Lightweight Stoves

Hugh Spicer said:

I'm considering buying an Msr whisperlite or dragonfly stove for longer
walks/trips away - anyone any experience of using them ?

Yep, I've had my trusty Whisperlite Intl. for about 8 years now.
Excellent for cooking in a hurry. [censored] if you want to simmmer. It has
two heat settings: incinerate or incinerate quicker. 🙂

The Dragonfly, on the other hand, was designed to simmer too. It was
released in '98 where-as the Whisperlite is about ten years older.

Quoted message said:

Is it possible to fuel them with ethanol /alcohol ?

No, they're both petrol-based stoves and hence cook much hotter too.
Means you get your dinner tonight rather than tomorrow morning like a
Trangia methanol stove. 🙂

The Whisperlite and Dragonfly will take (my UK translataions may be
incorrect here) white gas, paraffin, diesel, petrol, white spirits and
aviation fuel. Cleanest and best to use is white gas. The rest will burn
dirtier or smellier. You'll generally want to make sure what-ever you're
cooking in has a lid on it if you're not using white gas.

If I was buying a new light-weight stove today, I'd definitely pay the
extra few quid and get the Dragonfly.

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

Hugh Spicer said:

I'm considering buying an Msr whisperlite or dragonfly stove for longer
walks/trips away - anyone any experience of using them ? Is it possible to
fuel them with ethanol /alcohol ?

No. AFAICT there's no stove on the market that will burn petroleum
based fuels and alcohols. My Primus MFS manual explains this by saying
that though the basic principle doesn't cause any problems nobody's yet
found a sealant that will work well with both :-(

Liquid fuel stoves have advantages in versatility if fuel resupply, at
least if they run on unleaded petrol, and in raw heat output, though
that's only really an issue if you're melting snow for a water supply.

I was quite surprised at a lecture about a ski tour over the Karakorum
last year that the chap who worked out the route and logistics (who's
been doing 8000m peaks in the Himalaya for years, so has plenty of local
experience) selected gas for the expedition fuel. He explained that it
was cleaner and easier to use, and since they'd have to take all their
fuel with them anyway rather than run some off a petrol pump in the
middle of an uninhabited wilderness, the various advantages of pressure
stoves were moot.

Liquid fuel pressure stoves are certainly fiddlier to light and control
and pose considerably more risk if you're cooking inside (for which
reason I very much prefer to cook outside on the Primus unless it's
/really/ horrible, though I'm fine inside with gas). Because the fuel
isn't sealed in cannisters there's sometimes an issue of things smelling
'orrible from petrol contamination if you're not careful (Primus gets
around this better than MSR AFAICT with a slow shutdown option that
burns all the fuel left in the feed line).

In conclusion, if you're carrying your fuel for the duration anyway then
don't write off gas yet: it's easier to use, cleaner and safer. The
main reason to use LF stoves is so you can refuel at any outpost of
"civilisation", and/or you'll be doing extensive snow melting. Note
that not all LF stoves are multifuel. If you can only burn coleman fuel
(which will work best even in a multifuel) then you certainly can't
assume you'll be better off for fuel resupply. For increased fuel and
stove flexibility note that the Primus Omnifuel can use gas cannisters,
which none of the MSRs do. One problem with the Primus compared to the
Whisperlite is it sounds like a turbojet! It really is quite
ostentatiously noisy.

I remain partially convinced that a lot of use of LF pressure stoves in
the UK is people wanting a "proper expedition stove" and assuming these
must be the best you can do for portable stoves. In their place they
are, but that place may well not be a typical UK camp location!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Reason for liquid fuels.. cost.

A winter trip with high fester risk, I dso not want to be thinking
about rationing brews. Short summer trips gas is fine, and has many
advatages as stated elsewhere.

However using unleaded is a cancer risk, although they are cutting the
amount of benzene in the stuff. Coleman fuel is prohibitively
expensive in Britain.

In North America, white gas is cheap and accessable.

I prefer gas for the summer, but give me a roaring petrol stove on a
long winter trip.

Richard Webb

Liquid fuel is still best in cold conditions where gas simpy doesn't
seem to want to escape it's cosy canister. I'm also convinced that LF
lasts longer (i.e. is more efficient for weight and/or space in my
rucksack). So, for summer weekends, I tend to use gas, for longer trips
and for winter, I use LF. I don't mind paying the premium for Coleman
Fuel/White Gas to simplify maintenance.

druidh

druidh said:

Liquid fuel is still best in cold conditions where gas simpy doesn't
seem to want to escape it's cosy canister.

Though it is worth noting that this is less of a problem the greater the
proportion of propane in the cannister. Pure butane is indeed not much
use around freezing or lower, but propane mixes work considerably better
(I think they use propane in burners for air balloons, for example,
which can involve pretty low temperatures, and also note my example of
the ski tour through the Karakorum using gas).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Liquid fuel pressure stoves are certainly fiddlier to light and control
and pose considerably more risk if you're cooking inside

Although there's still the risk of asphyxiation and then there's low
melting point of your average nylon tent to consider. 😉

Quoted message said:

'orrible from petrol contamination if you're not careful (Primus gets
around this better than MSR AFAICT with a slow shutdown option that
burns all the fuel left in the feed line).

Now that's a good idea. I can never get the last drops of fuel out of my
MSR WL. I burn it out slow, then disconnect and then shake the fuel line
out to try and flick the last few drops out.

Quoted message said:

which none of the MSRs do. One problem with the Primus compared to
the Whisperlite is it sounds like a turbojet! It really is quite
ostentatiously noisy.

Louder than a WL? Do you need ear-plugs? 🙂

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

Paul Day said:

Although there's still the risk of asphyxiation and then there's low
melting point of your average nylon tent to consider. 😉

This is quite so, and let's not forget that old favourite of carbon
monoxide poisoning ;-/ (moral for those not already aware: if you are
cooking inside then you need ventilation)

[Primus MFS]

Quoted message said:

Louder than a WL? Do you need ear-plugs? 🙂

Not quite /that/ loud, but voices need to be raised and there is an
amazing feeling of *calm* once dinner is ready...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I've used a dragonfly for a while now, I find it great for winter use, it
burns more reliably in the cold and is fully controllable. MSR always good
build quality I find. Downsides are it is LOUD and quite heavy for
backpacking. The 2005 ones have a much better, stronger pump assembly. In
summer I use a MSR Superfly with Isobutane cartridges.

I use "panel wipe" for dragonfly fuel, burns hot and clean and is cheap,
approx £10 for 5ltrs. Better than the £6 or so for half a litre of Coleman
Fuel. Panel wipe available from local car paint supplier, see links.

http://www.discountbodypanels.co.uk/products.html

http://www.starchem.co.uk/products/chemical.htm

hth

Regards

--
Martin

http://www.wild-camp.co.uk

"Hugh Spicer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering buying an Msr whisperlite or dragonfly stove for longer
walks/trips away - anyone any experience of using them ? Is it possible to
fuel them with ethanol /alcohol ?

ta much in advance...

--
Hugh Spicer
___________________________________
e: [email hidden]
w3: www.hughspicer.fsnet.co.uk

check out the latest images at:
http://photos.wanadoo.co.uk/album/1137378
___________________________________

"Hugh Spicer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering buying an Msr whisperlite or dragonfly stove for longer
walks/trips away - anyone any experience of using them ? Is it possible to
fuel them with ethanol /alcohol ?

best lightweight stove is no stove at all 🙂 use a fire . if you just
want to make a cup of tea then a small stick fire is fine, larger
criss-cross fires for cooking. All you have to carry is a bit of tinder
(paper or strips of rubber in wet conditions), waterproof matches and some
firelighters. all lightweight.

get some experience of fire building before you go though, it really is
quite an art - ray mears's book on bushcraft is excellent and has a whole
section devoted to fire building.

i do take a stove though usually too and use a vango meths one, small and
lightweight.

Quoted message said:

ta much in advance...

--
Hugh Spicer
___________________________________
e: [email hidden]
w3: www.hughspicer.fsnet.co.uk

check out the latest images at:
http://photos.wanadoo.co.uk/album/1137378
___________________________________

Jeremy Watts said:

"Hugh Spicer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering buying an Msr whisperlite or dragonfly stove for longer
walks/trips away - anyone any experience of using them ? Is it possible to
fuel them with ethanol /alcohol ?

best lightweight stove is no stove at all 🙂 use a fire . if you just
want to make a cup of tea then a small stick fire is fine, larger
criss-cross fires for cooking. All you have to carry is a bit of tinder
(paper or strips of rubber in wet conditions), waterproof matches and some
firelighters. all lightweight.

Try that in your tent. . .

Realistically tho, most of the places I've camped wild have been
completely devoid of suitable fuel. The best I ever got was on the
shores of Loch Ericht where there are loads of bit of old bog wood
exposed around the tide-mark. Lovely for toasting marshmallows.

druidh

"druidh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jeremy Watts said:

"Hugh Spicer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering buying an Msr whisperlite or dragonfly stove for longer
walks/trips away - anyone any experience of using them ? Is it possible
to
fuel them with ethanol /alcohol ?

best lightweight stove is no stove at all 🙂 use a fire . if you
just want to make a cup of tea then a small stick fire is fine, larger
criss-cross fires for cooking. All you have to carry is a bit of tinder
(paper or strips of rubber in wet conditions), waterproof matches and
some firelighters. all lightweight.

Try that in your tent. . .

Realistically tho, most of the places I've camped wild have been
completely devoid of suitable fuel. The best I ever got was on the shores
of Loch Ericht where there are loads of bit of old bog wood exposed around
the tide-mark. Lovely for toasting marshmallows.

this is true, some places i've been theres nothing there at all wood-wise 🙂
i always try to camp near where there are trees though, not only provides
good wind cover but you're guaranteed fire wood.

Quoted message said:

druidh

Jeremy Watts said:

best lightweight stove is no stove at all 🙂 use a fire . if you just
want to make a cup of tea then a small stick fire is fine, larger
criss-cross fires for cooking. All you have to carry is a bit of tinder
(paper or strips of rubber in wet conditions), waterproof matches and some
firelighters. all lightweight.

Assuming you're somewhere with trees. Plenty of places I've camped
don't even have enough wood for a Kelly Kettle. Also the case that if
it's been raining all day then it can be rather a PITA to get it lit,
and while you sit in the rain trying your slightly heavier loaded
compatriot has arrived, pitched camp, gone inside and got his brew!

I love open fires, but tend to use them on paddling trips where the wood
supply is better than (UK) walking, and since weight and bulk aren't big
issues in the boat I have a stove anyway.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Jeremy Watts said:

this is true, some places i've been theres nothing there at all wood-wise 🙂
i always try to camp near where there are trees though, not only provides
good wind cover

In summer in Scotland I tend to actively /avoid/ wind cover, as it helps
keep the midges away!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

druidh said:

Liquid fuel is still best in cold conditions where gas simpy doesn't
seem to want to escape it's cosy canister.

Though it is worth noting that this is less of a problem the greater
the proportion of propane in the cannister. Pure butane is indeed not
much use around freezing or lower, but propane mixes work considerably
better (I think they use propane in burners for air balloons, for
example, which can involve pretty low temperatures, and also note my
example of the ski tour through the Karakorum using gas).

And in both those examples the lack of pressure at altitude encourages
the gas to evaporate and makes them work better.

--

Dominic Sexton

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jeremy Watts said:

best lightweight stove is no stove at all 🙂 use a fire . if you
just want to make a cup of tea then a small stick fire is fine, larger
criss-cross fires for cooking. All you have to carry is a bit of tinder
(paper or strips of rubber in wet conditions), waterproof matches and
some firelighters. all lightweight.

Assuming you're somewhere with trees. Plenty of places I've camped don't
even have enough wood for a Kelly Kettle. Also the case that if it's been
raining all day then it can be rather a PITA to get it lit, and while you
sit in the rain trying your slightly heavier loaded compatriot has
arrived, pitched camp, gone inside and got his brew!

this is all true yes, and i always carry a stove anyway. its not
impossible to get fires going even in heavy rain, so long as you use
firelighters. theres a way of 'feathering' the kindling that makes it much
easier to light wet wood, you just mke repeated cuts in the wood and
literally create thin slivers in it. i've never used a kelly kettle (same
as a storm kettle??) sort of thin walled thing that you can use small
sticks and leaves to boil water in?

Quoted message said:

I love open fires, but tend to use them on paddling trips where the wood
supply is better than (UK) walking, and since weight and bulk aren't big
issues in the boat I have a stove anyway.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In message <[email hidden]>, Jeremy Watts
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jeremy Watts said:

best lightweight stove is no stove at all 🙂 use a fire . if you
just want to make a cup of tea then a small stick fire is fine, larger
criss-cross fires for cooking. All you have to carry is a bit of tinder
(paper or strips of rubber in wet conditions), waterproof matches and
some firelighters. all lightweight.

Assuming you're somewhere with trees. Plenty of places I've camped don't
even have enough wood for a Kelly Kettle. Also the case that if it's been
raining all day then it can be rather a PITA to get it lit, and while you
sit in the rain trying your slightly heavier loaded compatriot has
arrived, pitched camp, gone inside and got his brew!

this is all true yes, and i always carry a stove anyway. its not
impossible to get fires going even in heavy rain, so long as you use
firelighters. theres a way of 'feathering' the kindling that makes it much
easier to light wet wood, you just mke repeated cuts in the wood and
literally create thin slivers in it. i've never used a kelly kettle (same
as a storm kettle??) sort of thin walled thing that you can use small
sticks and leaves to boil water in?

The Kelly Kettle I have is double walled, to create a chimney effect. It
works quite well but is very bulky and heavy. I wouldn't carry it in a
pack.

However the Sierra Stove weighs a pound and is quite compact. I use one
occasionally, when I think I'll be camping where there's enough fuel.

http://www.zzstove.com/sierra.html

--
Chris

http://www.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk

I have used a coleman PEAK STOVE I since i got it in 1996 when i was in
the Army, work on unleaded or white gas, easy to use and burns like
buggery when you need it to but simmers as well. Its getting on a bit
and i guess there are plenty of better/newer ones about but for me its
the dogs.

Quoted message said:

I have used a coleman PEAK STOVE I since i got it in 1996 when i was in
the Army, work on unleaded or white gas, easy to use and burns like
buggery when you need it to but simmers as well. Its getting on a bit
and i guess there are plenty of better/newer ones about but for me its
the dogs.

While the design of pressure stoves has been tinkered with again
and again the basic design hasn't changed for decades: there are
plenty of vintage primus stoves still heating their owners' tea,
and most of the improvements have been the ability to burn more
fuel types, which is moot if you're happy with what you have, and
some improvements have been made in overall user-friendliness. But
when it comes to a roaring flame nothing much has changed in the
last half century...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/