Lombardia

"Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another vintage edition of arguably one of the most challenging monuments, and there is no
discussion on RBR?

What gives? There are only a few races on the calendar with more prestige than a win in Lombardia.

I am very impressed by Bartoli's win, in spite of his status as a possible winner. He seemed to
accomplish this with power and confidence. I am not a fan of his, but props are due.

I would appreciate it more if I could watch it. Personally, I am more pleased with Alessandro
Bertolini's win at Piemonte. He suffered like hell to place second to last in the TdF this year, and
also ground through the Vuelta for one lousy 4th place on stage 12. It was good for him to get this
one big result out of the season.

-Sonarrat.

"Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another vintage edition of arguably one of the most challenging monuments, and there is no
discussion on RBR?

<snip>

For whatever reason, the Giro di Lombardia just doesn't get any respect here, ever.

I had an argument a few years ago with the esteemed D. Connelly, where he was trying to maintain
that it really wasn't one of the 5 Monuments. That attitude contrasts starkly with a rider I've
spoken to who has done that race and the Tour of Flanders. He thought Lombardy was the hardest one
day race he'd ever done (he hadn't done Paris-Roubaix).

Quoted message said:

I am very impressed by Bartoli's win, in spite of his status as a possible winner. He seemed to
accomplish this with power and confidence. I am not a fan of his, but props are due.

I'm not a fan of Michelle either, but she was impressive. Looks to be the Bartoli of old.

It was a good race, but too few of the big shots had enough left in them to play their role. It
wasnt enitrely clear whether Bartoli waited for Lopeboselli on the ascent into Bergamo. Maybe the
young dude collaborated well in order to be taken along to the finish. Not that he was parked on
that climb though, that's why it wasn't entirely clear.

There is no respect for the monuments in general. Also in the UCI scoring. A world cup race victory
brings 240 points while a hors category race brings for the winner, including some stage results
about the double. Now, Paris-Nice, Romandy etc. are fine races in themselves, but they used to be
races where the main contenders came to finetune for the classics or GTs. So the classics are
underrated IMO.

An example of another order: Petacchi scored far more points with his Giro stage results alone this
year than Van Petegem with his classics double.

Bart

Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

It was a good race, but too few of the big shots had enough left in them

to play

Quoted message said:

their role.

That happens just about every year, at the end of the season.

Quoted message said:

It wasnt enitrely clear whether Bartoli waited for Lopeboselli on the

ascent into

Quoted message said:

Bergamo. Maybe the young dude collaborated well in order to be taken along

to the

Quoted message said:

finish. Not that he was parked on that climb though, that's why it

wasn't

Quoted message said:

entirely clear.

I am sure Michele eased off his tempo and waited for him; noone could ever catch them, and he would
outsprint him anyhow.

Quoted message said:

An example of another order: Petacchi scored far more points with his Giro

stage

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results alone this year than Van Petegem with his classics double.

Agreed

Sergio Pisa

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It was a good race, but too few of the big shots had enough left in them to

play

Quoted message said:

their role. It wasnt enitrely clear whether Bartoli waited for Lopeboselli on the

ascent into

Quoted message said:

Bergamo. Maybe the young dude collaborated well in order to be taken along

to the

Quoted message said:

finish. Not that he was parked on that climb though, that's why it wasn't entirely clear.

There is no respect for the monuments in general. Also in the UCI scoring.

A

Quoted message said:

world cup race victory brings 240 points while a hors category race brings

for

Quoted message said:

the winner, including some stage results about the double. Now, Paris-Nice, Romandy etc. are fine
races in themselves, but they used to be races where

the

Quoted message said:

main contenders came to finetune for the classics or GTs. So the classics

are

Quoted message said:

underrated IMO.

I agree. One day races embodies all that is best about bike racing.

The most salient feature of The Monuments is the great tradition they all have. Have they all
celebrated the Centenary Edition yet? And what is the UCI's motivation for not placing a proper
point value on the Classics? It seems as if they are deliberately undercutting the sports most
history-laden showcases. And for what? $$$? Or shortsightedness?

Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

An example of another order: Petacchi scored far more points with his Giro stage results alone
this year than Van Petegem with his classics double.

This has always seemed a major injustice to me, considering how much harder it is to win classics
like Paris-Roubaix or LBL for example compared to winning a flat stage in the giro or tour.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I agree. One day races embodies all that is best about bike racing.

The most salient feature of The Monuments is the great tradition they all have. Have they all
celebrated the Centenary Edition yet? And what is the UCI's motivation for not placing a proper
point value on the Classics? It seems as if they are deliberately undercutting the sports most

history-laden

Quoted message said:

showcases. And for what? $$$? Or shortsightedness?

I think the intent was to artificially raise the importance of the other races. The vision was to
have fans focusing on more races throughout the season to get a better return on the sponsor's
investments.

It has backfired. The new league format is the latest idea to achieve the same goal that the UCI
point system was supposed to accomplish.

Quoted message said:

I am very impressed by Bartoli's win, in spite of his status as a possible winner. He seemed to
accomplish this with power and confidence. I am not a fan of his, but props are due.

He sure was strong. I'm still a big fan. It's a pitty that he doesn't get the recognition that he
deserves. Not even in his own Italy. After almost ending his carreer after a crash in the Tour Of
Germany 99 and after this year's fracture of his pelvis he gave us some good old Bartoli stuff
saturday. IMO He's one the biggest classics rider of the last decade after Johan Museeuw. So I would
be great (for us) if he would join the Belgian Team for the WC at Verona next year as he said today
on Flemish Teletext.

Quoted message said:

There is no respect for the monuments in general. Also in the UCI scoring. A world cup race
victory brings 240 points while a hors category race brings for the winner, including some stage
results about the double. Now, Paris-Nice, Romandy etc. are fine races in themselves, but they
used to be races where the main contenders came to finetune for the classics or GTs. So the
classics are underrated IMO.

An example of another order: Petacchi scored far more points with his Giro stage results alone
this year than Van Petegem with his classics double.

I'm so glad you said it and I agree 100%. Especially the rating of those spanish 2.1 and 2.2 races
make me sick. There are like a million of those races over there and they are all worth many
UCI-points which is ofcourse great for the local spanish riders who focus on these races and make
incredible jumps in the UCI-ranking. But these races are way to overrated in comparison to the
classics. 260km race is still a special distance where a lot of riders are not capable of. As they
say: 200km is some kind of psychological and physical barrier.

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is no respect for the monuments in general. Also in the UCI

scoring. A

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

world cup race victory brings 240 points while a hors category race

brings for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the winner, including some stage results about the double. Now,

Paris-Nice,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Romandy etc. are fine races in themselves, but they used to be races

where the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

main contenders came to finetune for the classics or GTs. So the classics

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

underrated IMO.

An example of another order: Petacchi scored far more points with his

Giro stage

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

results alone this year than Van Petegem with his classics double.

I'm so glad you said it and I agree 100%. Especially the rating of those spanish 2.1 and 2.2 races
make me sick. There are like a million of those races over there and they are all worth many
UCI-points which is ofcourse great for the local spanish riders who focus on these races and make
incredible jumps in the UCI-ranking. But these races are way to overrated in comparison to the
classics. 260km race is still a special distance where a lot of riders are not capable of. As they
say: 200km is some kind of psychological and physical barrier.

Dumbass -

That depends on the terrain.

The 200k may apply to a Belgian-style parcours, but stages of the GT's over the mountains can be
shorter and equally, if not more selective.

Or a race like Milan-San Remo can go 300k and finish in a bunch sprint.

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It was a good race, but too few of the big shots had enough left in them to

play

Quoted message said:

their role. It wasnt enitrely clear whether Bartoli waited for Lopeboselli on the ascent

into

Quoted message said:

Bergamo. Maybe the young dude collaborated well in order to be taken along to

the

Quoted message said:

finish. Not that he was parked on that climb though, that's why it wasn't entirely clear.

There is no respect for the monuments in general. Also in the UCI scoring. A world cup race
victory brings 240 points while a hors category race brings for the winner, including some stage
results about the double. Now, Paris-Nice, Romandy etc. are fine races in themselves, but they
used to be races where the main contenders came to finetune for the classics or GTs. So the
classics are underrated IMO.

An example of another order: Petacchi scored far more points with his Giro

stage

Quoted message said:

results alone this year than Van Petegem with his classics double.

Ah, but Petacchi is 3rd in points, and Bettini is 1st...

Wouldn't you say that's fair?

-Sonarrat.

Bart said:

Quoted message said:

There is no respect for the monuments in general. Also in the UCI scoring. A world cup race
victory brings 240 points while a hors category race brings for the winner, including some stage
results about the double. Now, Paris-Nice, Romandy etc. are fine races in themselves, but they
used to be races where the main contenders came to finetune for the classics or GTs. So the
classics are underrated IMO.

An example of another order: Petacchi scored far more points with his Giro

stage

Quoted message said:

results alone this year than Van Petegem with his classics double.

Sonarrat said:

Ah, but Petacchi is 3rd in points, and Bettini is 1st...

Wouldn't you say that's fair?

No, classics winners (and 2nd and 3rd placers) such as Van Petegem should receive more points for
their places in the classics. Bettini also got some of his points from TDF stage placings (2nd in
one of the stages if I recall correctly).

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bart said:

Quoted message said:

There is no respect for the monuments in general. Also in the UCI

scoring. A

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

world cup race victory brings 240 points while a hors category race

brings for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the winner, including some stage results about the double. Now,

Paris-Nice,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Romandy etc. are fine races in themselves, but they used to be races

where the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

main contenders came to finetune for the classics or GTs. So the

classics are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

underrated IMO.

An example of another order: Petacchi scored far more points with his

Giro

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stage

Quoted message said:

results alone this year than Van Petegem with his classics double.

Sonarrat said:

Ah, but Petacchi is 3rd in points, and Bettini is 1st...

Wouldn't you say that's fair?

No, classics winners (and 2nd and 3rd placers) such as Van Petegem should receive more points for
their places in the classics. Bettini also got some of his points from TDF stage placings (2nd in
one of the stages if I recall correctly).

Bettini won Milan San Remo.

Quoted message said:

That depends on the terrain.

The 200k may apply to a Belgian-style parcours, but stages of the GT's over the mountains can be
shorter and equally, if not more selective.

Or a race like Milan-San Remo can go 300k and finish in a bunch sprint.

Well deuh!! I'm not comparing moutain stages to flat or belgian style races. I'm just saying that on
a tracks which are comparable (eg a flat first week tour stage and Paris-Tours) the length makes a
big difference (180km against 260km). And that's certainly one of the reasons why Zabel could beat
Petacchi at Paris-Tours. Zabel is used to classic races of 260km but Petacchi with his 15 grand tour
stage victories not really.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

For whatever reason, the Giro di Lombardia just doesn't get any respect here, ever.

It's at the end of the season and rbr readers are tired and fatigued from a long season of too much
... oh yeah, not much except donut-eating.

So much of racing is about form and trying to predict it. Lombardia is a bigger race than say Het
Volk, but people pay attention to Het Volk in part because it's used as a predictor. (Bettini was
3rd in Het Volk; OTOH, VDB was 4th, so what can you say.)

Want to talk about the absurdity of the UCI points system? Too much reward for consistency. OK,
Zabel deserves 2nd just for being Zabel, but Davide Rebellin in 5th ??? Poor Heras won a grand tour
and didn't crack the top 20.

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bart wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is no respect for the monuments in general. Also in the UCI scoring.

A

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

world cup race victory brings 240 points while a hors category race brings

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the winner, including some stage results about the double. Now, Paris-Nice, Romandy etc. are
fine races in themselves, but they used to be races where

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

main contenders came to finetune for the classics or GTs. So the classics

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

underrated IMO.

An example of another order: Petacchi scored far more points with his Giro stage results alone
this year than Van Petegem with his classics double.

Ah, but Petacchi is 3rd in points, and Bettini is 1st...

Wouldn't you say that's fair?

No, classics winners (and 2nd and 3rd placers) such as Van Petegem should receive more points for
their places in the classics. Bettini also got some of his points from TDF stage placings (2nd in
one of the stages if I recall correctly).

You are correct... and he also came in 4th in the first stage and 7th in another stage. The thing
is, though, that Petacchi racked up 25 victories, including 15 GT stage wins, and still just cracked
the podium...

-Sonarrat.