upwards - for your
entrance fee, you are given a route sheet, which includes designated
stops for food (usually either a cafe or a buffet in a village hall,
often with cost of food included in the entrance fee) and all you need
to do is turn up on the right day at the right time and make sure you
follow the route sheet carefully...

Plus if you do an AUK ride, you will meet lots of people with similar
goals to you, and will be able to pick up loads of advice from seasoned
veterans of many thousands of kms experience. AUKs are a very friendly
bunch, being a lot more focused on the social aspects of distance
riding (ie cake stops) than racers.

Look at <url:http://www.audax.uk.net/cal/> to find an event near you.
(If you tell us where you are based, someone in this ng is bound to be
able to recommend a suitable ride for you to enter.)

Quoted message said:

How do those Ride
across america dudes do it?

Six months /hard/ training. Plus the fact that people who do RAAM are
pretty damn fit to start with.

thanks. great advice...I went onto amazon and ordered the book you
recommended (and the lands end john ogroats guide).
i will have a lok at audax (i am oxford based)..i am not very
competitive but would like to give it a go. i am trying to do lands
end john ogroats in a week which is why i want to build up my distance.

i found this great guide on long distance cycling nutrition
http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/what_raam_riders_eat.html but i
dont know where to buy the recommended products (mainly Ensure Plus),
certainly not in my local SBR shop.

my main problem seems to be recovery. when my legs go wobbly and i
cant carry on, no amount of food, drink or rest seems to help. only a
nights sleep. it makes me think i may be missing something like
electrolytes, protein, ...

stew

Quoted message said:

my main problem seems to be recovery. when my legs go wobbly and i
cant carry on, no amount of food, drink or rest seems to help. only a
nights sleep. it makes me think i may be missing something like
electrolytes, protein, ...

stew

Perhaps you are trying too hard too soon. Do you try to do the 100km as
fast as you can ? Your body will take whatever tiime it needs to
recover. Ride slower and it might mean you can ride for longer.

Quoted message said:

Any advice for cycling long distances? I have tried the constant
eating and drinking. Complex carbs and energy drinks. I heard
something about megavitamin dosing? I am trying to do a 300 km day. I
find if I do 100+km then I feel fine when I finish, but dont seem to

How fast are you trying to build up to 300km? How many stops are
you taking on the way round?

Slow and steady is the way both on the ride and in the way the
distances build up over time. Too much too soon will just knacker
you.
--
Arthur Clune

Arthur Clune said:

Quoted message said:

Any advice for cycling long distances? I have tried the constant
eating and drinking. Complex carbs and energy drinks. I heard
something about megavitamin dosing? I am trying to do a 300 km day. I
find if I do 100+km then I feel fine when I finish, but dont seem to

How fast are you trying to build up to 300km? How many stops are
you taking on the way round?

Slow and steady is the way both on the ride and in the way the
distances build up over time. Too much too soon will just knacker
you.

i dont actually get to go out that much. i did 120 km last saturday
(quite steady, not going too fast) without a break but drinkning lots
of lucozade energy drink. i havent been out for a couple of months
before that. i dont really have the time to build up steadily. i was
hoping (probably stupidly) to do a couple of 100km rides, a couple of
200km rides and maybe one of as far as i can do in a day. this, as
preparation for lands end to john ogroats 200km+ each day. i go to the
gym twice a week where i am also just trying to make my legs bigger

Quoted message said:

i will have a lok at audax (i am oxford based).

Ah! Oxford! I'm thinking of entering the 300km ride starting in Oxford
on 1 April. It looks like a great ride, taking the long route over the
hills down to Chepstow and then back via the Severn Bridge and
Marlborough Downs, but with 3900m of climbing it is not one for the
faint of heart (which is why I may not enter it after all).

Quoted message said:

i am not very
competitive but would like to give it a go.

You don't have to be competitive to ride Audax events - they aren't
races, and the time limits are quite generous, about 6hrs 40mins for a
100km ride (based on a minimum average speed of 15km/h, including stops
- and some rides have lower minimums, giving you even more time to get
round).

Quoted message said:

i found this great guide on long distance cycling nutrition
http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/what_raam_riders_eat.html but i
dont know where to buy the recommended products (mainly Ensure Plus),
certainly not in my local SBR shop.

I get Maxim energy formula from my local health food shop. Go energy
bars and gels are widely available from bike shops. I also get Squeezy
gels by the box of 12 from www.wiggle.co.uk.

But such products are really designed for intensive training/racing.
You'll probably be better off having proper breaks, and eating proper
food from nice cafes.

Quoted message said:

my main problem seems to be recovery. when my legs go wobbly and i
cant carry on, no amount of food, drink or rest seems to help.

You're probably pushing yourself too hard. Try taking it a bit slower
and you might find you can carry on a lot longer.

You're probably also not drinking enough - the recommendation is
something like 750ml per hour, though I can never manage to drink this
much myself without needing frequent stops for, ahem, relief.

d.

Quoted message said:

Arthur Clune said:

Quoted message said:

Any advice for cycling long distances?

<snip>

Quoted message said:

i dont actually get to go out that much. i did 120 km last saturday
(quite steady, not going too fast) without a break but drinkning lots
of lucozade energy drink. i havent been out for a couple of months
before that. i dont really have the time to build up steadily. i was
hoping (probably stupidly) to do a couple of 100km rides, a couple of
200km rides and maybe one of as far as i can do in a day. this, as
preparation for lands end to john ogroats 200km+ each day. i go to the
gym twice a week where i am also just trying to make my legs bigger

I've found very sugary stuff (Mars Bars, Lucozade etc) isn't ideal for
me.
Getting a bit tired and hungry, stuff down Lucozade, feel great 10-20
mins later, 20 mins. later again, the "rush" is gone, and I begin to
feel tired and hungry again. It's too fast acting for me.

I believe it's somthing to do with the sudden surge in blood sugar
levels causing an equally sudden surge in insulin levels, which causes
you to crash back to (or below) where you started.

You may find that drinking plain water (or *weak* Orange Squash or
similar), and eating less obviously sugary foods works better.
Bananas, fruit cake and jaffa cakes are my own favourites. Sports
energy bars are OK, small and easy to carry, but I don't find them
terribly palatable.

Another commonly given piece of advice is to eat regularly, whether
hungry or not. One item (banana, piece of cake, energy bar etc) per
hour is a rule of thumb. It's easier to prevent yourself from becoming
hungry and bonking than it is to recover from it once it begins to
happen.

There are others around here far more experienced than me on strategies
for long distance, but this is broadly what I picked up around here,
and it works well for me on rides up to 6 hours or so.

I'd be a bit careful of building up the legs to much either. Most long
distance cyclists you'll meet (racers included) look more like a lean
whippet than Arnie ;-)

hth,

regards,

bookieb.

I really like raw potato. I wonder if it would be good for this kind of
thing?

Quoted message said:

i dont actually get to go out that much. i did 120 km last saturday
(quite steady, not going too fast) without a break but drinkning lots
of lucozade energy drink. i havent been out for a couple of months
before that. i dont really have the time to build up steadily. i was
hoping (probably stupidly) to do a couple of 100km rides, a couple of
200km rides and maybe one of as far as i can do in a day. this, as
preparation for lands end to john ogroats 200km+ each day. i go to the
gym twice a week where i am also just trying to make my legs bigger

You need to train your recovery system to allow you to recover enough
to do consecutive 200s or 300s. By doing 200km only every few weeks
your body is given enough time to recover fully, it takes the time and
doesn't learn to do it faster. As well as increasing the distance you
ride, do back to back rides. Maybe start with 80-100 km on a Saturday
then 50-80 on Sunday.

The best training for cycling is cycling by the way so if something has
to give, let the gym go and ride lots. Don't worry about big legs, big
legs don't ride bikes very well generally. I suspect you are churning a
big gear too, perhaps you are strong enough to do so but it is not the
most efficient way of riding.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any advice for cycling long distances? I have tried the constant
eating and drinking. Complex carbs and energy drinks. I heard
something about megavitamin dosing? I am trying to do a 300 km day. I
find if I do 100+km then I feel fine when I finish, but dont seem to
recover and just want to sleep a few hours later. How do those Ride
across america dudes do it?

Dunno, but I have the email address of one of the guys who was in that
televised attempt. He bought something off me on ebay.

Quoted message said:

before that. i dont really have the time to build up steadily.

There's the problem - standard training rules say you shouldn't
increase the combination of volume and intensity by more than 5% or 10%
per week.

Quoted message said:

i dont actually get to go out that much.

Then that's your problem. Get out more.

Easy said of course. Some suggestions

1) Drop one of the gym sessions and do a short, hard ride
2) On alternate weekends rather than doing one big ride, do
two shorter rides to the same distance total but go much
harder
3) On your long rides, drop the lucozade. If you're only
drinking two bottles in 120km steady you're not drinking
enough anyway. Use either plain water + solid food (bars,
bananas etc) or take along some energy drink powder with
you so you can top up on the way. Some combination of
this might be best for you. Experiment.

Build the distance in your longer rides gradually.
e.g. 100km, 130km, 150km, 100km, 150km, 200km, 100km

I can't strees enought that if you want to do 200km
back to back on the E2E you need to ride regularly.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

i dont actually get to go out that much. i did 120 km last saturday
(quite steady, not going too fast) without a break but drinkning lots
of lucozade energy drink.

You might be better off with Ordinary Food & Drink™

This can be cheaper, better and easy to obtain.
What do you fancy after 50km? 6 cups of tea, a tin of rice pudding, cake?

Try it.

If you have no appetite, you might be too hot.
Get your helmet off, cool down with a wet flannel and drink a pint of water.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

i found this great guide on long distance cycling nutrition
http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/what_raam_riders_eat.html but i
dont know where to buy the recommended products (mainly Ensure Plus),
certainly not in my local SBR shop.

I suspect Ensure is a pharmacy product. Ask a pharmacist.

Quoted message said:

my main problem seems to be recovery. when my legs go wobbly and i
cant carry on, no amount of food, drink or rest seems to help. only a
nights sleep. it makes me think i may be missing something like
electrolytes, protein, ...

Try not to allow yourself to get so low,
Ride slower, eat sooner, attend to any minor discomfort before it
becomes a major pain.

If your progress seems slower than you'd expect, ask yourself:

Am I hungry?
Am I thirsty?
Have I had enough salt?
Have I had enough rest?
Am I too hot?
Am I too cold?
Am I busting for a pee?

Am I going uphill?

Don't allow yourself to get to hot etc, as the stress eats up your
bodily reserves (or causes too much adrenalin and cortisol production)

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

"Bob" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

I really like raw potato. I wonder if it would be good for this kind of
thing?

Eating what you fancy is usually a *good* idea.

Raw potatoes are heavy, pretty pannier-resistant and cheap.

Personally I prefer mine microwaved, but each to his own.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

"LSMike" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

before that. i dont really have the time to build up steadily.

Quoted message said:

There's the problem - standard training rules say you shouldn't
increase the combination of volume and intensity by more than 5% or 10%
per week.

One successful LEL rider had never done any Audax rides before.
Rules are made to be broken.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

One successful LEL rider had never done any Audax rides before.
Rules are made to be broken.

Was he unfit? Clearly not. I think he must have done a lot of cycling
or something with similar specificity to cycling to have succeeded, and
he would have been doing it in some quantity before LEL. Your point is
not relevant I think, especially when the OP is describing his limits,
and his goals are rather longer than that.