General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Logic insists farmers cause them

Derek · 2004-01-12T10:37:19+00:00

"Bill" wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... "Bill" wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... Derek wrote: >"Bill" wrote in message >"]news:[email hidden]... >>Derek wrote: > >>>Logic insists farmers cause them, >> >>No, it doesn't, you ignorant idiot. > >1) If autonomous farmers kill animals, then they are responsible for their deaths. >2) Autonomous farmers do kill animals therefore >3) they are responsible for their deaths. > >What could be simpler? That you are complicit in the deaths, and share moral responsibility for them. Only according to buck-passing miscreants. No. Yes. You are passing the buck from the culprit who causes them to the ethical vegan who doesn't in order to make him complicit in something he isn't involved in. Shame on you.

Started by Derek · 12 January 2004 · Last activity 12 January 2004 · 21 posts · 552 views

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01 / Original postLogic insists farmers cause themDerek · 12 Jan 2004 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 2 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #21Dutch · 12 Jan 2004

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Original section: General fitness, health and nutrition
Published: 12 January 2004
Last activity: 12 January 2004
Original author: Derek
Posts: 21
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 552
Views / 30 days: 0

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Original post
Derek
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:37 UTC #1

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Derek said:
"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Derek wrote:
>"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>"]news:[email hidden]...
>>Derek wrote:
>
>>>Logic insists farmers cause them,
>>
>>No, it doesn't, you ignorant idiot.
>
>1) If autonomous farmers kill animals, then they are responsible for their deaths.
>2) Autonomous farmers do kill animals therefore
>3) they are responsible for their deaths.
>
>What could be simpler?
That you are complicit in the deaths, and share moral responsibility for them.
Only according to buck-passing miscreants.
No.
Yes. You are passing the buck from the culprit who causes them to the ethical vegan who doesn't in
order to make him complicit in something he isn't involved in. Shame on you.

Report
Rick Etter
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:40 UTC #2

"Derek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Derek said:
"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>Derek wrote:
>>"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>>>Derek wrote:
>>
>>>>Logic insists farmers cause them,
>>>
>>>No, it doesn't, you ignorant idiot.
>>
>>1) If autonomous farmers kill animals, then they are responsible for their deaths.
>>2) Autonomous farmers do kill animals therefore
>>3) they are responsible for their deaths.
>>
>>What could be simpler?
>
>That you are complicit in the deaths, and share moral responsibility for them.
Only according to buck-passing miscreants.
No.
Yes. You are passing the buck from the culprit who causes them to the ethical vegan who doesn't in
order to make him complicit in something he isn't involved in. Shame on you.

=====================
Nope, the shame is all yours for choosing actions that you know causes death and suffering despite
being able to make other choices. makes you complicit, hypocrite.

Report
Bill
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:40 UTC #3

Derek, thinking he's fooling someone alternating with
Quoted message said:
"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>
>>"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>>"]news:[email hidden]...
>>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>>
>>>>Logic insists farmers cause them,
>>>
>>>No, it doesn't, you ignorant idiot.
>>
>>1) If autonomous farmers kill animals, then they are responsible for their deaths.
>>2) Autonomous farmers do kill animals therefore
>>3) they are responsible for their deaths.
>>
>>What could be simpler?
>
>That you are complicit in the deaths, and share moral responsibility for them.
Only according to buck-passing miscreants.
No.
Yes.
No, Dreck/"jane"/"ipse dixit". Logic dictates that you are the buck-passing miscreant.

Report
Derek
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:42 UTC #4

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Derek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...
Quoted message said:
"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Derek wrote:
> "Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "]news:[email hidden]...
>>Derek wrote:
>>>"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>>>"]news:[email hidden]...
>>>>Derek wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Logic insists farmers cause them,
>>>>
>>>>No, it doesn't, you ignorant idiot.
>>>
>>>1) If autonomous farmers kill animals, then they are responsible for their deaths.
>>>2) Autonomous farmers do kill animals therefore
>>>3) they are responsible for their deaths.
>>>
>>>What could be simpler?
>>
>>That you are complicit in the deaths, and share moral responsibility for them.
>
> Only according to buck-passing miscreants.
No.
Yes. You are passing the buck from the culprit who causes them to the ethical vegan who doesn't
in order to make him complicit in something he isn't involved in. Shame on you.

=====================
Nope, the shame is all yours for choosing actions that you know causes death and suffering despite
being able to make other choices. makes you complicit, hypocrite.
I don't know that my actions (buying food) will cause the deaths of animals, and if I honestly
believed they did cause deaths, then I wouldn't continue buying food. The hypocrites are those who
believe their actions do cause deaths while at the same time claiming their victims have a right
against them not to be their victims.

Report
Derek
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:42 UTC #5

Jonathan Ball, thinking he's fooling everyone by
alternating between half a dozen different posters
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>>>>>Logic insists farmers cause them,
>>>>
>>>>No, it doesn't, you ignorant idiot.
>>>
>>>1) If autonomous farmers kill animals, then they are responsible for their deaths.
>>>2) Autonomous farmers do kill animals therefore
>>>3) they are responsible for their deaths.
>>>
>>>What could be simpler?
>>
>>That you are complicit in the deaths, and share moral responsibility for them.
>
>Only according to buck-passing miscreants.
No.
Yes.
No, Dreck/"jane"/"ipse dixit". Logic dictates that you are the buck-passing miscreant.

Then show that logic in proper form loser.

Report
Usual Suspect
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:43 UTC #6

Dreck/Jane/Immoralist/Ipse dixit/et al said:
Then show that logic in proper form loser.
It's been done for you too many times repeatedly, you filthy moron. What will pointing out your
flaws one more time change? Not a thing because you're thoroughly benighted and incorrigible.

Report
Jonathan Ball
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:43 UTC #7

Dreck Nash said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>>>>>>Logic insists farmers cause them,
>>>>>
>>>>>No, it doesn't, you ignorant idiot.
>>>>
>>>>1) If autonomous farmers kill animals, then they are responsible for their deaths.
>>>>2) Autonomous farmers do kill animals therefore
>>>>3) they are responsible for their deaths.
>>>>
>>>>What could be simpler?
>>>
>>>That you are complicit in the deaths, and share moral responsibility for them.
>>
>>Only according to buck-passing miscreants.
>
>No.
Yes.
No, Dreck/"jane"/"ipse dixit". Logic dictates that you are the buck-passing miscreant.
Then show that logic in proper form loser.
Been done, hundreds of times, shirker. AS a buckpassing shirker, you're not interested in logic,
which is why you keep stupidly insisting, under various pseudonyms, that you're not complicit.
You're wrong - you are complicit.

Report
Rick Etter
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:43 UTC #8

"Derek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
"Derek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> Derek wrote:
> > "Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> >>Derek wrote:
> >>>"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> >>>>Derek wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>Logic insists farmers cause them,
> >>>>
> >>>>No, it doesn't, you ignorant idiot.
> >>>
> >>>1) If autonomous farmers kill animals, then they are responsible for their deaths.
> >>>2) Autonomous farmers do kill animals therefore
> >>>3) they are responsible for their deaths.
> >>>
> >>>What could be simpler?
> >>
> >>That you are complicit in the deaths, and share moral responsibility for them.
> >
> > Only according to buck-passing miscreants.
>
> No.
Yes. You are passing the buck from the culprit who causes them to the ethical vegan who
doesn't in order to make him complicit in something he isn't involved in. Shame on you.

=====================
Nope, the shame is all yours for choosing actions that you know causes death and suffering
despite being able to make other choices. makes you complicit, hypocrite.
I don't know that my actions (buying food) will cause the deaths of animals, and if I honestly
believed they did cause deaths, then I wouldn't continue buying food.

=======================
Liar, you know they do. You just can't help youraself from being the ignorant hypocrite
that you are.
Quoted message said:
The hypocrites are those who believe their actions do cause deaths while at the same time claiming
their victims have a right against them not to be their victims.
==================

Which is you, exactly, killer.

Report
Derek
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:45 UTC #9

"usual suspect" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Dreck/Jane/Immoralist/Ipse dixit/et al said:
Then show that logic in proper form loser.
It's been done for you too many times repeatedly
That's a lie.

Report
Ipse Dixit
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:45 UTC #10

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Derek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...
Quoted message said:
"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Derek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...
> "Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "]news:[email hidden]...
> > Derek wrote:
> > > "Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > "]news:[email hidden]...
> > >>Derek wrote:
> > >>>"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > >>>"]news:[email hidden]...
> > >>>>Derek wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>>Logic insists farmers cause them,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>No, it doesn't, you ignorant idiot.
> > >>>
> > >>>1) If autonomous farmers kill animals, then they are responsible for their deaths.
> > >>>2) Autonomous farmers do kill animals therefore
> > >>>3) they are responsible for their deaths.
> > >>>
> > >>>What could be simpler?
> > >>
> > >>That you are complicit in the deaths, and share moral responsibility for them.
> > >
> > > Only according to buck-passing miscreants.
> >
> > No.
>
> Yes. You are passing the buck from the culprit who causes them to the ethical vegan who
> doesn't in order to make him complicit in something he isn't involved in. Shame on you.
=====================
Nope, the shame is all yours for choosing actions that you know causes death and suffering
despite being able to make other choices. makes you complicit, hypocrite.
I don't know that my actions (buying food) will cause the deaths of animals, and if I honestly
believed they did cause deaths, then I wouldn't continue buying food.

=======================
Liar, you know they do.
Superior ethical vegans buy their food and goods from suppliers which may or may not have accrued
collateral deaths while producing them, so to claim all goods have a history of CD is specious. If,
however, goods are bought carrying a known history of collateral deaths, the superior ethical vegans
like myself will return them and ask for our money back.
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
The hypocrites are those who believe their actions do cause deaths while at the same time
claiming their victims have a right against them not to be their victims.
==================

Which is you, exactly, killer.

No, it is not, because I don't believe my actions cause them.

Report
Bill
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:46 UTC #11

Derek said:
"usual suspect" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Dreck/Jane/Immoralist/Ipse dixit/et al said:
Then show that logic in proper form loser.
It's been done for you too many times repeatedly
That's a lie.
It's not. It's been so many times, you've lost track.

Report
Usual Suspect
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:46 UTC #12

Dreck/Jane/Immoralist/Ipse dixit/et al said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Then show that logic in proper form loser.
It's been done for you too many times repeatedly
That's a lie.
No. You've been proven a hypocrite, charlatan, and rank poseur time and time again. What will
pointing out your flaws one more time change? Not a thing because you're thoroughly benighted and
incorrigible.

Report
Rick Etter
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:46 UTC #13

"Ipse dixit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
snippage...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> Nope, the shame is all yours for choosing actions that you know causes death and suffering
> despite being able to make other choices. makes you complicit, hypocrite.
I don't know that my actions (buying food) will cause the deaths of animals, and if I honestly
believed they did cause deaths, then I wouldn't continue buying food.

=======================
Liar, you know they do.
Superior ethical vegans buy their food and goods from suppliers which may or may not have accrued
collateral deaths while producing them, so to claim all goods have a history of CD is specious.

=======================
there are *NO* 'superior ethical vegans' here on usenet you ignorant dolt. A true vegan wouldn't be
here contributing to massive numbers of animal deaths just for their entertainment and pleasure.
Here you are, contributing to massive amounts of truly unnecessary animal death and suffering, and
you neither care nor plan to quit. Your 'ethics' are as false as your religion, killer.
If, however, goods are bought
Quoted message said:
carrying a known history of collateral deaths, the superior ethical vegans like myself will return
them and ask for our money back.

======================
No you don't. your constant posting to usenet proves that you care not one iota about unnecessary
animal death and suffering. And this is just for your selfish entertainment, not survival. So,
you're a liar. Nothing new about that though, is there, hypocrite?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
The hypocrites are those who believe their actions do cause deaths while at the same time
claiming their victims have a right against them not to be their victims.
==================

Which is you, exactly, killer.

No, it is not, because I don't believe my actions cause them.

=========================
delusional drug abuse talking now, killer. You know you do, we know you do. You're just too
ignorant, too delusion, too hypocritical to accept it.

Report
Dutch
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:46 UTC #14

Derek Nash, pretending to be some else wrote
Quoted message said:
Superior ethical vegans buy their food and goods from suppliers which may or may not have accrued
collateral deaths while producing them
So now there are "classes" of vegans, "regular", "superior", any others? And to be a "superior"
class vegan one only has to purchase food that "may or may not" have animal deaths associated with
them? What are the standards for a regular vegan?

Report
Ipse Dixit
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:47 UTC #15

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Ipse dixit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
snippage...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> > Nope, the shame is all yours for choosing actions that you know causes death and suffering
> > despite being able to make other choices. makes you complicit, hypocrite.
>
> I don't know that my actions (buying food) will cause the deaths of animals, and if I
> honestly believed they did cause deaths, then I wouldn't continue buying food.
=======================
Liar, you know they do.
Superior ethical vegans buy their food and goods from suppliers which may or may not have
accrued collateral deaths while producing them, so to claim all goods have a history of CD is
specious.

=======================
there are *NO* 'superior ethical vegans' here on usenet you ignorant dolt.
You've just replied to one.
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
If, however, goods are bought carrying a known history of collateral deaths, the superior
ethical vegans like myself will return them and ask for our money back.

======================
No you don't.
Yes, I would.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

> The hypocrites are those who believe their actions do cause deaths while at the same time
> claiming their victims have a right against them not to be their victims.
> ==================
Which is you, exactly, killer.

No, it is not, because I don't believe my actions cause them.

=========================
delusional drug abuse talking now, killer.
Ad hominem.

Report
Ipse Dixit
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:47 UTC #16

"Dutch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Ipse dixit said:
Superior ethical vegans buy their food and goods from suppliers which may or may not have
accrued collateral deaths while producing them
So now there are "classes" of vegans, "regular", "superior", any others?
No. All ethical vegans are superior, especially me.

Report
Rick Etter
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:48 UTC #17

"Ipse dixit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

"Ipse dixit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...
snippage...
Quoted message said:
> > > Nope, the shame is all yours for choosing actions that you know causes death and
> > > suffering despite being able to make other choices. makes you complicit, hypocrite.
> >
> > I don't know that my actions (buying food) will cause the deaths of animals, and if I
> > honestly believed they did cause deaths, then I wouldn't continue buying food.
> =======================
> Liar, you know they do.
Superior ethical vegans buy their food and goods from suppliers which may or may not have
accrued collateral deaths while producing them, so to claim all goods have a history of CD is
specious.

=======================
there are *NO* 'superior ethical vegans' here on usenet you ignorant

dolt.
Quoted message said:

You've just replied to one.

=====================
ROTFLMAO!! that's a good one, killer. Got another whopper like that? Oh yeah, that's all you
have, lys.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
If, however, goods are bought carrying a known history of collateral deaths, the superior
ethical vegans like myself will return them and ask for our money back.

======================
No you don't.
Yes, I would.

=================
No, you don't. You prove you don't care about unnecessary animal death and suffering.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>
> > The hypocrites are those who believe their actions do cause deaths while at the same time
> > claiming their victims have a right against them not to be their victims.
> > ==================
> Which is you, exactly, killer.
>
No, it is not, because I don't believe my actions cause them.

=========================
delusional drug abuse talking now, killer.
Ad hominem.

==============
Truth hurts, eh hypocrite?

Report
Dutch
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:48 UTC #18

"Ipse dixit" <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:

"Dutch" <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:
Ipse dixit said:
Superior ethical vegans buy their food and goods from suppliers which may or may not have
accrued collateral deaths while producing them
So now there are "classes" of vegans, "regular", "superior", any others?
No. All ethical vegans are superior, especially me.
At least we can put the old denial to rest now.. vegans DO believe they enjoy moral superiority.
Since the vegans in your statement make no effort to know if collateral deaths have occurred, how do
they attain this moral superiority?

Report
Ipse Dixit
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:48 UTC #19

Dutch said:
"Ipse dixit" <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:

"Dutch" <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:
"Ipse dixit" wrote:
> Superior ethical vegans buy their food and goods from suppliers which may or may not have
> accrued collateral deaths while producing them
So now there are "classes" of vegans, "regular", "superior", any others?
No. All ethical vegans are superior, especially me.
At least we can put the old denial to rest now.. vegans DO believe they enjoy moral superiority.

I can't speak for them all, but I certainly do.
Quoted message said:
Since the vegans in your statement make no effort to know if collateral deaths have occurred, how
do they attain this moral superiority?

Plurium Interrogationum. Your question has a false or disputed presupposition: that the vegans I
referred to in my statement make no effort to find out whether collateral deaths have occurred.
It was a question with a false, disputed, or question-begging presupposition. To ask such a question
is invokes a fallacy.
A "loaded question", like a loaded gun, is a dangerous thing. A loaded question is a question with
a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. The question
"Have you stopped beating your wife?" presupposes that you have beaten your wife prior to its
asking, as well as that you have a wife. If you are unmarried, or have never beaten your wife, then
the question is loaded. Since this example is a yes/no question, there are only the following two
direct answers:
1.. "Yes, I have stopped beating my wife", which entails "I was beating my wife."
2.. "No, I haven't stopped beating my wife", which entails "I am still beating my wife."
Thus, either direct answer entails that you have beaten your wife, which is, therefore, a
presupposition of the question. So, a loaded question is one which you cannot answer directly
without implying a falsehood or a statement that you deny. For this reason, the proper response to
such a question is not to answer it directly, but to either refuse to answer or to reject the
question. fallacyfiles.orgfallacyfiles.org
I reject the question.

Report
Rick Etter
Archived post

12 January 2004, 10:48 UTC #20

"Dutch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Ipse dixit" <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:

"Dutch" <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:
"Ipse dixit" wrote:
> Superior ethical vegans buy their food and goods from suppliers which may or may not have
> accrued collateral deaths while producing them
So now there are "classes" of vegans, "regular", "superior", any

others?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

No. All ethical vegans are superior, especially me.
At least we can put the old denial to rest now.. vegans DO believe they enjoy moral superiority.
Since the vegans in your statement make no effort to know if collateral deaths have occurred, how
do they attain this moral superiority?

====================
Why, just by saying it and thinking it of course, Dutch. Actions to them mean nothing, since they
actually take no actions to alliveate their contributions to animal death and suffering.

Report

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