Litespeed QC rant

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

-Sent the frame to Litespeed ($40) with a detailed letter explaining
the problem and included measurements. Asked for a new headtube.

Why did *you* send the frame back to Litespeed? *You* have no financial
leverage with the company. The bike shop you purchased it from should be
handling all this, and then things might happen appropriately. Yes, it would
be great if every company treated every customer with a decent amount of
respect and dedication to fixing problems, but they don't. In the real
world, issues likes yours are best handled through the shop that sold you
the (apparently defective) frame in the first place. Not because they did
anything wrong, but because they're in a much better position to get the
problem taken care of. Plus, along with the sale comes a responsibility to
take care of problems that arise from that sale. If I had sold that bike or
frame, I'd *want* to get it taken care of for the customer.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Technically, I sent it to the bike shop (in TN) who then brought it to
Litespeed. So the shop was involved.

Jay

Ozark Bicycle said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

On Jun 14, 7:06 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 14, 7:14 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
> > proven

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Till it cracks. And fails.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

....and the "Lifetime Warranty" doesn't apply because the failure was
"normal wear and tear"!

Quoted message said:

frame broke-life over!!

Ain't that the truth! Catch 22: "Your Cannondale frame has a Lifetime
Warranty - until it breaks".- Hide quoted text -

What are you smoking? I've broken four Cannondales, and except for
one that was 21 years old and beaten to death (ultimately cracked all
the way around the down tube -- hair raising, but it held on until I
got off), I got free -- again, free -- replacements.

Now, with the three steel frames I broke, yes, I could and did re-
braze those -- and then spent $150 getting a powder-coat (i.e. cheap)
paint job. I also ended up with the same frame instead of something
10 years newer (as was the case of a 2.8 frame I broke and replaced a
few years ago).

I was [censored] at Cannondale for not replacing my 21 year old, second
generation frame because they had generously replaced everyting else I
had broken -- even a broken 1984 first-generation that I ripped the
derailleur hanger off in a mishap involving a broken spoke (that's how
I got the frame they would not replace). But really, the thing was
spent. I broke two of those stupid cantilevered-stay 2.8 frames after
only a few years. Bad design, and Cannondale knew it, so replacement
was a breeze. I still have a 1987 T1000. 20 years of abuse, and its
still going. -- Jay Beattie.

jim beam said:

Bill Sornson said:

Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
proven

Quoted message said:

Till it cracks. And fails.

have /you/ seen any cracked and failed cannondales?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 14, 3:35 pm, "Bjorn A. Payne Diaz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

{snip}- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, but I have heard alot of them creak loudly from the bottom bracket
area. I always wondered whether or not they were in fact cracked but
not completly failed. Not my bike and the owners get real sensitive
about it if I bring it up.

Chris

Jay Beattie said:

On Jun 15, 6:17 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Jun 15, 7:44 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 14, 7:06 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Jun 14, 7:14 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
> > > proven

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Till it cracks. And fails.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ....and the "Lifetime Warranty" doesn't apply because the failure was
> "normal wear and tear"!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

frame broke-life over!!

Quoted message said:

Ain't that the truth! Catch 22: "Your Cannondale frame has a Lifetime
Warranty - until it breaks".- Hide quoted text -

What are you smoking?

You need to get out more, Jay. Fact is, C'dale *did* try to
"stonewall" quite a few owners of Crack 'n' Fails. Yes, alot of it was
years ago, in the era of those cantilevered designs. But still....

Also, read the C'dale "lifetime" warranty statement which comes with
current product.

And, yes, the old, original C'dales were pretty bulletproof. And
nothing I wrote had anything at all to do with aluminum frames in
general or with a comparison between aluminum v. steel.

Quoted message said:

I've broken four Cannondales, and except for
one that was 21 years old and beaten to death (ultimately cracked all
the way around the down tube -- hair raising, but it held on until I
got off), I got free -- again, free -- replacements.

Now, with the three steel frames I broke, yes, I could and did re-
braze those -- and then spent $150 getting a powder-coat (i.e. cheap)
paint job. I also ended up with the same frame instead of something
10 years newer (as was the case of a 2.8 frame I broke and replaced a
few years ago).

I was [censored] at Cannondale for not replacing my 21 year old, second
generation frame because they had generously replaced everyting else I
had broken -- even a broken 1984 first-generation that I ripped the
derailleur hanger off in a mishap involving a broken spoke (that's how
I got the frame they would not replace). But really, the thing was
spent. I broke two of those stupid cantilevered-stay 2.8 frames after
only a few years. Bad design, and Cannondale knew it, so replacement
was a breeze. I still have a 1987 T1000. 20 years of abuse, and its
still going. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ozark Bicycle said:

Jay Beattie said:

On Jun 15, 6:17 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 15, 7:44 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jun 14, 7:06 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > On Jun 14, 7:14 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
> > > > proven

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > Till it cracks. And fails.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > ....and the "Lifetime Warranty" doesn't apply because the failure was
> > "normal wear and tear"!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> frame broke-life over!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ain't that the truth! Catch 22: "Your Cannondale frame has a Lifetime
Warranty - until it breaks".- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

What are you smoking?

You need to get out more, Jay. Fact is, C'dale *did* try to
"stonewall" quite a few owners of Crack 'n' Fails. Yes, alot of it was
years ago, in the era of those cantilevered designs. But still....

Also, read the C'dale "lifetime" warranty statement which comes with
current product.

It is pretty typical with exclusions for normal wear and tear. The
exclusion for "fatigue" is worrisome since you can have low-cycle
fatigue failure if the frame is under-built or mis-designed. That's
probably one of those terms that the sales rep has to "interpret" in
particular cases. With my bikes, the cracks were caused by fatigue at
a stress riser created by Cannondale -- a crimped seat stay just above
the cantilevered drop out.

And let me say that I am not an appologist for Cannondale. I did not
like the way I was treated the last time around by the sales rep. I
also got the impression that Cannondale does not give its dealers much
latitude in determining what should be handled as warranty work. From
what I know of Trek, the dealers have much more say in what will be
treated as warranty repair or replacement -- which builds customer
loyalty to the shop and to the brand. -- Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie said:

On Jun 15, 3:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Jun 15, 2:10 pm, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 15, 6:17 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 7:44 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On Jun 14, 7:06 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > On Jun 14, 7:14 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
> > > > > proven

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > Till it cracks. And fails.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > ....and the "Lifetime Warranty" doesn't apply because the failure was
> > > "normal wear and tear"!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > frame broke-life over!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Ain't that the truth! Catch 22: "Your Cannondale frame has a Lifetime
> Warranty - until it breaks".- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are you smoking?

Quoted message said:

You need to get out more, Jay. Fact is, C'dale *did* try to
"stonewall" quite a few owners of Crack 'n' Fails. Yes, alot of it was
years ago, in the era of those cantilevered designs. But still....

Quoted message said:

Also, read the C'dale "lifetime" warranty statement which comes with
current product.

It is pretty typical with exclusions for normal wear and tear. The
exclusion for "fatigue" is worrisome since you can have low-cycle
fatigue failure if the frame is under-built or mis-designed.

I especially like the "fine print" verbiage that applies to their
racing frames, excerpted here: "You must understand that Optimo bikes
are intended to give [...] a performance advantage over a relatively
short product life." and "Please understand that you are choosing
light weight and a shorter frame life...."

Yet, these bikes are still sold on the shop floor as having a
"lifetime warranty"! If you doubt that, go to a C'dale dealer where
you are not known and shop around.

Read the whole wretched mess here:

http://tinyurl.com/35n748

Quoted message said:

That's
probably one of those terms that the sales rep has to "interpret" in
particular cases. With my bikes, the cracks were caused by fatigue at
a stress riser created by Cannondale -- a crimped seat stay just above
the cantilevered drop out.

And let me say that I am not an appologist for Cannondale. I did not
like the way I was treated the last time around by the sales rep. I
also got the impression that Cannondale does not give its dealers much
latitude in determining what should be handled as warranty work. From
what I know of Trek, the dealers have much more say in what will be
treated as warranty repair or replacement -- which builds customer
loyalty to the shop and to the brand. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ozark Bicycle said:

Jay Beattie said:

On Jun 15, 3:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 15, 2:10 pm, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jun 15, 6:17 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > On Jun 15, 7:44 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > On Jun 14, 7:06 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 14, 7:14 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
> > > > > > proven

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > Till it cracks. And fails.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > ....and the "Lifetime Warranty" doesn't apply because the failure was
> > > > "normal wear and tear"!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > frame broke-life over!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Ain't that the truth! Catch 22: "Your Cannondale frame has a Lifetime
> > Warranty - until it breaks".- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> What are you smoking?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You need to get out more, Jay. Fact is, C'dale *did* try to
"stonewall" quite a few owners of Crack 'n' Fails. Yes, alot of it was
years ago, in the era of those cantilevered designs. But still....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, read the C'dale "lifetime" warranty statement which comes with
current product.

Quoted message said:

It is pretty typical with exclusions for normal wear and tear. The
exclusion for "fatigue" is worrisome since you can have low-cycle
fatigue failure if the frame is under-built or mis-designed.

I especially like the "fine print" verbiage that applies to their
racing frames, excerpted here: "You must understand that Optimo bikes
are intended to give [...] a performance advantage over a relatively
short product life." and "Please understand that you are choosing
light weight and a shorter frame life...."

Yet, these bikes are still sold on the shop floor as having a
"lifetime warranty"! If you doubt that, go to a C'dale dealer where
you are not known and shop around.

Read the whole wretched mess here:

http://tinyurl.com/35n748

Quoted message said:

That's
probably one of those terms that the sales rep has to "interpret" in
particular cases. With my bikes, the cracks were caused by fatigue at
a stress riser created by Cannondale -- a crimped seat stay just above
the cantilevered drop out.

Quoted message said:

And let me say that I am not an appologist for Cannondale. I did not
like the way I was treated the last time around by the sales rep. I
also got the impression that Cannondale does not give its dealers much
latitude in determining what should be handled as warranty work. From
what I know of Trek, the dealers have much more say in what will be
treated as warranty repair or replacement -- which builds customer
loyalty to the shop and to the brand. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is great!

I like the part in the boxed Warning section thar states:

"The tubing is thin and can be easily dented. Owners must use care in
handling and transporting the frame. Thw top tube is particularly
vulnerable to dents. Let it fall against a post or other bike, you may
dent it. If the handlebars spin around and strike the top tube, you
may dent it."

Some more snipped and then in bold caps:

"FAILURE TO INSPECT A FRAME AND STOP RIDING IT WHEN A CRACK OR DENT IS
FOUND COULD LEAD TO A COMPLETE FRAME FAILURE, WITH RISK OF SERIOUS
INJURY, PARALYSIS OR DEATH."

It seems like some bicycles are built stupidly light for every day
use.

Cheers from Peter

Sir Ridesalot said:

On Jun 15, 9:47 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Jun 15, 7:32 pm, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 15, 3:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 2:10 pm, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On Jun 15, 6:17 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > On Jun 15, 7:44 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > On Jun 14, 7:06 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > > > On Jun 14, 7:14 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > > Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
> > > > > > > proven

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > Till it cracks. And fails.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > ....and the "Lifetime Warranty" doesn't apply because the failure was
> > > > > "normal wear and tear"!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > frame broke-life over!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > Ain't that the truth! Catch 22: "Your Cannondale frame has a Lifetime
> > > Warranty - until it breaks".- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > What are you smoking?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> You need to get out more, Jay. Fact is, C'dale *did* try to
> "stonewall" quite a few owners of Crack 'n' Fails. Yes, alot of it was
> years ago, in the era of those cantilevered designs. But still....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Also, read the C'dale "lifetime" warranty statement which comes with
> current product.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is pretty typical with exclusions for normal wear and tear. The
exclusion for "fatigue" is worrisome since you can have low-cycle
fatigue failure if the frame is under-built or mis-designed.

Quoted message said:

I especially like the "fine print" verbiage that applies to their
racing frames, excerpted here: "You must understand that Optimo bikes
are intended to give [...] a performance advantage over a relatively
short product life." and "Please understand that you are choosing
light weight and a shorter frame life...."

Quoted message said:

Yet, these bikes are still sold on the shop floor as having a
"lifetime warranty"! If you doubt that, go to a C'dale dealer where
you are not known and shop around.

Quoted message said:

Read the whole wretched mess here:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/35n748

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's
probably one of those terms that the sales rep has to "interpret" in
particular cases. With my bikes, the cracks were caused by fatigue at
a stress riser created by Cannondale -- a crimped seat stay just above
the cantilevered drop out.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And let me say that I am not an appologist for Cannondale. I did not
like the way I was treated the last time around by the sales rep. I
also got the impression that Cannondale does not give its dealers much
latitude in determining what should be handled as warranty work. From
what I know of Trek, the dealers have much more say in what will be
treated as warranty repair or replacement -- which builds customer
loyalty to the shop and to the brand. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

That is great!

I like the part in the boxed Warning section thar states:

"The tubing is thin and can be easily dented. Owners must use care in
handling and transporting the frame. Thw top tube is particularly
vulnerable to dents. Let it fall against a post or other bike, you may
dent it. If the handlebars spin around and strike the top tube, you
may dent it."

Some more snipped and then in bold caps:

"FAILURE TO INSPECT A FRAME AND STOP RIDING IT WHEN A CRACK OR DENT IS
FOUND COULD LEAD TO A COMPLETE FRAME FAILURE, WITH RISK OF SERIOUS
INJURY, PARALYSIS OR DEATH."

It seems like some bicycles are built stupidly light for every day
use.

Indeed. And, I wonder, how many *recreational* riders would buy those
bikes if they read "the fine print" first?

Somewhere on the 'net, someone has (or had) posted pictures of a
C'dale racing frame that literally 'came apart' (an understatement)
after crashing during an event. If you're interested in seeing them,
try google.

So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
ultra high end frames. Any of the C'dale bikes that the majority of
people ride are lifetime warranty. I have a 10 year old CAAD2 MTB
that I do not hesotate to ride as hard as I did when it was new.
Other than some paint dings and scratches its fine.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Sir Ridesalot said:

On Jun 15, 9:47 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 15, 7:32 pm, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jun 15, 3:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > On Jun 15, 2:10 pm, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > On Jun 15, 6:17 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 15, 7:44 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > On Jun 14, 7:06 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jun 14, 7:14 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > > Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > > > Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
> > > > > > > > proven

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > > Till it cracks. And fails.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > ....and the "Lifetime Warranty" doesn't apply because the failure was
> > > > > > "normal wear and tear"!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > frame broke-life over!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > Ain't that the truth! Catch 22: "Your Cannondale frame has a Lifetime
> > > > Warranty - until it breaks".- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > What are you smoking?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > You need to get out more, Jay. Fact is, C'dale *did* try to
> > "stonewall" quite a few owners of Crack 'n' Fails. Yes, alot of it was
> > years ago, in the era of those cantilevered designs. But still....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Also, read the C'dale "lifetime" warranty statement which comes with
> > current product.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> It is pretty typical with exclusions for normal wear and tear. The
> exclusion for "fatigue" is worrisome since you can have low-cycle
> fatigue failure if the frame is under-built or mis-designed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I especially like the "fine print" verbiage that applies to their
racing frames, excerpted here: "You must understand that Optimo bikes
are intended to give [...] a performance advantage over a relatively
short product life." and "Please understand that you are choosing
light weight and a shorter frame life...."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yet, these bikes are still sold on the shop floor as having a
"lifetime warranty"! If you doubt that, go to a C'dale dealer where
you are not known and shop around.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Read the whole wretched mess here:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/35n748

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> That's
> probably one of those terms that the sales rep has to "interpret" in
> particular cases. With my bikes, the cracks were caused by fatigue at
> a stress riser created by Cannondale -- a crimped seat stay just above
> the cantilevered drop out.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> And let me say that I am not an appologist for Cannondale. I did not
> like the way I was treated the last time around by the sales rep. I
> also got the impression that Cannondale does not give its dealers much
> latitude in determining what should be handled as warranty work. From
> what I know of Trek, the dealers have much more say in what will be
> treated as warranty repair or replacement -- which builds customer
> loyalty to the shop and to the brand. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

That is great!

Quoted message said:

I like the part in the boxed Warning section thar states:

Quoted message said:

"The tubing is thin and can be easily dented. Owners must use care in
handling and transporting the frame. Thw top tube is particularly
vulnerable to dents. Let it fall against a post or other bike, you may
dent it. If the handlebars spin around and strike the top tube, you
may dent it."

Quoted message said:

Some more snipped and then in bold caps:

Quoted message said:

"FAILURE TO INSPECT A FRAME AND STOP RIDING IT WHEN A CRACK OR DENT IS
FOUND COULD LEAD TO A COMPLETE FRAME FAILURE, WITH RISK OF SERIOUS
INJURY, PARALYSIS OR DEATH."

Quoted message said:

It seems like some bicycles are built stupidly light for every day
use.

Indeed. And, I wonder, how many *recreational* riders would buy those
bikes if they read "the fine print" first?

Somewhere on the 'net, someone has (or had) posted pictures of a
C'dale racing frame that literally 'came apart' (an understatement)
after crashing during an event. If you're interested in seeing them,
try google.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Chris Nelson said:

jim beam said:

Bill Sornson said:

Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:
> Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
> proven
Till it cracks. And fails.

have /you/ seen any cracked and failed cannondales?

Quoted message said:

> On Jun 14, 3:35 pm, "Bjorn A. Payne Diaz" <[email hidden]>
{snip}- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, but I have heard alot of them creak loudly from the bottom bracket
area. I always wondered whether or not they were in fact cracked but
not completly failed. Not my bike and the owners get real sensitive
about it if I bring it up.

Chris

interesting you say that. while it was comfy and rode very well, i
ended up selling my cannondale for two reasons.

1. because it was made flexy at the rear for comfort, it would also bend
too much when honking up hills and the wheels would rub, even if i had
the brake q.r. full open. not good.

2. the bb threading was so loose, it was ridiculous. while it was
silent because it was greased, i can see no way this thing was going to
stay well behaved when subject to any serious mileage.

i suspect this last may be the case with many cannondales and explain
the creaking you cite. i suspect it's because some bright spark figured
it may reduce thread binding when installing aluminum shimano bb cups.
but the real solution is e.p. grease, not loose threads.

jim beam said:

Chris Nelson said:

jim beam said:

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:
>> Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
>> proven
> Till it cracks. And fails.
have /you/ seen any cracked and failed cannondales?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> On Jun 14, 3:35 pm, "Bjorn A. Payne Diaz" <[email hidden]>
> {snip}- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

No, but I have heard alot of them creak loudly from the bottom bracket
area. I always wondered whether or not they were in fact cracked but
not completly failed. Not my bike and the owners get real sensitive
about it if I bring it up.

Quoted message said:

Chris

interesting you say that. while it was comfy and rode very well, i
ended up selling my cannondale for two reasons.

1. because it was made flexy at the rear for comfort, it would also bend
too much when honking up hills and the wheels would rub, even if i had
the brake q.r. full open. not good.

2. the bb threading was so loose, it was ridiculous. while it was
silent because it was greased, i can see no way this thing was going to
stay well behaved when subject to any serious mileage.

i suspect this last may be the case with many cannondales and explain
the creaking you cite. i suspect it's because some bright spark figured
it may reduce thread binding when installing aluminum shimano bb cups.
but the real solution is e.p. grease, not loose threads.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We used to joke that they should pour motor oil down the seat tube and
use the seat post as a dipstick to keep those things quiet on a steady
basis. Everyone though it was funny except the owner.

Chris

Quoted message said:

So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
ultra high end frames.

Balderdash...take a look at some of the rigs doe 'Ride the
Rockies'...some would make a pro euro racer green with envy..900 gram
frames, $3000++ wheelsets, $1000 cranksets, $500 brakesets...carbon
stems, SP, hbars...titanium pedals, etc...for some guy that 'may'
weigh in at 180 to 200 pounds.
I had a gent the other day, Merckx, Zipp tubular wheels, completely
kitted out as a Mapai racer-dude, with a flat...he didn't know what
a tubular was..wanted me to 'repoair his flat'..when i took him thru
the tubular replace routine, he honestly didn't know ehat I was
talking about.

Any of the C'dale bikes that the majority of

Quoted message said:

people ride are lifetime warranty. I have a 10 year old CAAD2 MTB
that I do not hesotate to ride as hard as I did when it was new.
Other than some paint dings and scratches its fine.

On Jun 16, 8:06 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Jun 16, 4:12 am, Sir Ridesalot <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 15, 9:47 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 7:32 pm, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On Jun 15, 3:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > On Jun 15, 2:10 pm, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > On Jun 15, 6:17 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > > > On Jun 15, 7:44 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > On Jun 14, 7:06 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jun 14, 7:14 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > > > Little Jimmy Buttpacker ([email hidden]) top-posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > > > > Should have bought a Cannondale- Handmade in USA- world championship
> > > > > > > > > proven

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > > > Till it cracks. And fails.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > > ....and the "Lifetime Warranty" doesn't apply because the failure was
> > > > > > > "normal wear and tear"!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > > frame broke-life over!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > Ain't that the truth! Catch 22: "Your Cannondale frame has a Lifetime
> > > > > Warranty - until it breaks".- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > What are you smoking?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > You need to get out more, Jay. Fact is, C'dale *did* try to
> > > "stonewall" quite a few owners of Crack 'n' Fails. Yes, alot of it was
> > > years ago, in the era of those cantilevered designs. But still....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > Also, read the C'dale "lifetime" warranty statement which comes with
> > > current product.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > It is pretty typical with exclusions for normal wear and tear. The
> > exclusion for "fatigue" is worrisome since you can have low-cycle
> > fatigue failure if the frame is under-built or mis-designed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I especially like the "fine print" verbiage that applies to their
> racing frames, excerpted here: "You must understand that Optimo bikes
> are intended to give [...] a performance advantage over a relatively
> short product life." and "Please understand that you are choosing
> light weight and a shorter frame life...."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Yet, these bikes are still sold on the shop floor as having a
> "lifetime warranty"! If you doubt that, go to a C'dale dealer where
> you are not known and shop around.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Read the whole wretched mess here:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://tinyurl.com/35n748

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > That's
> > probably one of those terms that the sales rep has to "interpret" in
> > particular cases. With my bikes, the cracks were caused by fatigue at
> > a stress riser created by Cannondale -- a crimped seat stay just above
> > the cantilevered drop out.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > And let me say that I am not an appologist for Cannondale. I did not
> > like the way I was treated the last time around by the sales rep. I
> > also got the impression that Cannondale does not give its dealers much
> > latitude in determining what should be handled as warranty work. From
> > what I know of Trek, the dealers have much more say in what will be
> > treated as warranty repair or replacement -- which builds customer
> > loyalty to the shop and to the brand. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

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> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

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> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

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> - Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is great!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I like the part in the boxed Warning section thar states:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"The tubing is thin and can be easily dented. Owners must use care in
handling and transporting the frame. Thw top tube is particularly
vulnerable to dents. Let it fall against a post or other bike, you may
dent it. If the handlebars spin around and strike the top tube, you
may dent it."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some more snipped and then in bold caps:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"FAILURE TO INSPECT A FRAME AND STOP RIDING IT WHEN A CRACK OR DENT IS
FOUND COULD LEAD TO A COMPLETE FRAME FAILURE, WITH RISK OF SERIOUS
INJURY, PARALYSIS OR DEATH."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It seems like some bicycles are built stupidly light for every day
use.

Quoted message said:

Indeed. And, I wonder, how many *recreational* riders would buy those
bikes if they read "the fine print" first?

Quoted message said:

Somewhere on the 'net, someone has (or had) posted pictures of a
C'dale racing frame that literally 'came apart' (an understatement)
after crashing during an event. If you're interested in seeing them,
try google.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:

Big Jim Backpacker said:

So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
ultra high end frames.

Balderdash...take a look at some of the rigs doe 'Ride the
Rockies'...some would make a pro euro racer green with envy..900 gram
frames, $3000++ wheelsets, $1000 cranksets, $500 brakesets...carbon
stems, SP, hbars...titanium pedals, etc...for some guy that 'may'
weigh in at 180 to 200 pounds....

And a bike that is no more fun to ride than a TIG welded 4130 CroMo
frame with mid-level Campy, Shimano or SRAM components, at one-fifth
the price.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Johnny Sunset said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:

Big Jim Backpacker said:

So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
ultra high end frames.

Balderdash...take a look at some of the rigs doe 'Ride the
Rockies'...some would make a pro euro racer green with envy..900 gram
frames, $3000++ wheelsets, $1000 cranksets, $500 brakesets...carbon
stems, SP, hbars...titanium pedals, etc...for some guy that 'may'
weigh in at 180 to 200 pounds....

And a bike that is no more fun to ride than a TIG welded 4130 CroMo
frame with mid-level Campy, Shimano or SRAM components, at one-fifth
the price.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

i dunno dude. any bike can be fun if it's set up right. but some of
the elite stuff, while not something you want to ride everyday, can be
pretty damned sweet.

but here's my real question: what is it about r.b.t'ers that gives them
the right to be so critical of stuff most of them have never ridden? do
they also hang out on rec.autos.makers.porsche and bleat about cars they
don't own and don't drive? it just boils down to irritation for the
"haves" and frustration for the "have nots". neither benefit. quit
whining and move on. and if you wrench, nod, smile and take the money -
there's plenty more there where that came from.

jim beam said:

Johnny Sunset said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:

On Jun 16, 9:18 am, "Big Jim Backpacker" wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
> gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
> makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
> Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
> just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
> ultra high end frames.
Balderdash...take a look at some of the rigs doe 'Ride the
Rockies'...some would make a pro euro racer green with envy..900 gram
frames, $3000++ wheelsets, $1000 cranksets, $500 brakesets...carbon
stems, SP, hbars...titanium pedals, etc...for some guy that 'may'
weigh in at 180 to 200 pounds....

Quoted message said:

And a bike that is no more fun to ride than a TIG welded 4130 CroMo
frame with mid-level Campy, Shimano or SRAM components, at one-fifth
the price.

Quoted message said:

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

i dunno dude. any bike can be fun if it's set up right. but some of
the elite stuff, while not something you want to ride everyday, can be
pretty damned sweet.

but here's my real question: what is it about r.b.t'ers that gives them
the right to be so critical of stuff most of them have never ridden?

Engineering judgment (something the material scientist appears to
lack) allows one to see lack of advantages for the greater cost and
the detriments of these "boutique" items with riding a bicycle
equipped with them.

Quoted message said:

do they also hang out on rec.autos.makers.porsche and bleat about cars they
don't own and don't drive?

Glorified VW's descended from Tatras?

Quoted message said:

it just boils down to irritation for the
"haves" and frustration for the "have nots". neither benefit. quit
whining and move on. and if you wrench, nod, smile and take the money -
there's plenty more there where that came from.

Some people have no need to compensate for personal inadequacies (real
or imagined) with show-off bling. Leave that to Fabrizio Mazzoleni and
his ilk.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Johnny Sunset said:

jim beam said:

Johnny Sunset said:

On Jun 17, 8:06 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> On Jun 16, 9:18 am, "Big Jim Backpacker" wrote:
>> So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
>> gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
>> makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
>> Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
>> just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
>> ultra high end frames.
> Balderdash...take a look at some of the rigs doe 'Ride the
> Rockies'...some would make a pro euro racer green with envy..900 gram
> frames, $3000++ wheelsets, $1000 cranksets, $500 brakesets...carbon
> stems, SP, hbars...titanium pedals, etc...for some guy that 'may'
> weigh in at 180 to 200 pounds....
And a bike that is no more fun to ride than a TIG welded 4130 CroMo
frame with mid-level Campy, Shimano or SRAM components, at one-fifth
the price.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

i dunno dude. any bike can be fun if it's set up right. but some of
the elite stuff, while not something you want to ride everyday, can be
pretty damned sweet.

but here's my real question: what is it about r.b.t'ers that gives them
the right to be so critical of stuff most of them have never ridden?

Engineering judgment (something the material scientist appears to
lack)

what, like engineers that confuse increasing spoke tension with
increasing strength you mean? or using a dye penetrant test to "prove"
that anodizing is the "cause" of rim cracking?

Quoted message said:

allows one to see lack of advantages for the greater cost and
the detriments

eh? detriments? what detriments? only possible disadvantage is where
the lbs doesn't carry parts. but with straight pull spokes for example,
you're much less likely to need them.

Quoted message said:

of these "boutique" items with riding a bicycle
equipped with them.

Quoted message said:

do they also hang out on rec.autos.makers.porsche and bleat about cars they
don't own and don't drive?

Glorified VW's descended from Tatras?

er, the example is that they're exclusive and expensive and not owned
and driven by the average taurus family. just like traditional wheels
and the more expensive boutiques.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it just boils down to irritation for the
"haves" and frustration for the "have nots". neither benefit. quit
whining and move on. and if you wrench, nod, smile and take the money -
there's plenty more there where that came from.

Some people have no need to compensate for personal inadequacies (real
or imagined) with show-off bling. Leave that to Fabrizio Mazzoleni and
his ilk.

and others excrete their inadequacy by criticizing what they themselves
can't attain.

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
ultra high end frames.

Balderdash...take a look at some of the rigs doe 'Ride the
Rockies'...some would make a pro euro racer green with envy..900 gram
frames, $3000++ wheelsets, $1000 cranksets, $500 brakesets...carbon
stems, SP, hbars...titanium pedals, etc...for some guy that 'may'
weigh in at 180 to 200 pounds.

Your comment about envy is spot on. Here, a club racer (a racer who rides
for a club, in a pretty strict sense) get his bike free. Typically, it is
an alu frame, Veloce group, standard rims on Veloce hubs, and he is free to
choose a saddle pedals and shoes. That way, racing is supported by
manufacturers, local sponsors, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

The kids go pretty fast, anyway. If they're good, they move up by
invitation to a stronger club, onwards to nationals, then to pro teams.
Even at Elite 2 pro, the most frequent groups are Centaur and Ultegra, with
factory wheels. Perhaps being in a different cycling culture means our
stores are pretty familiar with the wheels you don't like, but it is now
rare to be able to buy custom wheels (even like the Veloce/CXP22). Those
have become a little of a luxury item, as no one wants to work here, so they
charge high to avoid it. You get lucky if a club member wants to make some
money and builds a bunch of wheels, some for the club and some for resale.
--
Sandy
--
S'endormir au volant, c'est très dangereux.
S'endormir à vélo, c'est très rare.
S'endormir à pied, c'est très con.
- Geluck, P.

jim beam said:

Johnny Sunset said:

jim beam said:

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 17, 8:06 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
>> On Jun 16, 9:18 am, "Big Jim Backpacker" wrote:
>>> So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
>>> gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
>>> makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
>>> Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
>>> just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
>>> ultra high end frames.
>> Balderdash...take a look at some of the rigs doe 'Ride the
>> Rockies'...some would make a pro euro racer green with envy..900 gram
>> frames, $3000++ wheelsets, $1000 cranksets, $500 brakesets...carbon
>> stems, SP, hbars...titanium pedals, etc...for some guy that 'may'
>> weigh in at 180 to 200 pounds....
> And a bike that is no more fun to ride than a TIG welded 4130 CroMo
> frame with mid-level Campy, Shimano or SRAM components, at one-fifth
> the price.
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
i dunno dude. any bike can be fun if it's set up right. but some of
the elite stuff, while not something you want to ride everyday, can be
pretty damned sweet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but here's my real question: what is it about r.b.t'ers that gives them
the right to be so critical of stuff most of them have never ridden?

Quoted message said:

Engineering judgment (something the material scientist appears to
lack)

what, like engineers that confuse increasing spoke tension with
increasing strength you mean? or using a dye penetrant test to "prove"
that anodizing is the "cause" of rim cracking?

Tell us what Jobst in real life did to offend you so badly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

allows one to see lack of advantages for the greater cost and
the detriments

eh? detriments? what detriments? only possible disadvantage is where
the lbs doesn't carry parts. but with straight pull spokes for example,
you're much less likely to need them.

Higher cost without a weight, aerodynamic or durability advantage
looks like a detriment to me. Oh wait, I forgot the BLING FACTOR for
when the bike is parked at the foo foo coffee shop.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of these "boutique" items with riding a bicycle
equipped with them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do they also hang out on rec.autos.makers.porsche and bleat about cars they
don't own and don't drive?

Quoted message said:

Glorified VW's descended from Tatras?

er, the example is that they're exclusive and expensive and not owned
and driven by the average taurus family. just like traditional wheels
and the more expensive boutiques.

I would rather drive a Taurus than a Porsche. No unwelcome attention
from traffic cops, thieves and gold-diggers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it just boils down to irritation for the
"haves" and frustration for the "have nots". neither benefit. quit
whining and move on. and if you wrench, nod, smile and take the money -
there's plenty more there where that came from.

Quoted message said:

Some people have no need to compensate for personal inadequacies (real
or imagined) with show-off bling. Leave that to Fabrizio Mazzoleni and
his ilk.

and others excrete their inadequacy by criticizing what they themselves
can't attain.

For the price of the bikes and trikes in my apartment, I could have a
high-end carbon fiber composite road bike with the latest stupid light
boutique parts (including wheels). I could also purchase such a bike
without selling anything, and still be able to pay my bills. So just
how does jealousy fit in?

Hell, I even have a computer keyboard with CAPITAL LETTERS!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

jim beam said:

Johnny Sunset said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:

On Jun 16, 9:18 am, "Big Jim Backpacker" wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
> gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
> makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
> Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
> just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
> ultra high end frames.
Balderdash...take a look at some of the rigs doe 'Ride the
Rockies'...some would make a pro euro racer green with envy..900 gram
frames, $3000++ wheelsets, $1000 cranksets, $500 brakesets...carbon
stems, SP, hbars...titanium pedals, etc...for some guy that 'may'
weigh in at 180 to 200 pounds....

Quoted message said:

And a bike that is no more fun to ride than a TIG welded 4130 CroMo
frame with mid-level Campy, Shimano or SRAM components, at one-fifth
the price.

Quoted message said:

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

i dunno dude. any bike can be fun if it's set up right. but some of
the elite stuff, while not something you want to ride everyday, can be
pretty damned sweet.

but here's my real question: what is it about r.b.t'ers that gives them
the right to be so critical of stuff most of them have never ridden? do
they also hang out on rec.autos.makers.porsche and bleat about cars they
don't own and don't drive? it just boils down to irritation for the
"haves" and frustration for the "have nots". neither benefit. quit
whining and move on. and if you wrench, nod, smile and take the money -
there's plenty more there where that came from.- Hide quoted text -

This group hates poseurs. I hate poseurs, too, but I am not going
burn crosses on their lawns (I would, but I can't get in to their
gated communities).

We have a quasi-Marxist thing going on this group -- to each based on
his needs. The people who own the ultra-bling bicycles don't need
them. Grrrrrr. I hate them! Off with their heads! (Enter townsfolks
with pitchforks).

I need my proletariat Cannondale CAD3 with low-bling components to
lessen the pain when riding with my still-racing buddies. I fear,
though, that the Bolsheviks will make me ride a 4130 TIG-welded frame.
It is just as much fun, I am told. Soma frames? Yes, Soma, that will
make me feel good.-- "Jay the Savage" Beattie.

Jay Beattie said:

jim beam said:

Johnny Sunset said:

On Jun 17, 8:06 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> On Jun 16, 9:18 am, "Big Jim Backpacker" wrote:
>> So- a racing frame broke- IN A CRASH!!!!! If a steel downhill rig
>> gets run over by a semi I bet it wont be ride worthy either . Any
>> makers' ultra light race frames are not designed for durability.
>> Bianchi has a limited warranty on some frames and lifetime on others
>> just like most makers. REcreational riders arent likely to buy the
>> ultra high end frames.
> Balderdash...take a look at some of the rigs doe 'Ride the
> Rockies'...some would make a pro euro racer green with envy..900 gram
> frames, $3000++ wheelsets, $1000 cranksets, $500 brakesets...carbon
> stems, SP, hbars...titanium pedals, etc...for some guy that 'may'
> weigh in at 180 to 200 pounds....
And a bike that is no more fun to ride than a TIG welded 4130 CroMo
frame with mid-level Campy, Shimano or SRAM components, at one-fifth
the price.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

i dunno dude. any bike can be fun if it's set up right. but some of
the elite stuff, while not something you want to ride everyday, can be
pretty damned sweet.

but here's my real question: what is it about r.b.t'ers that gives them
the right to be so critical of stuff most of them have never ridden? do
they also hang out on rec.autos.makers.porsche and bleat about cars they
don't own and don't drive? it just boils down to irritation for the
"haves" and frustration for the "have nots". neither benefit. quit
whining and move on. and if you wrench, nod, smile and take the money -
there's plenty more there where that came from.- Hide quoted text -

This group hates poseurs. I hate poseurs, too, but I am not going
burn crosses on their lawns (I would, but I can't get in to their
gated communities).

We have a quasi-Marxist thing going on this group -- to each based on
his needs. The people who own the ultra-bling bicycles don't need
them. Grrrrrr. I hate them! Off with their heads! (Enter townsfolks
with pitchforks).

I need my proletariat Cannondale CAD3 with low-bling components to
lessen the pain when riding with my still-racing buddies. I fear,
though, that the Bolsheviks will make me ride a 4130 TIG-welded frame.
It is just as much fun, I am told. Soma frames? Yes, Soma, that will
make me feel good.-- "Jay the Savage" Beattie.

you evidently read too much for your own good. i think a few comrades
will have to show up at your house and deploy chewing gum strategically
about your library.