Loch Ness Marathon - No Shirt!

"bowerm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just came home to San Francisco area after running Baxters Loch Ness
Marathon in Inverness, Scotland...a marvelous race that I would highly
recommend to any runner who's willing to make the trip. It was my 7th
marathon in the last two years...and I was only 3 minutes too slow for
a PR. The course is as beautiful as it is brutal. Don't let anyone
tell you it's largely flat...if you're not running up you're running
down...for the most part. Organization is excellent for a three year
old race. Only trouble, for me, was that they ran out of XL tee-shirts
so I didn't get a shirt I can wear. I traveled too far and spent too
much money to run this race for that to happen. The excuse I got from
the guy handing out what shirts were left was the XL's "went really
quickly". Same thing happened to a friend of mine who made the trip
from Arizona. Not good Baxters...get it together!

I thought I'd ring the organisers on your behalf to see if anything could be
done. Sadly, the answer's no. They have medium t-shirts left and they are
on the large side but I guess you've already turned those down.

I asked about running an extra limited print run but it seems their printers
won't do anything less than 98 (don't ask me why). If you can find another
96 folk who want an XL, you might be able to pursuade them to do a reprint.

Personally, I've got too many t-shirts as it is to worry too much about
another one but I can see how if you've travelled from overseas, mementos
like these become more important.

Tim

Quoted message said:

mementos

like these become more important.
Tim
--

c'mon tim...this post does not sound like a grown man w/7 marathons under his
belt that just traveled 13,000 miles or so round trip for a marathon. he's
actually [censored] about a t-shirt?

please lord may i never reach a point in life wherein a t-shirt rises to this
level of importance in my life. ok ok ok...to each his own and some of my
values might look stupid to others i know. just ripping the guy a bit
because...i just can't believe what i am reading.

imo t-shirts don't rise to the level of "momento" status. ya give'em away,
they get washed, eventually fade and become a rag. token medals mean zip to me
as well. i don't give a [censored] about the stuff everyone gets. now if i ever
"trophy"..that's different.

Now your race bib?....that's your enduring momento worthy of framing if you
like and has a hell of a lot more personalization than a t-shirt. it won't
fade, no company wants $39 out of your wallet to engrave your name and time on
it, and no company wants $100 to dip it in bronze or whatever that [censored] is they
dip your marathon shoes in. if i have a good race, the bib gets the date &
time scribbled on it and stapled to the back of a closet door. maybe one day
they'll make a scrap book.

if i have a bad race?...a real clunker? oh..that bib gets ripped off my
singlet and trashed asap! i also consider burning the shoes too!

my mom vacationed in italy this past Summer and happend to see in person the
Rome Marathon I believe it was....she applauded the finishers...and was given
from one the metallic cape you get wrapped in at the finish. she folded it up
and brought it home to me as a token gift of some sort she thought i would be
interested in. I looked at it and said, "aaahhh
aaahhhh....well.....geee.....thanks Mom....I think".

Mom left...and just as I was about to throw it out....I folded it back up and
put it in a box of other [censored] if have to keep from dear old Mom just in case
she ask me at some later date if I still have it....

Yup...that box is a collection of ugly sweaters, snow globes, etc...

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Lanceandrew) said:

c'mon tim...this post does not sound like a grown man w/7 marathons under his
belt that just traveled 13,000 miles or so round trip for a marathon. he's
actually [censored] about a t-shirt?

please lord may i never reach a point in life wherein a t-shirt rises to this
level of importance in my life. ok ok ok...to each his own and some of my
values might look stupid to others i know. just ripping the guy a bit
because...i just can't believe what i am reading.

Here's the deal: You pay an entry fee for a race and in exchange you're
promised certain things: aid stations that have what they're supposed
to, traffic control, a T-shirt in your size, accurate timing, a
finisher's medal, cash age-group awards, naked dancers on the course,
whatever. If they don't deliver on that, you have a right to be [censored].

Now, your personal objective function might be diffferent from this
guy's. He might value shirts more, and you might value cash prizes for
age-groupers. I don't think it's fair to tell him he shouldn't be hacked
off at not getting a shirt that fits UNLESS he didn't register until a
few days before the race, since it takes a while to get the shirts
printed and presumably he told them he wanted XL when he pre-registered.

I was [censored] at my last Marathon because the first aid station was out
of gatorade when I was running 10:00 miles. There's just no excuse for
that. Thankfully, the rest of the stations were better stocked, but I
was worried for a while that all of the aid stations would be like that,
and that shouldn't be something I need to worry about.

Some race shirts I never wear. Others really mean something to me--my
Ironman finisher T-shirt, for one. These things are pretty personal, and
I don't think it's fair to say "You shouldn't feel that way."

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Quoted message said:

Here's the deal: You pay an entry fee for a race and in exchange <snip> you

have a right to be [censored].
--Harold Buck
__

i disagree. i have been in races wherein the chip/timing system malfunctioned
and none of the 4,000+ runners got their time (have no idea if trophys were
handed out in this race). unplanned things happen through quirks, acts of god,
or poor RD management. Don't you kind of weigh the enormity of the problem or
negligence and react accordingly and in proportion?

the guy travels 13,000 miles RT for the event, has 7 Marathons under his
belt...yet spends 1/3 of the content of the race report whining about a
t-shirt? c'mon...that's hilarious....

we know little if anything about the race since the report was....well....about
a "D" grade in caliber of report no? Yet we know all too well this 7-time
marathoner did not get his t-shirt? that's funny stuff.

How about some real world perspective of Marathoners that have a legitimate
right to [censored]?

2 weeks ago at the last minue the Denver mararthon was cancelled screwing lots
of people. Remember heavily sponsored '03 Washington DC Marathon? Cancelled
on numerous thousands at the very last minute with people in town & at hotels
having traveled from all over the USA and world to partake in it? Beyond the
training...some spent hundreds, others thousands of dollars to make the
event...only to have it canceled (with no refund).

I you live long enough...and you do enough things....you learn in life "balls
get dropped" despite contractual agreements. Some things don't rise to the
level of concern and certainly don't merit harboring frustration and
aggrivation over. You deal with it and move on.....(and i've learned this the
hard way).

This poster?...I would much more appreciate hearing him talking about the Loch
Ness Marathon in the context of his previous Marathons...perhaps some of his US
Marathons to gain a sense of appreciation for his accomplishment...have a
better insight and feel. And since I am from Oakland...I've probably raced
w/this guy in races (I try and do the Bay To Breakers and Wharf to Wharf
annually). Would be neat for me to hear about Loch Ness "rolling hills"
compared to the hills in those races...

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

imo t-shirts don't rise to the level of "momento" status. ya give'em
away,
they get washed, eventually fade and become a rag. token medals mean
zip to me
as well. i don't give a [censored] about the stuff everyone gets. now if
i ever
"trophy"..that's different.

Trophies are wonderful dust collecotors.

Quoted message said:

Now your race bib?....that's your enduring momento worthy of framing
if you
like and has a hell of a lot more personalization than a t-shirt.

Race bibs are great for starting fires.

Quoted message said:

if i have a good race, the bib gets the date &
time scribbled on it and stapled to the back of a closet door. maybe
one day
they'll make a scrap book.

Have you had so few good races that one door is enough? Every race that
I finish standing up and don't need an IV or trip to the ER is a good
race.

Quoted message said:

if i have a bad race?...a real clunker? oh..that bib gets ripped off
my
singlet and trashed asap! i also consider burning the shoes too!

What no charity to give the shoes? Maybe someone else can tame them.

-DougF Tongue in cheek and saves only the memories

Leafing through rec.running, I read Harold Buck's message of 19 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

Here's the deal: You pay an entry fee for a race and in exchange you're
promised certain things: aid stations that have what they're supposed
to, traffic control, a T-shirt in your size, accurate timing, a
finisher's medal, cash age-group awards, naked dancers on the course,
whatever. If they don't deliver on that, you have a right to be [censored]
off.

I agree. By contrast, I ran a 10K back on Sept. 18. Immediately upon
finishing the race I got paged from work and had to leave on an "IT
emergency." I didn't even have time to collect my t-shirt. Three days ago I
emailed the RD asking him where I could pick it up. He replied saying he
would promptly ship the t-shirt to me. Today I received my t-shirt and
along with it a trophy that said 3rd place 45-49! I didn't even know I had
won anything.

Phil M.

--
"What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John Short,
South African coach.

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Trophies are wonderful dust collecotors.

That's why I just buy mine at the trophy store. Now I'm good at everything.

Quoted message said:

Race bibs are great for starting fires.

Or for controling my drooling.

DougF

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mementos

like these become more important.
Tim
--

c'mon tim...this post does not sound like a grown man w/7 marathons under

his

Quoted message said:

belt that just traveled 13,000 miles or so round trip for a marathon.

he's

Quoted message said:

actually [censored] about a t-shirt?

*Why* the t-shirt is important to him is not my concern. I chose to try and
help because even if I don't feel the same way about t-shirts, I can at
least empathise.

Tim

(Lanceandrew) said:

Quoted message said:

Here's the deal: You pay an entry fee for a race and in exchange <snip> you

have a right to be [censored].
--Harold Buck
__

Quoted message said:

i disagree.

Good. Send me $50. I promise to send you a new pair of running shoes
of your choice, Hinds singlet, Race-Ready shorts, and a velcro bib
belt.

If you only get the bib belt, I don't want to hear you complain. It's
just poor management on my part and that's perfectly excusable.

I'm a Race Director for our club. We guarantee shirts on race day to
pre-registered and if we run out of shirts for day-of-race
registrants, we print more and mail them.

If our shirt supplier ever told us she could only print a large number
or none at all, she'd be our EX-shirt supplier in short order.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

lance...i'm so glad you responded to my post...as i wasn't aware of
how off-base my whole life-value system was. thanks for clarifying for
me what i should and shouldn't be ticked off about!

as for wondering what my accomplishments are running wise...i am 52
years old and started running marathons just two years ago. i have
done the national aids marathon training program (which ended with a
full-length marathon training run), vancouver international, tucson
marathon, portland marathon, salt lake city marathon, san francisco
marathon, and loch ness. my first race took me nearly 7 hours...loch
ness took 5:23. i've also done bay to breakers 5 times, home depot
half twice, us half twice, wharf to wharf, the jungle run (a 1/2 in
los gatos) and the santa cruz half. next i'll be doing california
international marathon (sacramento) in december and las vegas next
spring.

as for the other things YOU apparently thought i should have
posted...(after all these boards do exist to address YOUR
concerns)...loch ness course was stunningly beautiful. so much so that
it took my mind off the some of the hills...if only for a moment or
so. in my mind these "rolling" hills were much tougher than san
francisco chronicle marathon that i ran this year, setting a PR of
5:21. i was hoping to break 5:00 on the loch ness route but the hills
did me in. there's one steep, long climb at mile 18...i'd estimate
it's at least a mile long. water stops and aid stops were well-placed
and frequent...there were no big crowds of well-wishers along the
route...but the ones who did turn out were very warm and friendly.
rain clouds seems to follow us along the whole route...threatening to
break open at any time...but the rain held off til seven o'clock that
night. the pre-race expo wasn't much of an expo. only a handful of
booths belonging mostly to the charities for which many participants
were running. there was apparently some good free food at the end,
provided by baxters, the food company that sponsored the
marathon...but i didn't have any. inverness is a wonderful
city...although it pretty much shuts down at about 8pm. not a vibrant
night life...be careful here lance...i am NOT complaining about
it...nor am i [censored]...i'm just making an observation based on MY
values and expectations.

anyway, lance...to return to the t-shirt issue for a moment...i don't
know where you got the idea that i was [censored] about the
situation...i WAS annoyed (and still am, quite frankly) that after i,
in my opinion, entered into a kind of contract situation with loch
ness marathon, for my money i expected to get what i was promised. i
registered for the october race last february! so it's not like they
didn't know i was coming. they provided everything else they promised.
and i WOULD do loch ness again.

[email hidden] (Lanceandrew) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mementos

like these become more important.
Tim
--

c'mon tim...this post does not sound like a grown man w/7 marathons under his
belt that just traveled 13,000 miles or so round trip for a marathon. he's
actually [censored] about a t-shirt?

please lord may i never reach a point in life wherein a t-shirt rises to this
level of importance in my life. ok ok ok...to each his own and some of my
values might look stupid to others i know. just ripping the guy a bit
because...i just can't believe what i am reading.

imo t-shirts don't rise to the level of "momento" status. ya give'em away,
they get washed, eventually fade and become a rag. token medals mean zip to me
as well. i don't give a [censored] about the stuff everyone gets. now if i ever
"trophy"..that's different.

Now your race bib?....that's your enduring momento worthy of framing if you
like and has a hell of a lot more personalization than a t-shirt. it won't
fade, no company wants $39 out of your wallet to engrave your name and time on
it, and no company wants $100 to dip it in bronze or whatever that [censored] is they
dip your marathon shoes in. if i have a good race, the bib gets the date &
time scribbled on it and stapled to the back of a closet door. maybe one day
they'll make a scrap book.

if i have a bad race?...a real clunker? oh..that bib gets ripped off my
singlet and trashed asap! i also consider burning the shoes too!

my mom vacationed in italy this past Summer and happend to see in person the
Rome Marathon I believe it was....she applauded the finishers...and was given
from one the metallic cape you get wrapped in at the finish. she folded it up
and brought it home to me as a token gift of some sort she thought i would be
interested in. I looked at it and said, "aaahhh
aaahhhh....well.....geee.....thanks Mom....I think".

Mom left...and just as I was about to throw it out....I folded it back up and
put it in a box of other [censored] if have to keep from dear old Mom just in case
she ask me at some later date if I still have it....

Yup...that box is a collection of ugly sweaters, snow globes, etc...

"Mike Tennent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If our shirt supplier ever told us she could only print a large number
or none at all, she'd be our EX-shirt supplier in short order.

I like it. ;-)

One question though, how many t-shirts are you ordering every year?
Obviously if you're into the thousands you have a lot more clout than if
you're ordering fewer. The LN marathon is still a relatively small event
(under a 1000 finishers). How does that compare?

Tim

Tim Downie said:

"Mike Tennent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If our shirt supplier ever told us she could only print a large number
or none at all, she'd be our EX-shirt supplier in short order.

I like it. ;-)

One question though, how many t-shirts are you ordering every year?
Obviously if you're into the thousands you have a lot more clout than if
you're ordering fewer. The LN marathon is still a relatively small event
(under a 1000 finishers). How does that compare?

Tim

Our races are all under 300 people, 4 races a year. Not big numbers
at all.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tim Downie said:

"Mike Tennent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If our shirt supplier ever told us she could only print a large number
or none at all, she'd be our EX-shirt supplier in short order.

I like it. ;-)

One question though, how many t-shirts are you ordering every year?
Obviously if you're into the thousands you have a lot more clout than if
you're ordering fewer. The LN marathon is still a relatively small event
(under a 1000 finishers). How does that compare?

I've had T-shirts made up for teams and lifeguard patrols and such.
Typical deal is 24-piece minimum, with price breaks if you buy more.
There also tends to be a screen fee that you pay one time, and shouldn't
have to pay if you order more shirts a short time later if you tell them
you might need to order more so they can save the screens.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

tim - thanks for making the call. i have e-mailed the organizer and
they have not responded...yet. cheers.

"bowerm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

tim - thanks for making the call. i have e-mailed the organizer and
they have not responded...yet. cheers.

No problem. I've sent them a link to this thread and asked them to consider
some of the points Mile made. If you can shrink yourself down to a medium
I'm sure they'll be able to help you. ;-)

Tim