Lipoic Acid

MARGOLC said this...

Quoted message said:

I went to a nutritionist who recommended Lipoic Acid to
help lower my insulin use. In one week it has decreased my
dosage but I feel nauseous most of the time. Does anyone
have any feed back on this stuff?

Yes.

Take the advice of a doctor and not a quack. Nutritionists
are herb pushers and not qualified medical people.

FR
--
Imitation of life

www.flyingrat.net

MARGOLC wrote in message <20040309173246.22733.00001096@mb-
m10.aol.com>...

Quoted message said:

I went to a nutritionist who recommended Lipoic Acid to
help lower my

insulin

Quoted message said:

use. In one week it has decreased my dosage but I feel
nauseous most of the time. Does anyone have any feed back
on this stuff?

Some folks think Lipoic Acid may help a bit with diabetic
neuropathy. However, the folks who generated some favorable
data in Germany used intravenous injections. Data on the
oral form are contradictory.

I have never heard of any effect on insulin use.

I went on Google and looked again today, nothing about
insulin use.

Why would you want to lower your insulin use? If you have
lowered your need for insulin, how do you know?

I'm not being sarcastic, those are honest questions.

It is supposed to have no significant side effects a doses
up to 1800
mg/day. Normal doses are less than 200 mg/day.

Regards
Old Al

MARGOLC said:

I went to a nutritionist who recommended Lipoic Acid to
help lower my insulin use. In one week it has decreased my
dosage but I feel nauseous most of the time. Does anyone
have any feed back on this stuff?

the herb pusher achieved their goal.. lightened your
wallet... LOL BJ

A podiatrist I saw, actually the way was dx'd as a diabetic,
because I had gone due to foot pain, sold it in his office.
$30 for a monh's supply & said "some" people think it works.
I tried it, because I didn't know any better and herbal and
crazy cures were all the rage that year. I was desperate. I
just as soon have snorted air and flushed my hard earned
money down a toilet ! Or tossed it in to the wind for all
the good it never did. Then I met a physical trainer and
biochem student, who was doing research on it. Oral was not
the way. It has to be a lot and intravenous and even then is
not very effective. The money mongering podiatrist is still
singing Ol' MacDonald, the verse about the duck: quack,
quack, quack ! Perhaps a faith healer ! ? Better yet, the
more control over bg I got, the lesser the pain and some of
the feeling returned. Rainbow

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

I went to a nutritionist who recommended Lipoic Acid to
help lower my insulin use. In one week it has decreased my
dosage but I feel nauseous most of the time. Does anyone
have any feed back on this stuff?

I have to take it with food to avoid any stomach upset, and
I've found that only the time released formulation stayed in
my sysem long enough to reverse peripheral neuropathies.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Old Al said:

Some folks think Lipoic Acid may help a bit with diabetic
neuropathy. However, the folks who generated some favorable
data in Germany used intravenous injections. Data on the
oral form are contradictory.

For my money, the half life is too short, and the need to
remember it 3X per day a problem, so timed release was the
only way for me to go.

I used the following to guide me, and the 600mg XR dose
resolved the residual PNs I had after low carbing got rid of
the worst of the pain and numbness:

J Neurochem 2003 Jun;85 Suppl 2:15

Therapy with antioxidants in human diabetic neuropathy.

Ziegler D Deutsches Diabetes-Forschungsinstitut an der Heinrich-Heine-
Universitat, Auf'm Hennekamp 65, 40225 Dusseldorf, Germany,
[email hidden]

[Medline record in process]

Increased oxidative stress has been implicated in the
pathogenesis of diabetic polyneuropathy (DPN). Antioxidant
treatment with alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) has been shown to
prevent or ameliorate experimental diabetic neuropathy,
providing the rationale for treatment in humans. A recent
meta-analysis including four controlled clinical trials
provided evidence that treatment with ALA (600
mg/day i.v.) over 3 weeks is safe and significantly
improves both neuropathic symptoms and deficits to a
clinically meaningful degree in patients with
symptomatic DPN. Moreover, oral treatment for 4-7 months
tends to ameliorate neuropathic deficits and cardiac
autonomic neuropathy. Clinical and postmarketing
surveillance studies have revealed a highly favorable
safety profile of this drug. Based on these findings, a
pivotal long-term multicenter trial of oral treatment
with ALA (NATHAN 1 Study) is under way aimed at slowing
the progression of DPN.

PMID: 12752990, UI: 22638617
1: Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes 1999;107(7):421-30 Related
Articles, Books, LinkOut

Alpha-lipoic acid in the treatment of diabetic
polyneuropathy in Germany: current evidence from
clinical trials.

Ziegler D, Reljanovic M, Mehnert H, Gries FA.

Diabetes-Forschungsinstitut an der Heinrich-Heine-
Universitat, Dusseldorf, Germany. [email hidden]-
duesseldorf.de

Diabetic neuropathy represents a major health problem, as it
is responsible for substantial morbidity, increased
mortality, and impaired quality of life. Near-normoglycaemia
is now generally accepted as the primary approach to
prevention of diabetic neuropathy, but is not achievable in
a considerable number of patients. In the past two decades
several medical treatments that exert their effects despite
hyperglycaemia have been derived from the experimental
pathogenetic concepts of diabetic neuropathy. Such compounds
have been designed to improve or slow the progression of the
neuropathic process and are being evaluated in clinical
trials, but with the exception of alpha-lipoic acid
(thioctic acid) which is available in Germany, none of these
drugs is currently available in clinical practice. Here we
review the current evidence from the clinical trials that
assessed the therapeutic efficacy and safety of thioctic
acid in diabetic polyneuropathy. Thus far, 15 clinical
trials have been completed using different study designs,
durations of treatment, doses, sample sizes, and patient
populations. Within this variety of clinical trials, those
with beneficial effects of thioctic acid on either
neuropathic symptoms and deficits due to polyneuropathy or
reduced heart rate variability resulting from cardiac
autonomic neuropathy used doses of at least 600 mg per day.
The following conclusions can be drawn from the recent
controlled clinical trials.
2.) Short-term treatment for 3 weeks using 600 mg of
thioctic acid i.v. per day appears to reduce the chief
symptoms of diabetic polyneuropathy. A 3-week pilot study
of 1800 mg per day given orally indicates that the
therapeutic effect may be independent of the route of
administration, but this needs to be confirmed in a larger
sample size. 2.) The effect on symptoms is accompanied by
an improvement of neuropathic deficits. 3.) Oral treatment
for 4-7 months tends to reduce neuropathic deficits and
improves cardiac autonomic neuropathy. 4.) Preliminary
data over 2 years indicate possible long-term improvement
in motor and sensory nerve conduction in the lower limbs.
5.) Clinical and postmarketing surveillance studies have
revealed a highly favourable safety profile of the drug.
Based on these findings, a pivotal long-term multicenter
trial of oral treatment with thioctic acid (NATHAN I
Study) is being conducted in North America and Europe
aimed at slowing the progression of diabetic
polyneuropathy using a clinically meaningful and reliable
primary outcome measure that combines clinical and
neurophysiological assessment.

Publication Types: Review Review, Tutorial

PMID: 10595592 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

It has to be a lot and intravenous and even then is not
very >effective.

This hasn't been my experience. I got very little benefit
with oral until I took a time released formula. It's helped
me enormously, took about 3 mos. for results. Longer for PNs
to stay away even when off the alpha lipoic.

Susan

How long did you have to use it to get relief? What dosage
did you use? Thanks<< I have to take it with food to avoid
any stomach upset, and I've found that only the time
released formulation stayed in my sysem long enough to
reverse peripheral neuropathies.

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

How long did you have to use it to get relief? What dosage
did you use?

Sorry, I thought I'd posted this info. I took 600mg time
released once daily. I'd gotten rid of most of my severe PNs
by low carbing, but was left with numbness, a kind of
novacained feeling every a.m. in my lower legs and feet.
This resolved after about 3 mos. of consistent daily usage.

It would still recur mildly if I missed a week or more of
taking it. A few years down the road now, I can forego it
for months without any return of PNs.

Susan

I took it for many months, but I don't remember the dosage.
I had stopped taking it when I began losing weight and
losing 114lbs did the trick; along with exercise and steadt
bg and A1c below 7. I think these so called remedies are
just wishful thinking. I have taken some others, before i
knew better, that were just a horrible waste of time, money,
and hope. Rainbow

I took it for many months, but I don't remember the dosage.
I had stopped taking it when I began losing weight and
losing 114lbs did the trick; along with exercise and steadt
bg and A1c below 7. I think these so called remedies are
just wishful thinking. I have taken some others, before i
knew better, that were just a horrible waste of time, money,
and hope. Rainbow