London CM

Quoted message said:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm>
Met Police have won their appeal and now the CM will have to give
route details etc.

Er! thinking about it wouldn't this ruling put the June London CM out of
time for the six day rule? Or does this ruling need a start date?
--
del 8-)

del said:

Quoted message said:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm>
Met Police have won their appeal and now the CM will have to give
route details etc.

Er! thinking about it wouldn't this ruling put the June London CM out of
time for the six day rule? Or does this ruling need a start date?

I wonder what would happen if the "organizers" gave a start place,
route and end place and cycled it but the rest of the CM went
somewhere else.

Tim.

Quoted message said:

I wonder what would happen if the "organizers" gave a start place,
route and end place and cycled it but the rest of the CM went
somewhere else.

Plod will probably issue a warning to disperse the "rest of the CM",
with plenty of video/stills taken, and then start wading in with public
order arrests.
--
del 8-)

del said:

Quoted message said:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm>
Met Police have won their appeal and now the CM will have to give
route details etc.

Er! thinking about it wouldn't this ruling put the June London CM out of
time for the six day rule? Or does this ruling need a start date?

I wonder what would happen if the "organisers" gave a start place,
route and end place and cycled it but the rest of the CM went
somewhere else.

Tim.

Quoted message said:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm>
Met Police have won their appeal and now the CM will have to give route
details etc.

However, Lord Justice Leveson said cyclists came together at a fixed point,
but the lead riders chose the course and where the rally finished.

I kind of agreed with this bit:

""A procession cannot, in my judgment, become common or customary if no
route or end point is ever the same," he said."

This bit:
""This decision is bad news for everyone, as it will end up with the police
wasting time arresting innocent cyclists like me, rather than arresting
real criminals.""

But most of all I agree with this bit:
""At Monday's appeal hearing, Lord Justice Wall, the judge who found in
favour of the cyclists, said to rule that Critical Mass fell under the
auspices of the Public Order Act was "potentially oppressive". [...] The
police, in my judgment, know what the cyclists are going to do. They are
going to ride around the Greater London area," he said. "That is a
perfectly lawful activity, and if, for any reason, it ceases to be so, the
police have ample powers to intervene.""

Never been on a CM before, but any crackdown would see me out there.

Mark Thompson said:

Never been on a CM before, but any crackdown would see me out there.

Methinks that anyone stopped should request a stop notice and if one is
not forthcoming take the number of the PC involved and report him/her.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

People must not do things for fun. We are not here for fun.
There is no reference to fun in any Act of Parliament.

On May 21, 5:44 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

del said:

On Monday 21 May 2007 17:21 del, wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm>
Met Police have won their appeal and now the CM will have to give
route details etc.

Quoted message said:

Er! thinking about it wouldn't this ruling put the June London CM out of
time for the six day rule? Or does this ruling need a start date?

I wonder what would happen if the "organizers" gave a start place,
route and end place and cycled it but the rest of the CM went
somewhere else.

Even better if everyone intending to go submits a different route from
the same start point. 2000 route plans will certainly keep them going.

Oh, and if you are planning to meet a group of friends to cycle from
say, waterloo, to say, a pub in westminster, do you need to tell the
police? What if it is just one friend? How many is a procession or
parade.

...d

On 21 May 2007 12:53:12 -0700,

David Martin said:

On May 21, 5:44 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

del said:

On Monday 21 May 2007 17:21 del, wrote:

Quoted message said:

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm>
> Met Police have won their appeal and now the CM will have to give
> route details etc.

Quoted message said:

Er! thinking about it wouldn't this ruling put the June London CM out of
time for the six day rule? Or does this ruling need a start date?

I wonder what would happen if the "organizers" gave a start place,
route and end place and cycled it but the rest of the CM went
somewhere else.

Even better if everyone intending to go submits a different route from
the same start point. 2000 route plans will certainly keep them going.

Oh, and if you are planning to meet a group of friends to cycle from
say, waterloo, to say, a pub in westminster, do you need to tell the
police? What if it is just one friend? How many is a procession or
parade.

Mind you, I still think they'd cause a lot more chaos if they just
turned up in cars and drove around for a bit. Maybe a "three laps of the
charging zone" route, start and end whereever you like. No need to
follow anyone, just turn up and do it. (The bike could go on the
roof rack ;-)

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

"Mark Thompson"
<pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

However, Lord Justice Leveson said cyclists came together at a fixed
point,
but the lead riders chose the course and where the rally finished.

What if the leader changed every couple of minutes?

That could make for quite a good ride - new leader after every turn and the
new leader makes up his own mind which way to go. Just make sure you don't
end up in any dead ends.

--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me

On Mon, 21 May 2007 17:21:27 +0100 someone who may be del
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Met Police have won their appeal and now the CM will have to give route
details etc.

As a wise man, who defeated the greatest empire the world has seen,
once said, "first they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they
fight you, then you win."

As in a number of cases if the police and other repressive
organisations are fighting against something that is a good sign.

A good approach would certainly be to swamp the police, as has been
done over other issues. The only downside is that the police will
add those who do to their databases of known troublemakers who are
not content to live in Tony's Britain.

It will certainly cause the police some trouble when they grab
someone cycling along the road who just happens to be in the area.
However, given that the police can murder a passenger on a train,
smugly say that they had done the right thing and not face any real
accountability for the murder I doubt if this trouble will bother
the police.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Tim Woodall said:

Mind you, I still think they'd cause a lot more chaos if they just
turned up in cars and drove around for a bit. Maybe a "three laps of the
charging zone" route, start and end whereever you like. No need to
follow anyone, just turn up and do it. (The bike could go on the
roof rack ;-)

Now this I like!!
:-))

David Martin said:

On May 21, 5:44 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

del said:

On Monday 21 May 2007 17:21 del, wrote:
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm>
> Met Police have won their appeal and now the CM will have to give
> route details etc.
Er! thinking about it wouldn't this ruling put the June London CM out of
time for the six day rule? Or does this ruling need a start date?

I wonder what would happen if the "organizers" gave a start place,
route and end place and cycled it but the rest of the CM went
somewhere else.

Even better if everyone intending to go submits a different route from
the same start point. 2000 route plans will certainly keep them going.

Do the fire brigade need to submit a route six days in advance for when
they send more than one fire engine to a fire?

Martin.

David Hansen said:

given that the police can murder a passenger on a train

Consider these four senarios.

Armed police see a suspect suicide bomber on a train.

They shoot, kill the guy, then discover they were wrong.
They shoot, kill the guy, then discover him packed with explosives.
They don't shoot, arrest the guy, and find he's innocent.
They don't shoot, the guy blows himself up killing two and injuring 20

List them 1 - 4 in order of preference.

In one example the killing officers are heroes, in two they are
villains (dead villains at that), and in one they are neither.

While I certainly believe that those in charge of the operation need
to be held to account for their errors, I don't think that the person
who pulled the trigger is guilty of murder.

On Tue, 22 May 2007 06:50:10 +0100 someone who may be Tom Crispin
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Consider these four senarios.

Armed police see a suspect suicide bomber on a train.

Not one of them covers events at the murder.

Consider the facts:

1) A group of officials and party politicians draws up a fairly
secret plan to kill people on the whim of officials. This group are
so arrogant that they don't believe this should be discussed by the
public. They claim to have taken advice from Israel and Sri Lanka,
but the plan doesn't include the requirement that officers must only
shoot if they have seen a bomb which applies in those two places.

2) Someone who is supposedly dangerous emerges from a block of flats
and is allowed to get on a bus, even though a bus has been blown up
not long before.

3) The person is followed all the way to the murder scene, so the
police can't claim that they thought he picked up a bomb somewhere.

4) There seems to be confusion about instructions, which we have yet
to get to the bottom of.

5) The supposedly dangerous man is placed under arrest and has no
bomb, as there is no coat or bag large enough to conceal it.

6) The supposedly dangerous man is then shot seven times in the head
with dum dum bullets while under arrest.

7) The accused are then left in control of the crime scene for five
days. During this time there is plenty of opportunity for things the
accused wish to conceal to be concealed and things they wish to
invent to be invented.

8) The first press release the head of the "Independent" Police
Complaints Commission says what a wonderful job the police are
doing. This is also the person who couldn't be bothered to secure
the crime scene for five days.

9) The authors of the plan appear to have been taken by surprise to
discover that the police are not 100% perfect. Therefore they have
not considered the position their plan would put everyone involved
in when the first murder takes place.

10) As expected those responsible are not prosecuted. They also say
that their plan will not be changed as they know best.

Note that I did not indicate which individuals are the murderers. In
this particular case there was a conspiracy to murder that did not
just involve the individuals at the murder scene.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

del said:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm>
Met Police have won their appeal and now the CM will have to give route
details etc.

Full text of the judgement here:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2007/477.html

David Hansen said:

. In
this particular case there was a conspiracy to murder that did not
just involve the individuals at the murder scene.

Al the preceding snipped, was predicated upon this assumption.

[censored] up or conspiracy?

[censored] up, on the evidence I've seen

pk

On Tue, 22 May 2007 08:32:38 +0100 someone who may be "p.k."
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

David Hansen said:

. In
this particular case there was a conspiracy to murder that did not
just involve the individuals at the murder scene.

Al the preceding snipped, was predicated upon this assumption.

It is not an assumption. The conspirators even gave their conspiracy
several names, one of which is reported to be Kratos.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Tom Crispin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Hansen said:

given that the police can murder a passenger on a train

Consider these four senarios.

Armed police see a suspect suicide bomber on a train.

They shoot, kill the guy, then discover they were wrong.
They shoot, kill the guy, then discover him packed with explosives.
They don't shoot, arrest the guy, and find he's innocent.
They don't shoot, the guy blows himself up killing two and injuring 20

List them 1 - 4 in order of preference.

In one example the killing officers are heroes, in two they are
villains (dead villains at that), and in one they are neither.

You missed out they don't shoot, arrest the guy, then find him packed with
explosives.

clive

David Hansen said:

On Tue, 22 May 2007 08:32:38 +0100 someone who may be "p.k."
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

David Hansen said:

. In
this particular case there was a conspiracy to murder that did not
just involve the individuals at the murder scene.

Al the preceding snipped, was predicated upon this assumption.

It is not an assumption. The conspirators even gave their conspiracy
several names, one of which is reported to be Kratos.

Hanlon's razor is apt here:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."

Martin.