Lime a bit of a lemon

Rik O'Shea said:

Lime a bit of a lemon....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/reviews/trek_lime07

Really? I didn't get that impression from reading the (above linked)
review.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Rik O'Shea said:

Lime a bit of a lemon....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/reviews/trek_lime07

Really? I didn't get that impression from reading the (above linked)
review.

Unless your mind was made up before you read the article. Then you would
ignore this bit
"Conclusion
The Lime is a fun, reliable, generally low maintenance around-town bike
with a high gee-whiz factor."
and call it a lemon.

Rik O'Shea said:

Lime a bit of a lemon....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/reviews/trek_lime07

"The Lime is a fun, reliable, generally low maintenance around-town bike
with a high gee-whiz factor. True to its objectives, it is well suited for
riding casually about town, the neighborhood, or on bike paths for
short-distance commuting or recreation. It is user friendly and simple to
ride, but it's less simple for wheel removal or maintenance. Control freaks
or those in a hurry need not apply, but neither of those are Trek's intended
audience here. For those cycling newbies that Trek and Shimano are trying to
draw into the fray, though, the Lime is an awfully appealing little
machine."

Bit of a lemon?

BS

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:34:51 -0800 (PST), "Rik O'Shea"

may have said:

Lime a bit of a lemon....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/reviews/trek_lime07

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I see two hurdles for this bike. The first and biggest is just
getting those for whom it is targeted to even look at a bike at all.

The second is getting them to cozy up to the price tag in a world
where Target sells something that *looks* just as good for under $150,
when their perception of brand differentiation between Trek and
Roadmaster is minimal or nonexistent.

Bear in mind also, in my experience the target audience has already
concluded that a multiple gear bike (and too often, a bike of any
kind) is not a thing they want to have around; my SO used to fall into
that category. If they are willing to consider a bike, then what they
want is often one that doesn't exist; a single-speed that's always the
right ratio for the rider and conditions. I've heard the revealing
question posed way too many times at bike shops: "What gear can I put
it in and just leave it there?" One would think that the Lime is an
answer to this, but that's not always a good assumption; an autoshift
still fails to please a lot of such folks, and it's hard for those of
use who love our gears to get our heads around what it is that they
really want; witness the gripe from the purchaser of an autoshift bike
(of a prior design that from the outside acted much like this one) to
the effect that "It always makes me pedal too fast; I want to pedal
slower."

One approach, for those in flat-terrain areas, is just to sell them a
single and forget about it. In places with hills, this is a less
useful solution for obvious reasons; multiple gears are more of a
necessity there, but the prospective buyer is still going to have a
lack of understanding as to why. They'll still ask the question noted
above. There are varying approaches to answering this, and they have
to be shaped to the rider and terrain.

Will this bike succeed? I have my doubts. It looks like an attempt
to make the cycling equivalent of an early-fifties Buick; built for
the driver who wanted to not have to know what they were doing or how
it worked, but capable of getting them where they wanted to go anyway.
The difference is that the Buick really did just have a Go, Stop and
Point in-flight control interface whose operation was pretty much
independent of the driver's capabilities for the majority of users.
The Trek Lime will, IMO, suffer from the comfortable power output and
rotational speed preference assumptions that have been made in its
design. I don't see an easy way around that with practical efficient
available affordable technology, though if the bike shop wants to
fine-tune the unit by swapping freewheels on the Nexus hub to suit the
mashers and the spinners among their buyers, that might help. I doubt
that many will consider this approach, though, since it probably
requires spending way too much time idenfiying just which base ratio
the customer is happiest with.

It will be interesting to see if these start selling, and then to see
if they actually get used.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:34:51 -0800 (PST), "Rik O'Shea"

may have said:

Lime a bit of a lemon....

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/reviews/trek_lime07

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I see two hurdles for this bike. The first and biggest is just
getting those for whom it is targeted to even look at a bike at all.

The second is getting them to cozy up to the price tag in a world
where Target sells something that *looks* just as good for under $150,
when their perception of brand differentiation between Trek and
Roadmaster is minimal or nonexistent.

Bear in mind also, in my experience the target audience has already
concluded that a multiple gear bike (and too often, a bike of any
kind) is not a thing they want to have around; my SO used to fall into
that category. If they are willing to consider a bike, then what they
want is often one that doesn't exist; a single-speed that's always the
right ratio for the rider and conditions. I've heard the revealing
question posed way too many times at bike shops: "What gear can I put
it in and just leave it there?" One would think that the Lime is an
answer to this, but that's not always a good assumption; an autoshift
still fails to please a lot of such folks, and it's hard for those of
use who love our gears to get our heads around what it is that they
really want; witness the gripe from the purchaser of an autoshift bike
(of a prior design that from the outside acted much like this one) to
the effect that "It always makes me pedal too fast; I want to pedal
slower."

One approach, for those in flat-terrain areas, is just to sell them a
single and forget about it. In places with hills, this is a less
useful solution for obvious reasons; multiple gears are more of a
necessity there, but the prospective buyer is still going to have a
lack of understanding as to why. They'll still ask the question noted
above. There are varying approaches to answering this, and they have
to be shaped to the rider and terrain.

Will this bike succeed? I have my doubts. It looks like an attempt
to make the cycling equivalent of an early-fifties Buick; built for
the driver who wanted to not have to know what they were doing or how
it worked, but capable of getting them where they wanted to go anyway.
The difference is that the Buick really did just have a Go, Stop and
Point in-flight control interface whose operation was pretty much
independent of the driver's capabilities for the majority of users.
The Trek Lime will, IMO, suffer from the comfortable power output and
rotational speed preference assumptions that have been made in its
design. I don't see an easy way around that with practical efficient
available affordable technology, though if the bike shop wants to
fine-tune the unit by swapping freewheels on the Nexus hub to suit the
mashers and the spinners among their buyers, that might help. I doubt
that many will consider this approach, though, since it probably
requires spending way too much time idenfiying just which base ratio
the customer is happiest with.

It will be interesting to see if these start selling, and then to see
if they actually get used.

IMO, the basic problem with the Trek Lime is that it's a ~$300 bike
selling for nearly $600. To the intended market, the Trek name means
little (and a name like Schwinn might resonate more), so the Trek
price premium won't play well. Some of the stuff, like the 'trunk' in
the saddle, and the colored trim seem kinda silly, but not a serious
'negative'.

Rik O'Shea said:

Lime a bit of a lemon....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/reviews/trek_lime07

The lack of a front brake on the Trek Lime is a MAJOR detriment.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

Ozark Bicycle said:

IMO, the basic problem with the Trek Lime is that it's a ~$300 bike
selling for nearly $600. To the intended market, the Trek name means
little (and a name like Schwinn might resonate more), so the Trek
price premium won't play well. Some of the stuff, like the 'trunk' in
the saddle, and the colored trim seem kinda silly, but not a serious
'negative'

You mean like a $300 cell phone selling for $600?
And look at the bits-o-fluff people are driving nowadays...next time
you're freewheeling up to a stoplight, peer in some of the windows,
they've got TELEVISIONS in them gosh-durned things for cry-ma-nettlies
sake!!!
Anti everything today,
ABS

Werehatrack said:

...
Bear in mind also, in my experience the target audience has already
concluded that a multiple gear bike (and too often, a bike of any
kind) is not a thing they want to have around; my SO used to fall into
that category.

You mean not everyone makes up a spreadsheet with gear ratios for all
their bicycles with results in gear inches, meters development, and
Sheldon's gain ratio; speed for a given cadence in both Imperial and SI
units; and wheel rpm at a given speed? The thought is too horrible to
contemplate!

Of course, this is pretty boring for standard bicycle drive trains - one
need a mid-drive or an internal gear hub combined with a derailer system
to make it interesting.

Quoted message said:

...
The Trek Lime will, IMO, suffer from the comfortable power output and
rotational speed preference assumptions that have been made in its
design. I don't see an easy way around that with practical efficient
available affordable technology, though if the bike shop wants to
fine-tune the unit by swapping freewheels on the Nexus hub to suit the
mashers and the spinners among their buyers, that might help. I doubt
that many will consider this approach, though, since it probably
requires spending way too much time idenfiying just which base ratio
the customer is happiest with....

Why not use the Nexus 7 or 8 as a base for an auto-shift hub - the extra
ratios would get around the problem mentioned above to a considerable
extent?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

Quoted message said:

Rik O'Shea or was that Gene?? said:

Lime a bit of a lemon....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/reviews/trek_lime07

Tom Sherman said:

The lack of a front brake on the Trek Lime is a MAJOR detriment.

Werehatrack touched on the problem of marketing to America already. Ask
a range of USians and most will state with confidence that front brakes
on a bicycle are 'unsafe'.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Rik O'Shea or was that Gene?? said:

Lime a bit of a lemon....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/reviews/trek_lime07

Tom Sherman said:

The lack of a front brake on the Trek Lime is a MAJOR detriment.

Werehatrack touched on the problem of marketing to America already. Ask
a range of USians and most will state with confidence that front brakes
on a bicycle are 'unsafe'.

Truly unfortunate, but better than the "I'm too hip to have brakes"
fixie crowd, who should know better.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

Quoted message said:

And look at the bits-o-fluff people are driving nowadays...next time
you're freewheeling up to a stoplight, peer in some of the windows,
they've got TELEVISIONS in them gosh-durned things for cry-ma-nettlies
sake!!!
Anti everything today,
ABS

You are right, of course, but the last time I was in the dentist's chair,
her assistant was wondering about me being a cyclist. She said she hadn't
ridden a bike since she was 10 years old and the idea of getting a new one
was both romantic and possibly beneficial health-wise. Plus, she could ride
with her kids! BUT, when a person such as she looks at a bicycle, knowing
that she paid about $79-$99 for her children's bike, she suddenly decides
she doesn't "really" need a bike after all, and she could "do without"
because it's a "frivolous" idea.

Those are the people who give up after looking at the prices.

Pat in TX

from RBT May 10-07 search> Lime datakoll

LIME AD 2 TV AD Purpose>expanding awareness among TV viewers >

3 Harley riders ape hangers-wide pegs-facial hair hombres with large
bone dome bare chested with chains ect. roll up to light
rump rump rrump rump rump rumpr rumprr thum thump
lime rider pedals up
next to H-D
reachs out with a bag in hand and yells
HEY DUDE WANT SOME PRUNES?

so bone dome breaks into a grin and sez in a hi squeaky voice "yeah
prunes ovah heah"
cyclist throws bag to bone dome over panch villa's head
bone dome grabs the bag and eats it!!
third cyclist in rear then throws up a green stream of puke, grabs
another bud
and the H-D thump off in a cloud ah blue smoke.

what you could do about global warming? shower, brush your teeth and
go up to the trek dealer, if he'll let you in which is questionable
right? and take a ride on the Lime!! buy a cliff bar or packet of ex-
lax. BRING A FRIEND!
its experimental

"People perceive cycling as something difficult that takes a high
level of fitness and expensive equipment. In a bike shop, now they see
a lot of gears and wires and spandex and things that don't mesh with
their image of riding down to the coffee shop or with their kids."

Riding down with Soprano but not Fonda?

They see a lot of gears and.... ?
"They" don't see anything
$7 a gallon, that "they'll see" but will "they" react ?
Needs niche TV advertizing. "they" is too broad a goal.
UN funding ?