Lock Opened With Ball Point Pen

Quoted message said:

Posting from Google, so I'm a few hours behind, forgive me if this has
already been posted.

There is a video clip posted at www.bikeforums.net showing a
Kryptonite U-lock being opened with a cheap pen.

For what it's worth, I tried this at home with two different U-locks
(neither one Kryptonite brands), and couldn't get it to work with either
one. Both of these locks take different diameter keys, neither of which
fit any of my pens very well, so this may have made a difference. I *have*
managed to pick cheap padlocks before, using a screwdriver and paper clip.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Quoted message said:

Posting from Google, so I'm a few hours behind, forgive me if this has
already been posted.

There is a video clip posted at www.bikeforums.net showing a
Kryptonite U-lock being opened with a cheap pen.

For what it's worth, I tried this at home with two different U-locks
(neither one Kryptonite brands), and couldn't get it to work with either
one. Both of these locks take different diameter keys, neither of which
fit any of my pens very well, so this may have made a difference. I *have*
managed to pick cheap padlocks before, using a screwdriver and paper clip.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Quoted message said:

Posting from Google, so I'm a few hours behind, forgive me if this has
already been posted.

There is a video clip posted at www.bikeforums.net showing a
Kryptonite U-lock being opened with a cheap pen.

For what it's worth, I tried this at home with two different U-locks
(neither one Kryptonite brands), and couldn't get it to work with either
one. Both of these locks take different diameter keys, neither of which
fit any of my pens very well, so this may have made a difference. I *have*
managed to pick cheap padlocks before, using a screwdriver and paper clip.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:36:16 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

There is a video clip posted at www.bikeforums.net showing a
Kryptonite U-lock being opened with a cheap pen.

For what it's worth, I tried this at home with two different U-locks
(neither one Kryptonite brands), and couldn't get it to work with either
one. Both of these locks take different diameter keys, neither of which
fit any of my pens very well, so this may have made a difference.

That's not to say a different diameter plastic tube won't work.

I too found it hard to believe, however with a bit of persistence, I
managed to open the NYC U-Lock sold by MEC.

Jamming the pen barrel in hard enough causes it to flare and fit.
After that it's just twist and jiggle.
It took less than fifteen seconds the third time. Sad.

I've not yet gotten it to work on the Bikeguard5 sold by Norco though
I predict that I will before day's end. I don't have a key for it
anyway.

I was thinking of the havoc one could cause at a bike rack by just
switching around peoples' locks.
--
zk

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:38:08 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:36:16 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

There is a video clip posted at www.bikeforums.net showing a
Kryptonite U-lock being opened with a cheap pen.

For what it's worth, I tried this at home with two different U-locks
(neither one Kryptonite brands), and couldn't get it to work with either
one. Both of these locks take different diameter keys, neither of which
fit any of my pens very well, so this may have made a difference.

That's not to say a different diameter plastic tube won't work.

I too found it hard to believe, however with a bit of persistence, I
managed to open the NYC U-Lock sold by MEC.

Jamming the pen barrel in hard enough causes it to flare and fit.
After that it's just twist and jiggle.
It took less than fifteen seconds the third time. Sad.

Wow, I was about to conclude this was a fake, or something.

Quoted message said:

I've not yet gotten it to work on the Bikeguard5 sold by Norco though
I predict that I will before day's end. I don't have a key for it
anyway.

What do you think the 'mechanism' is that is allowing it to work. You think
it's fitting over the post part and covering the indents, thus letting it
slide off?

Quoted message said:

I was thinking of the havoc one could cause at a bike rack by just
switching around peoples' locks.

Are you sure you're not a young whippersnapper? ;-p

-B

Zoot Katz said:

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:36:16 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

There is a video clip posted at www.bikeforums.net showing a
Kryptonite U-lock being opened with a cheap pen.

For what it's worth, I tried this at home with two different U-locks
(neither one Kryptonite brands), and couldn't get it to work with either
one. Both of these locks take different diameter keys, neither of which
fit any of my pens very well, so this may have made a difference.

That's not to say a different diameter plastic tube won't work.

I too found it hard to believe, however with a bit of persistence, I
managed to open the NYC U-Lock sold by MEC.

That's one of the locks I tried. So either I wasn't persistent enough, my
pen wasn't suitable, or I'm just no dang good at it.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Badger South said:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:38:08 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:36:16 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

> There is a video clip posted at www.bikeforums.net showing a
> Kryptonite U-lock being opened with a cheap pen.

For what it's worth, I tried this at home with two different U-locks
(neither one Kryptonite brands), and couldn't get it to work with
either one. Both of these locks take different diameter keys, neither
of which fit any of my pens very well, so this may have made a
difference.

That's not to say a different diameter plastic tube won't work.

I too found it hard to believe, however with a bit of persistence, I
managed to open the NYC U-Lock sold by MEC.

Jamming the pen barrel in hard enough causes it to flare and fit.
After that it's just twist and jiggle.
It took less than fifteen seconds the third time. Sad.

Wow, I was about to conclude this was a fake, or something.

Quoted message said:

I've not yet gotten it to work on the Bikeguard5 sold by Norco though
I predict that I will before day's end. I don't have a key for it
anyway.

What do you think the 'mechanism' is that is allowing it to work. You
think it's fitting over the post part and covering the indents, thus
letting it slide off?

I think it's the same principle as picking a regular lock: torque is
applied to the barrel, and if the pins are jiggled back and forth,
whichever one is bearing most of the force will snap into place, allowing
the barrel to turn slightly more. If you continue in this manner,
eventually all the pins will fall into the correct positions and the lock
will open. This approach can be defeated by devices such as
mushroom-shaped pins (in a regular lock), which will fall into the wrong
positions.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:49:49 -0400,
<[email hidden]>,
Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

What do you think the 'mechanism' is that is allowing it to work. You think
it's fitting over the post part and covering the indents, thus letting it
slide off?

There is a post (#332), in the bikeforums.com thread that Jym linked,
explaining how it works.

"The lock works by having a series of pins arranged in a circle
parallel to one another. Each pin has a spring behind it, and a notch
cut at some height into it. The key works by depressing each pin
exactly the right amount so that the notches line up with the collar
that is preventing the lock core from turning.

Now, why the pen works: it's the plastic and the springs. The plastic
is obviously hard enough to push against the springs, but soft enough
to deform under their pressure. Either the pins bottom out in the open
position (in which case it's just a matter of mashing the pen in hard
enough to bottom the deepest pin, and it gets mangled as the others
bottom out), or that's why the wigglin' and shakin' (you're vibrating
the pins into position, and the pen then holds them there). So, in
addition to different diameters not working, something made of a hard
plastic (like the hex-crosssection Papermate pens) probably won't
work. And something really soft (like silly putty) shouldn't work,
either."

There are also numerous posts and videos confirming the findings on
various different locks having cylindrical keys. Apparently his hack
has been known since at least 1992.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was thinking of the havoc one could cause at a bike rack by just
switching around peoples' locks.

Are you sure you're not a young whippersnapper? ;-p

I'm of the old-school prankster order.
--
zk

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:26:32 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

I too found it hard to believe, however with a bit of persistence, I
managed to open the NYC U-Lock sold by MEC.

That's one of the locks I tried. So either I wasn't persistent enough, my
pen wasn't suitable, or I'm just no dang good at it.

This pen was one of those no-name freebies.
It's got a thinner wall diameter than the brand name Bic.
I used it because it flared more easily.

I still haven't defeated the cheaper Norco lock.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:26:32 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

I too found it hard to believe, however with a bit of persistence, I
managed to open the NYC U-Lock sold by MEC.

That's one of the locks I tried. So either I wasn't persistent enough,
my pen wasn't suitable, or I'm just no dang good at it.

This pen was one of those no-name freebies.
It's got a thinner wall diameter than the brand name Bic.
I used it because it flared more easily.

I still haven't defeated the cheaper Norco lock.

It may not have helped that I was turning in the wrong direction... I'll
give it a try again later.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:52:43 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

I still haven't defeated the cheaper Norco lock.

It may not have helped that I was turning in the wrong direction... I'll
give it a try again later.

There's another post on the topic (#334) referring to two different
types of that cylinder used by Kryptonite. Perhaps these off-brand
locks which don't open have similar characteristics - either through
design or co incidently by having wider tolerances in quality control.

"A locksmith acquaintance told me that there are two different types
of lock cylinders in Krypto Barrel locks:
ACE standard--all seven pins have the same tension; and
ACE II better--different spring tensions on all 7 pins.
He thought the ACE II locks couldn't be picked this way. I put it out
to the list to try both and report back. Brian is also going to try
the Bic pen technique on the locks in his shop (I'll report his
findings back to this list). The ACE is stamped on the center part of
the lock face."
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:52:43 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

I still haven't defeated the cheaper Norco lock.

It may not have helped that I was turning in the wrong direction...
I'll give it a try again later.

There's another post on the topic (#334) referring to two different
types of that cylinder used by Kryptonite. Perhaps these off-brand
locks which don't open have similar characteristics - either through
design or co incidently by having wider tolerances in quality control.

I just successfully picked a MEC NYC lock, and then a PlanetBike "extra
guard" lock. It was easy once I got an appropriate pen, and turned it in
the proper direction.

Quoted message said:

"A locksmith acquaintance told me that there are two different types
of lock cylinders in Krypto Barrel locks:
ACE standard--all seven pins have the same tension; and
ACE II better--different spring tensions on all 7 pins.
He thought the ACE II locks couldn't be picked this way. I put it out
to the list to try both and report back. Brian is also going to try
the Bic pen technique on the locks in his shop (I'll report his
findings back to this list). The ACE is stamped on the center part of
the lock face."

I'm sure that at worst, this would make it more difficult. I'd like to try
one, though.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Benjamin Lewis said:

Zoot Katz said:

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:52:43 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

>I still haven't defeated the cheaper Norco lock.

It may not have helped that I was turning in the wrong direction...
I'll give it a try again later.

There's another post on the topic (#334) referring to two different
types of that cylinder used by Kryptonite. Perhaps these off-brand
locks which don't open have similar characteristics - either through
design or co incidently by having wider tolerances in quality control.

I just successfully picked a MEC NYC lock, and then a PlanetBike "extra
guard" lock. It was easy once I got an appropriate pen, and turned it in
the proper direction.

Is this the lock you just picked (I did not see the a "NYC lock" in MEC)

http://tinyurl.com/7ybna

I just bought this lock yesterday from MEC in Vancouver.....I may return
it if this is the case

Quoted message said:

Is this the lock you just picked (I did not see the a "NYC lock" in MEC)

http://tinyurl.com/7ybna

No, that's not one of the ones that I picked, although I would be somewhat
surprised if it didn't work on this one as well. MEC no longer appears to
carry the NYC lock that I have.

That's a fairly pricey lock, so I'd definitely consider returning it just
in case, or at least trying the pen trick yourself.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

Is this the lock you just picked (I did not see the a "NYC lock" in MEC)

http://tinyurl.com/7ybna

No, that's not one of the ones that I picked, although I would be somewhat
surprised if it didn't work on this one as well. MEC no longer appears to
carry the NYC lock that I have.

That's a fairly pricey lock, so I'd definitely consider returning it just
in case, or at least trying the pen trick yourself.

Thanks for the reply, I will try to pick this lock tonight.

One last question on the NYC lock. Now that I think of it, when I was
shopping at MEC Vancouver, I seen a very heavy chain link lock encased
in black sheathing. Is the NYC lock that you are referring to? I did
notice that this particular lock it is not on the MEC website

Regards,
Mark

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the reply, I will try to pick this lock tonight.

One last question on the NYC lock. Now that I think of it, when I was
shopping at MEC Vancouver, I seen a very heavy chain link lock encased
in black sheathing. Is the NYC lock that you are referring to? I did
notice that this particular lock it is not on the MEC website

No, this is a heavy-duty U-lock. They haven't had them in the Vancouver
MEC for a while now.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Zoot Katz said:

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:36:16 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

There is a video clip posted at www.bikeforums.net showing a
Kryptonite U-lock being opened with a cheap pen.

For what it's worth, I tried this at home with two different U-locks
(neither one Kryptonite brands), and couldn't get it to work with either
one. Both of these locks take different diameter keys, neither of which
fit any of my pens very well, so this may have made a difference.

That's not to say a different diameter plastic tube won't work.

I too found it hard to believe, however with a bit of persistence, I
managed to open the NYC U-Lock sold by MEC.

Jamming the pen barrel in hard enough causes it to flare and fit.
After that it's just twist and jiggle.
It took less than fifteen seconds the third time. Sad.

The website I looked at warned that it might possibly make the lock
inoperable.

Those of you who tried this - do your keys still work?

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:50:27 -0400, <[email hidden]>, Frank

Krygowski said:

The website I looked at warned that it might possibly make the lock
inoperable.

Those of you who tried this - do your keys still work?

Yep.
But you can't unlock it with a pen and then re lock it with the key.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:50:27 -0400, <[email hidden]>, Frank

Krygowski said:

The website I looked at warned that it might possibly make the lock
inoperable.

Those of you who tried this - do your keys still work?

Yep.
But you can't unlock it with a pen and then re lock it with the key.

.... unless you file the little metal nub off one of your keys. The key
will then still work, it will just become possible to insert it the wrong
way.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover