lollipop lady

PK said the following on 29/02/2008 15:01:

Quoted message said:

Whatever ones views about cyclists easing through red lights for safety
reasons - such behaviour is deplorable.

I used to live slip bang opposite a school, so I've seen the sort of
behaviour lollipop ladies have to put up with. Certainly by that
school, the biggest danger was parents in cars trying to force their way
past the lollipop lady even whilst children are crossing, having already
been delayed because of other parents parking all over the place,
including the zig-zag yellows, and so restricting the effective width of
an already narrow road.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"PK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the London local tv news last night was a piece about a lollipop lady
who
was cross about the number of cyclists who go through the Zebra Crossing
she
guards while her stop sign is showing. Apparently the record is 17 in 1
hour & several were shown during the brief interview.

Whatever ones views about cyclists easing through red lights for safety
reasons - such behaviour is deplorable.

I don't think anyone's going to disagree with you there.

Next time you see an article about bad driving or watch Police Camera
Action why not bring it to the attention of UK rec driving?

In news:[email hidden],
PK <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

On the London local tv news last night was a piece about a lollipop
lady who was cross about the number of cyclists who go through the
Zebra Crossing she guards while her stop sign is showing. Apparently
the record is 17 in 1 hour & several were shown during the brief
interview.
Whatever ones views about cyclists easing through red lights for
safety reasons - such behaviour is deplorable.

I am reliably informed, however, that:

o a moped rider did likewise, and
o this merited no comment whatsoever

Grrr!

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Pepperoni and green peppers, mushrooms, olives, chives!

PK said:

On the London local tv news last night was a piece about a lollipop lady who
was cross about the number of cyclists who go through the Zebra Crossing she
guards while her stop sign is showing. Apparently the record is 17 in 1
hour & several were shown during the brief interview.

Whatever ones views about cyclists easing through red lights for safety
reasons - such behaviour is deplorable.

I assumed she meant in one day (although her shift might be short).
She said a typical figure was 6 or 7 I think. They showed several
examples of cyclists crossing the zebra whilst she was stood in the
middle with her sign up. Absolutely unjustifiable in my book although
none of them, passed especially close to a pedestrian. A scooter also
did exactly the same thing so it was interesting that the report was
very explicit that it was only cyclists who were seen as a risk and no
comment was made about the scooter. I have no problem with condeming
the manouvres shown in the report

Personally the most common annoyance or safety risk to the school run
(which I don't so often) is parents dropping off in cars and the
second is cars and vans going to fast or initmidating crossing peds.
I can't say what proportion of these vehicles are driven by parents
dropping children.

best wishes
james

PK said:

On the London local tv news last night was a piece about a lollipop lady who
was cross about the number of cyclists who go through the Zebra Crossing she
guards while her stop sign is showing. Apparently the record is 17 in 1
hour & several were shown during the brief interview.

Whatever ones views about cyclists easing through red lights for safety
reasons - such behaviour is deplorable.

Quite. This reminds me, I saw on the back of, IIRC, every First bus I
saw in Manchester on Wednesday, posters with something like 'Signs of a
Considerate Road User'. These didn't seem just to be urging road users
to let buses pull out, but to signal, wait at pedestrian crossings, etc.

It's perhaps the first time in quite a while that I've seen any
suggestion that there is more to good road use than obeying speed
limits, wearing a seatbelt / helmet, or stopping at a red traffic light.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Quoted message said:

On Feb 29, 3:01 pm, "PK" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On the London local tv news last night was a piece about a lollipop lady who
was cross about the number of cyclists who go through the Zebra Crossing she
guards while her stop sign is showing. Apparently the record is 17 in 1
hour & several were shown during the brief interview.

Quoted message said:

Whatever ones views about cyclists easing through red lights for safety
reasons - such behaviour is deplorable.

Quoted message said:

I assumed she meant in one day (although her shift might be short).

It'll be about an hour, I should think.

Quoted message said:

She said a typical figure was 6 or 7 I think. They showed several
examples of cyclists crossing the zebra whilst she was stood in the
middle with her sign up. Absolutely unjustifiable in my book although
none of them, passed especially close to a pedestrian. A scooter also
did exactly the same thing so it was interesting that the report was
very explicit that it was only cyclists who were seen as a risk and no
comment was made about the scooter.

Nevertheless, the scooter-rider will, by default, be included among the
offenders.

Quoted message said:

I have no problem with condeming the manouvres shown in the report

They were mot "maneouvres"; they were offences.

Quoted message said:

Personally the most common annoyance or safety risk to the school run
(which I don't so often) is parents dropping off in cars and the
second is cars and vans going to fast or initmidating crossing peds.
I can't say what proportion of these vehicles are driven by parents
dropping children.

Where *is* the problem with parents dropping off children at school?

This keeps coming up as though it were illegal or something - but it
*isn't*.

There's a large secondary school just down the road from me.
Twice a day (during term time) the area comes to a standstill. That's
life and it's OK. We live with it.

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:14:17 +0000 someone who may be Paul Boyd
<usenet.is.worse@plusnet> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I used to live slip bang opposite a school, so I've seen the sort of
behaviour lollipop ladies have to put up with. Certainly by that
school, the biggest danger was parents in cars trying to force their way
past the lollipop lady even whilst children are crossing, having already
been delayed because of other parents parking all over the place,
including the zig-zag yellows, and so restricting the effective width of
an already narrow road.

Someone I knew who once did school crossing patrols told me that the
motorists were far worse than the cyclists. Not that this excuses
the reported activities of the cyclists.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:41:41 -0800 (PST) someone who may be
[email hidden] wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

A scooter also
did exactly the same thing so it was interesting that the report was
very explicit that it was only cyclists who were seen as a risk and no
comment was made about the scooter.

A scooter rider ... the scooter rider.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 29/02/2008 17:43, JNugent said,

Quoted message said:

Where *is* the problem with parents dropping off children at school?

This keeps coming up as though it were illegal or something - but it
*isn't*.

It is illegal when they park on double yellows or even the zig-zags by
the school gates, park too close to corners, park so as to totally block
a road, park on the pavements etc.

I lived a lot closer to a school than you do if "yours" is down the
road, and I can assure you that all these things happened regularly,
daily, in fact. Those are just the just the illegal aspects - I won't
even go into the anti-social aspects.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd said:

JNugent said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where *is* the problem with parents dropping off children at school?
This keeps coming up as though it were illegal or something - but it
*isn't*.

Quoted message said:

It is illegal when they park on double yellows or even the zig-zags by
the school gates, park too close to corners, park so as to totally block
a road, park on the pavements etc.

Wrong.

Parking on a yellow line may be illegal, but stopping on one to drop off
or pick up a passenger is *not* illegal. Read it up if you don't believe me.

Quoted message said:

I lived a lot closer to a school than you do if "yours" is down the
road,

How about six doors away?

But wave whatever you're waving if you must - I don't care how small it is.

Quoted message said:

and I can assure you that all these things happened regularly,
daily, in fact. Those are just the just the illegal aspects - I won't
even go into the anti-social aspects.

There ought to be a law against obstructing the highway.

Oh, hang on... there *is*.

But there is none against taking a child to school (or anywhere else) by
car. And long may it remain so, even if it means chaos outside my house
twice a day.

Paul Boyd said:

On 29/02/2008 17:43, JNugent said,

Quoted message said:

Where *is* the problem with parents dropping off children at school?

This keeps coming up as though it were illegal or something - but it
*isn't*.

It is illegal when they park on double yellows or even the zig-zags by
the school gates, park too close to corners, park so as to totally block
a road, park on the pavements etc.

You forgot the 'park on the tarmac labelled "no stopping - emergency
vehicle access"', which is a favourite at my daughter's school
(it being adjacent to the entrance to a hospital).

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said:

On 29/02/2008 17:43, JNugent said,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where *is* the problem with parents dropping off children at school?
This keeps coming up as though it were illegal or something - but it
*isn't*.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is illegal when they park on double yellows or even the zig-zags by
the school gates, park too close to corners, park so as to totally block
a road, park on the pavements etc.

Quoted message said:

You forgot the 'park on the tarmac labelled "no stopping - emergency
vehicle access"', which is a favourite at my daughter's school
(it being adjacent to the entrance to a hospital).

Then attack *that* and be in the right, rather than being completely in
the wrong by taking part in these curmudgeonly attacks on mothers and
children who are behaving lawfully. And it is almost always mothers who
are on the receiving end of it.

JNugent said:

Quoted message said:

PK said:

On the London local tv news last night was a piece about a lollipop lady who
was cross about the number of cyclists who go through the Zebra Crossing she
guards while her stop sign is showing. Apparently the record is 17 in 1
hour & several were shown during the brief interview.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whatever ones views about cyclists easing through red lights for safety
reasons - such behaviour is deplorable.

I assumed she meant in one day (although her shift might be short).

It'll be about an hour, I should think.

Quoted message said:

She said a typical figure was 6 or 7 I think. They showed several
examples of cyclists crossing the zebra whilst she was stood in the
middle with her sign up. Absolutely unjustifiable in my book although
none of them, passed especially close to a pedestrian. A scooter also
did exactly the same thing so it was interesting that the report was
very explicit that it was only cyclists who were seen as a risk and no
comment was made about the scooter.

Nevertheless, the scooter-rider will, by default, be included among the
offenders.

nope, the report was very specific about this being a problem of
cyclists crossing the zebra illegally and unsafely. It struck me that
the report said (I paraphrase) "look at this cyclist blowing the
crossing" to VT of a cyclist and then a scooterist doing exactly that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have no problem with condeming the manouvres shown in the report

They were mot "maneouvres"; they were offences.

Maneouvre wasn't intended as a weasel word. Irrespective of the
offence, what was shown in the clip was wrong

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Personally the most common annoyance or safety risk to the school run
(which I don't so often) is parents dropping off in cars and the
second is cars and vans going to fast or initmidating crossing peds.
I can't say what proportion of these vehicles are driven by parents
dropping children.

Where *is* the problem with parents dropping off children at school?

Sorry, I didn't proof read before hitting send. My problem was with
people parking illegally and/or dangerously during the school run.
This is almost exclusively done by people dropping off children at the
school in motor vehicles

Quoted message said:

This keeps coming up as though it were illegal or something - but it
*isn't*.

There's a large secondary school just down the road from me.
Twice a day (during term time) the area comes to a standstill. That's
life and it's OK. We live with it.

I would /prefer/ that there was less traffic on the roads full stop
for all sorts of reasons. It would be perfectly practical for many of
the motor based school run journeys to be undertaken by another mode
but there are plenty of examples of egregiously dangerous /and/
illegal behaviour to get worked up about alongside /encouraging/ a
reduction in car use. But I fear we are getting to far OT

best wishes
james

JNugent said:

Paul Boyd said:

JNugent said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where *is* the problem with parents dropping off children at school?
This keeps coming up as though it were illegal or something - but it
*isn't*.

Quoted message said:

It is illegal when they park on double yellows or even the zig-zags by
the school gates, park too close to corners, park so as to totally
block a road, park on the pavements etc.

Wrong.

Parking on a yellow line may be illegal, but stopping on one to drop off
or pick up a passenger is *not* illegal. Read it up if you don't believe
me.

Time you sat your driving test again, my lad. Double yellows were
specified. What part of 'you may not stop or wait at any time' do you
have trouble understanding?

Simon Brooke said:

JNugent said:

Paul Boyd said:

JNugent said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Where *is* the problem with parents dropping off children at school?
> This keeps coming up as though it were illegal or something - but it
> *isn't*.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is illegal when they park on double yellows or even the zig-zags
by the school gates, park too close to corners, park so as to totally
block a road, park on the pavements etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wrong.
Parking on a yellow line may be illegal, but stopping on one to drop
off or pick up a passenger is *not* illegal. Read it up if you don't
believe me.

Quoted message said:

Time you sat your driving test again, my lad. Double yellows were
specified. What part of 'you may not stop or wait at any time' do you
have trouble understanding?

Read the exceptions.

If double yellows meant what you think they mean (which they certainly
*don't*), there would be no need for double reds (which *do* mean what
you think double yellows mean).

On 29/02/2008 21:27, JNugent said,

Quoted message said:

Wrong.

Right - I suggest you do the reading up.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I lived a lot closer to a school than you do if "yours" is down the road,

How about six doors away?

How about my front gate was exactly, and I mean exactly, opposite the
main school gate? The lollipop lady stood outside my gate to cross the
children over, and *still* parents stopped on the big yellow "Keep
Clear" words painted on the road. This all gave me a grandstand POV
when my working hours were later than they are now.

Quoted message said:

There ought to be a law against obstructing the highway.

Oh, hang on... there *is*.

Exactly. I don't think anyone has objected (much) to parents taking
children to school in cars. It is the illegal, dangerous and idiotic
behaviour of some of those parents people complain about.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is illegal when they park on double yellows or even the zig-zags by
the school gates, park too close to corners, park so as to totally block
a road, park on the pavements etc.

Wrong.

Parking on a yellow line may be illegal, but stopping on one to drop off
or pick up a passenger is *not* illegal. Read it up if you don't believe
me.

Time you sat your driving test again, my lad. Double yellows were
specified. What part of 'you may not stop or wait at any time' do you have
trouble understanding?

Time you read your highway code, my lad.

I'll help:

"Waiting restrictions indicated by yellow lines apply to the carriageway,
pavement and verge. You
may stop to load or unload (unless there are also loading restrictions as
described below) or while
passengers board or alight. Double yellow lines mean no waiting at any time,
unless there are signs
that specifically indicate seasonal restrictions."

Dropping off passengers IS allowed.

And if that is too difficult for you to understand try:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/finesandregulations/949.aspx

which states specifically:
<<
a.. You may stop on yellow lines to pick up or drop off passengers
a.. On some yellow lines you may also stop to load or unload goods, but
always check the roadside signs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pk

JNugent said:

Ian Smith said:

On 29/02/2008 17:43, JNugent said,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Where *is* the problem with parents dropping off children at school?
> This keeps coming up as though it were illegal or something - but it
> *isn't*.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is illegal when they park on double yellows or even the zig-zags by
the school gates, park too close to corners, park so as to totally block
a road, park on the pavements etc.

Quoted message said:

You forgot the 'park on the tarmac labelled "no stopping - emergency
vehicle access"', which is a favourite at my daughter's school
(it being adjacent to the entrance to a hospital).

Then attack *that* and be in the right, rather than being completely in
the wrong by taking part in these curmudgeonly attacks on mothers and
children who are behaving lawfully.

I have made no such attack. You are mouthing off at your straw pal
again.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Paul Boyd said:

On 29/02/2008 21:27, JNugent said,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wrong.

Quoted message said:

Right - I suggest you do the reading up.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I lived a lot closer to a school than you do if "yours" is down the
road,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How about six doors away?

Quoted message said:

How about my front gate was exactly, and I mean exactly, opposite the
main school gate?

What about it?

Does anything turn on it?

Quoted message said:

The lollipop lady stood outside my gate to cross the
children over, and *still* parents stopped on the big yellow "Keep
Clear" words painted on the road. This all gave me a grandstand POV
when my working hours were later than they are now.

We all know it happens.

But if you think you'll ever get parentsin some way banned from bring
their children to school by car, you're away with the fairies.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There ought to be a law against obstructing the highway.
Oh, hang on... there *is*.

Quoted message said:

Exactly. I don't think anyone has objected (much) to parents taking
children to school in cars. It is the illegal, dangerous and idiotic
behaviour of some of those parents people complain about.

Tell the police.