Like Steam Trains--Thevenet

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Two-time winner Bernard Thévenet: "I think it's a beautiful Tour. Some say
there are no stars, but that doesn't bother me. I prefer to see young
riders come through like [Marcus] Fothen. Landis seems well set, but he's
a long way from having won it. The winner could come from as many as five
or six riders. Strategically, no team is controlling the race, so that
means it could go any number of ways. I prefer that kind of race. We are
no longer seeing [Lance Armstrong's] blue train going like a TGV. Now the
teams are like steam trains." http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2303

Best Tour in years.

You mean like, in seven Brian?

--
Snippy

"Snippy Bobkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1NOug.50948$B91.10462@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Two-time winner Bernard Thévenet: "I think it's a beautiful Tour. Some
say there are no stars, but that doesn't bother me. I prefer to see young
riders come through like [Marcus] Fothen. Landis seems well set, but he's
a long way from having won it. The winner could come from as many as five
or six riders. Strategically, no team is controlling the race, so that
means it could go any number of ways. I prefer that kind of race. We are
no longer seeing [Lance Armstrong's] blue train going like a TGV. Now the
teams are like steam trains." http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2303

Best Tour in years.

You mean like, in seven Brian?

--
Snippy

Nope.

Snippy Bobkins said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Best Tour in years.

You mean like, in seven Brian?

1999 was a great Tour. Lots of suspense, USP was nowhere
near the powerhouse team they would become.

Bob Schwartz

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Snippy Bobkins said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Best Tour in years.

You mean like, in seven Brian?

1999 was a great Tour. Lots of suspense, USP was nowhere
near the powerhouse team they would become.

2002 too.

--
Snippy

"Snippy Bobkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:C1Qug.141412$771.108059@edtnps89...

Quoted message said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Snippy Bobkins said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

> Best Tour in years.

You mean like, in seven Brian?

1999 was a great Tour. Lots of suspense, USP was nowhere
near the powerhouse team they would become.

2002 too.

--
Snippy

Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> coyly ssuggests...

Quoted message said:

Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?

No.

--
Snippy

B. Lafferty said:

Snippy Bobkins said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

Snippy Bobkins wrote:
> "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

>> Best Tour in years.
> You mean like, in seven Brian?

1999 was a great Tour. Lots of suspense, USP was nowhere
near the powerhouse team they would become.

2002 too.

Think you meant 2003. Actually 2001 was pretty exciting, even
though LANCE won a bunch of stages and it wasn't that close.
Funny thing: Tours of the LANCE era sort of divide into ones
where he won a boatload of stages (2001, 2002, 2004) and
ones where he didn't (2000, 2003, 2005). In 1999 he won a lot
but mostly TTs. I leave it to Brian to correlate this trend
with Ferrari's notebook and the comings and goings of
blue-coolered motorbikes.

Quoted message said:

Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?

No. He referred specifically to the blue train, which only dates
back to 2000 or so (actually even in 2001 people were talking
about USPS being subpar, especially before they got to Alpe
d"Huez). I'm confident Thevenet knows that EPO was in use
well before 1999.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Snippy Bobkins said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote :
> Snippy Bobkins wrote:
>> "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>
>>> Best Tour in years.
>> You mean like, in seven Brian?
>
> 1999 was a great Tour. Lots of suspense, USP was nowhere
> near the powerhouse team they would become.

2002 too.

Think you meant 2003. Actually 2001 was pretty exciting, even
though LANCE won a bunch of stages and it wasn't that close.
Funny thing: Tours of the LANCE era sort of divide into ones
where he won a boatload of stages (2001, 2002, 2004) and
ones where he didn't (2000, 2003, 2005). In 1999 he won a lot
but mostly TTs. I leave it to Brian to correlate this trend
with Ferrari's notebook and the comings and goings of
blue-coolered motorbikes.

Quoted message said:

Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?

No. He referred specifically to the blue train, which only dates
back to 2000 or so (actually even in 2001 people were talking
about USPS being subpar, especially before they got to Alpe
d"Huez). I'm confident Thevenet knows that EPO was in use
well before 1999.

Perhaps, but more likely it's a reference to the peloton of two speeds. The
TGV vs. steam engines has been used before by Tour commentators in France
referring to doping and the disadvantages of French (non-doped in their
view) riders. That Thevenet refers to all the teams this year as steam
powered, indicates that interpretation.

Quoted message said:

No. He referred specifically to the blue train, which only dates
back to 2000 or so (actually even in 2001 people were talking
about USPS being subpar, especially before they got to Alpe
d"Huez). I'm confident Thevenet knows that EPO was in use
well before 1999.

en.wikipedia.orgBlue Train (South Africa)Open ↗

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/08/20/140709.html

(more, auto):
http://autoaficionado.net/issue/0101-38.html

Agatha Christie murder mystery association, too.

A term also used in some old stuff I read somewhere years ago,
referring to a French (?) track team, which I didn't readily find a
link for.

I don't get the appeal of the phrase, either French or English, but
"Blue Train" has been around a good long while in one form or another.
Has some consonance with delivering the mail, Discovering (oceans,
sky), too.

Well, it's catchier than "Green and Yellow um, ah... Speak Up, Sonny,
You're Mumbling Again"? --D-y

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No. He referred specifically to the blue train, which only dates
back to 2000 or so (actually even in 2001 people were talking
about USPS being subpar, especially before they got to Alpe
d"Huez). I'm confident Thevenet knows that EPO was in use
well before 1999.

en.wikipedia.orgBlue Train (South Africa)Open ↗

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/08/20/140709.html

(more, auto):
http://autoaficionado.net/issue/0101-38.html

Agatha Christie murder mystery association, too.

A term also used in some old stuff I read somewhere years ago,
referring to a French (?) track team, which I didn't readily find a
link for.

I don't get the appeal of the phrase, either French or English, but
"Blue Train" has been around a good long while in one form or another.
Has some consonance with delivering the mail, Discovering (oceans,
sky), too.

Well, it's catchier than "Green and Yellow um, ah... Speak Up, Sonny,
You're Mumbling Again"? --D-y

The "blue train" was the name for the best teams in the Six Days Races who
formed some kind of cartel to share the main prizes en decide who was
permitted to win. If other riders tried to revolt, the mebers of the blue
train joined together to destroy them, unless the "insurgents", were too
good. In that case they were allowed to "take a seat" in the train.
Nevertheless the "machinists" were almost always the same, men like Van
Kempen, Schulte, Post, Van Steenbergen, Sercu, etc., etc.

Benjo

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No. He referred specifically to the blue train, which only dates
back to 2000 or so (actually even in 2001 people were talking
about USPS being subpar, especially before they got to Alpe
d"Huez). I'm confident Thevenet knows that EPO was in use
well before 1999.

en.wikipedia.orgBlue Train (South Africa)Open ↗

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/08/20/140709.html

(more, auto):
http://autoaficionado.net/issue/0101-38.html

Agatha Christie murder mystery association, too.

A term also used in some old stuff I read somewhere years ago,
referring to a French (?) track team, which I didn't readily find a
link for.

I don't get the appeal of the phrase, either French or English, but
"Blue Train" has been around a good long while in one form or another.
Has some consonance with delivering the mail, Discovering (oceans,
sky), too.

Well, it's catchier than "Green and Yellow um, ah... Speak Up, Sonny,
You're Mumbling Again"? --D-y

I hope the next few years will be the same as this Tour: wide open.

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

No. He referred specifically to the blue train, which only dates
back to 2000 or so (actually even in 2001 people were talking
about USPS being subpar, especially before they got to Alpe
d"Huez). I'm confident Thevenet knows that EPO was in use
well before 1999.

Perhaps, but more likely it's a reference to the peloton of two speeds.

Dumbass -

Both you and Thevenet are delusional.

The sport isn't any cleaner (or dirtier) this year than it was in
previous years.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?

No. He referred specifically to the blue train, which only dates
back to 2000 or so (actually even in 2001 people were talking
about USPS being subpar, especially before they got to Alpe
d"Huez). I'm confident Thevenet knows that EPO was in use
well before 1999.

Perhaps, but more likely it's a reference to the peloton of two speeds. The
TGV vs. steam engines has been used before by Tour commentators in France
referring to doping and the disadvantages of French (non-doped in their
view) riders. That Thevenet refers to all the teams this year as steam
powered, indicates that interpretation.

Since you had your mind made up, why did you ask the question?

"Snippy Bobkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:w6Rug.113944$A8.106543@clgrps12...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> coyly ssuggests...

Quoted message said:

Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?

No.

--
Snippy

Wasn't he the King of Cortisone?

"S.T.E.V.E." <h90943@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Snippy Bobkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:w6Rug.113944$A8.106543@clgrps12...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> coyly ssuggests...

Quoted message said:

Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?

No.

--
Snippy

Wasn't he the King of Cortisone?

Indeed. His career was shortened by damage (kidneys, IIRC) from steroids.
There was a point in the 1978 Giro where he nearly fell off his bicycle. My
recollection is that the team doctor at Peugeot, whose name I forget, later
moved on to Reynolds in Spain and was there when Delgado tested positive for
gout (probinicid).

"Tim Lines" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

>Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?

No. He referred specifically to the blue train, which only dates
back to 2000 or so (actually even in 2001 people were talking
about USPS being subpar, especially before they got to Alpe
d"Huez). I'm confident Thevenet knows that EPO was in use
well before 1999.

Perhaps, but more likely it's a reference to the peloton of two speeds.
The TGV vs. steam engines has been used before by Tour commentators in
France referring to doping and the disadvantages of French (non-doped in
their view) riders. That Thevenet refers to all the teams this year as
steam powered, indicates that interpretation.

Since you had your mind made up, why did you ask the question?

Go back and re-read the entire thread. You should be able to find your own
answer. If not.........such is life.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"S.T.E.V.E." <h90943@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Snippy Bobkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:w6Rug.113944$A8.106543@clgrps12...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> coyly ssuggests...
>
> Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?

No.

--
Snippy

Wasn't he the King of Cortisone?

Indeed. His career was shortened by damage (kidneys, IIRC) from steroids.
There was a point in the 1978 Giro where he nearly fell off his bicycle.
My recollection is that the team doctor at Peugeot, whose name I forget,
later moved on to Reynolds in Spain and was there when Delgado tested
positive for gout (probinicid).

I think it may have been a French sports doctor called Bellocq, who was a
proponent of hormonal adjustments. He was widely used within the peloton.
His patients included Lemond and Duclos amongst many others. He died at a
fairly young age of a heart attack during the 1993 Giro. Perhaps Benjo has
more details?

B. Lafferty wrote:
(snipped attributions):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wasn't he [Thevenet] the King of Cortisone?

(both quotes B. Lafferty or he'll correct me):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Indeed. His career was shortened by damage (kidneys, IIRC) from steroids.
There was a point in the 1978 Giro where he nearly fell off his bicycle.
My recollection is that the team doctor at Peugeot, whose name I forget,
later moved on to Reynolds in Spain and was there when Delgado tested
positive for gout (probinicid).

I think it may have been a French sports doctor called Bellocq, who was a
proponent of hormonal adjustments. He was widely used within the peloton.
His patients included Lemond and Duclos amongst many others. He died at a
fairly young age of a heart attack during the 1993 Giro. Perhaps Benjo has
more details?

L E M ON D was not after all pure as the driven white powders? --D-y

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"S.T.E.V.E." <h90943@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Snippy Bobkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:w6Rug.113944$A8.106543@clgrps12...
> "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> coyly ssuggests...
> >
> > Do you think Thevenet might have been referring to the pre-EPO era?
>
> No.
>
> --
> Snippy
>
>
Wasn't he the King of Cortisone?

Indeed. His career was shortened by damage (kidneys, IIRC) from
steroids. There was a point in the 1978 Giro where he nearly fell off his
bicycle. My recollection is that the team doctor at Peugeot, whose name I
forget, later moved on to Reynolds in Spain and was there when Delgado
tested positive for gout (probinicid).

I think it may have been a French sports doctor called Bellocq, who was a
proponent of hormonal adjustments. He was widely used within the peloton.
His patients included Lemond and Duclos amongst many others. He died at a
fairly young age of a heart attack during the 1993 Giro. Perhaps Benjo
has more details?

I didn't know that Bellocq was dead ... But I remember quite well that he
was the team doctor of Peugeot and admitted that he had prescribed steroids
and cortisones to Thévénet and some of his other patients. He defended
himself claiming that a physician has the right to precribe to his patients
whatever he thinks it necessary. I don't disagree, but his argument weakened
a little because he hadn't yet completed his studies and had signed the
prescriptions with the name of his father (also a doctor). Later he was one
of the most prominent advocates of the idea that athletes should be allowed
to use whatever they deemed necessary, be it under medical supervision. But
I'm afraid he didn't succeed in convincing many sport authorities.

Benjo