Lights for night-time riding

Quoted message said:

Also, thinking about audax, what do people do for map/route-
reading lights? Would a clip-on booklight be up to the
task? Pocket-sized torch? Petzl headlamp?

I use a cateye EL400
(cateye.comdetail.phpOpen ↗) which
attaches very easily to the side of my helmet. YMMV though
as it will only work on certain helmets with enough space
for the bracket.

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What lighting do people use/recommend for night-time
riding?

Quoted message said:

I'm weighing up the pros and cons of dynamo vs battery
lights and coming down on the side of dynamo, probably
favouring a hub type (having read some of the info at
audax.uk.netlightsOpen ↗).

Well, you're already mostly agreeing with me! Hub dynamos
have proved the most reliable lighting for me.

The schmidt is nicer, but the shimano is perfectly adequate.
(I used an NX-10 for several years, and the newer ones are
supposed to be better).

One trick you can do is run more than one lamp in series.
The more common use for this is a second switchable front
lamp (used when you're going fast enough to need one). I'm
not sure this is compatible with the shimano switch though -
possibly an argument for not using one of those and having a
normal switch instead.

The less common variation on this is an LED back lamp, with
lots (24) LEDs in parallel, 12 facing one way and 12 the
other. Stick the whole lot in series with the front lamp,
and you have a rather great back light.

cheers, clive

davek said:

I'm weighing up the pros and cons of dynamo vs battery
lights and coming down on the side of dynamo, probably
favouring a hub type (having read some of the info at
audax.uk.netlightsOpen ↗).

The Schmidt SON sounds good but expensive, so it will
probably have to be the Shimano if I go down that route.
Since I'm happy with the Cateye at the rear, I'd probably
want to put all the dynamo power into a nice, bright, wide-
beamed front light. An advice/suggestions/anecdotes about
such a set-up?

I used to use a cateye 2 * 10Watt lamps powered from a lead
acid. It broke after a few years and many thousand miles, no
complaints, but I needed new lights. I wondered about a SON
but is is lots of money, new wheel et al and I had just
bought new wheels. The good lady points out that I should
stop faffing around, get the SON, try it and if it did not
work get something else (commuting saves a lot of cash so it
pays for itself quickly).

So I got a SON and a 3W head lamp. Does me fine for riding
on unlit country roads and in town. I would not go back to
batteries, hence my triplet has a dynamo (though not a hub
one, which I sort of regret).

I would not hesitate to recommend a SON.

--chris

In article <[email hidden]>, usenet-
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I'm sure this is a subject that gets discussed regularly
but I haven't been able to find anything specifically
relevant and/or recent in the archives...
=20
What lighting do people use/recommend for night-time
riding?
=20
By night-time riding, I'm thinking specifically of audax
and similar situations, so it needs to be effective on
unlit roads. And I'm not interested so much in what is
'legal' as what is practical and useful. (I imagine I'll
probably fit some 'legal' lights on by bike as well, just
as a token gesture, but I really want something that
actually helps me see in the dark.)
=20
Currently I have a Cateye TL-AU100 on the rear, which is a
pretty damn good light if you ask me.
=20
On the front I have a Cateye EL200, which is a decent
light for making yourself visible to cars etc. on lit
roads, but is next to useless for finding your way on
unlit roads.
=20
I'm weighing up the pros and cons of dynamo vs battery
lights and coming down on the side of dynamo, probably
favouring a hub type (having read some of the info at
audax.uk.netlightsOpen ↗).
=20
The Schmidt SON sounds good but expensive, so it will
probably have to be the Shimano if I go down that route.
Since I'm happy with the Cateye at the rear, I'd probably
want to put all the dynamo power into a nice, bright, wide-
beamed front light. An advice/suggestions/anecdotes about
such a set-up?
=20
Also, thinking about audax, what do people do for map/route-
reading lights? Would a clip-on booklight be up to the
task? Pocket-sized torch? Petzl headlamp?

OK. How good are you at basic electronics? A company called
Lumileds=20 make a series of high-power LEDs called the
Luxeon range and they come=20 in 1W, 3W and 5W flavours. The
1W ones seems to be (Haven't done an=20 object side-by-side
test yet) about as bright as my 10W halogen. I'm=20 guessing
that the 5W with the optional lens should give you a
decent=20 beam to cycle by. The other advantages are
relatively low power=20 consumption. The battery
configuration for my halogen which gives me=20 about 2 hours
burn time, would provide something like 40hours on the 1W.

This would be a bit of a project, but given that the
batterise would=20 cost about =A335 (NiMH) and the light
itself is around =A312 (1W) with lens= ,=20 this is still
going to weigh in at less than the competition. I don't=20
believe I've seen a NiMH headlight for these sort of prices.

Your Total Cost of Ownership should also be reduced, given
that the lamp=20 is not an incandescent and will last for
something like 10,000 hours=20 before you might want to
replace it.

Jon

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:42:35 GMT, davek
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure this is a subject that gets discussed regularly
but I haven't been able to find anything specifically
relevant and/or recent in the archives...

Oh, hey, at least it's not a helmet thread ;-)

Quoted message said:

What lighting do people use/recommend for night-time
riding?

Hub dynamo plus headtorch on unlit roads, hub dynamo
round town.

Quoted message said:

By night-time riding, I'm thinking specifically of audax
and similar situations, so it needs to be effective on
unlit roads. And I'm not interested so much in what is
'legal' as what is practical and useful. (I imagine I'll
probably fit some 'legal' lights on by bike as well, just
as a token gesture, but I really want something that
actually helps me see in the dark.)

SON with 12V setup is the dog's nuts then.

Quoted message said:

Currently I have a Cateye TL-AU100 on the rear, which is a
pretty damn good light if you ask me.

Not bad at all. Make sure you have two, one flashing one
steady, so if one fails you are still illuminated.

Quoted message said:

On the front I have a Cateye EL200, which is a decent light
for making yourself visible to cars etc. on lit roads, but
is next to useless for finding your way on unlit roads.

Indeed.

Quoted message said:

I'm weighing up the pros and cons of dynamo vs battery
lights and coming down on the side of dynamo, probably
favouring a hub type (having read some of the info at
audax.uk.netlightsOpen ↗).

Yes. Sound choice.

Quoted message said:

The Schmidt SON sounds good but expensive, so it will
probably have to be the Shimano if I go down that route.
Since I'm happy with the Cateye at the rear, I'd probably
want to put all the dynamo power into a nice, bright, wide-
beamed front light. An advice/suggestions/anecdotes about
such a set-up?

I have both. I have a Nexyus powering a 2.4W front and B&M
4D toplight senso multi on the wedgie, and that is
excellent - switch on auto, lights come on as required, no
brain involved.

On the 'bent I use batter rear lights, a 3W SON E6 headlight
and a second Lumotec Oval in series with a shorting switch
inna 12V stylee. That's even better.

I also use a headtorch on unlit roads, just to fill in the
dips.

If you can afford the SON, it's well worth the money. If you
can't, the Shimano is unlikely to disappoint.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

Quoted message said:

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What lighting do people use/recommend for night-time
riding?

Quoted message said:

I'm weighing up the pros and cons of dynamo vs battery
lights and coming down on the side of dynamo, probably
favouring a hub type (having read some of the info at
audax.uk.netlightsOpen ↗).

Well, you're already mostly agreeing with me! Hub dynamos
have proved the most reliable lighting for me.

The schmidt is nicer, but the shimano is perfectly
adequate. (I used an NX-10 for several years, and the
newer ones are supposed to be better).

One trick you can do is run more than one lamp in series.
The more common use for this is a second switchable front
lamp (used when you're going fast enough to need one). I'm
not sure this is compatible with the shimano switch though
- possibly an argument for not using one of those and
having a normal switch instead.

The less common variation on this is an LED back lamp,
with lots (24) LEDs in parallel, 12 facing one way and 12
the other. Stick the whole lot in series with the front
lamp, and you have a rather great back light.

I am eternally grateful to two riders with front hubs for
helping me complete my first 400; however for this year's I
intend to use two Cateye opticubes, for the small amount of
night riding I do they are fine. Also recommend an ebay led
head lamp (or if you want to pay full whack a Petzl tikka)
for maps/puntures.

davek said:

Currently I have a Cateye TL-AU100 on the rear, which is a
pretty damn good light if you ask me.

I agree, the weapon of choice for me on the Brompton,
and with minor wangles will fit on a mudguard as well
a seatpost.

Quoted message said:

I'm weighing up the pros and cons of dynamo vs battery
lights and coming down on the side of dynamo, probably
favouring a hub type (having read some of the info at
audax.uk.netlightsOpen ↗).

Having a SON on the 'bent *and* the Brompton, I clearly
think they're worth the money, and it's just got another
vote here. On the 'bent it's powering both lamps but is
still quite adequate for unlit country roads, of which
there's no shortage round here. I do go a bit slower round
sharp bends on downhills and it's not really good enough for
extended offroad, but aside from that no gotchas. I've been
very impressed with it. My front is a B&M Lutoyec Oval Plus
Sensor, which includes a photocell to turn on the lamps for
you as it gets gloomy. Sounds like a gimmick, but the more I
use it the more I like
it: it just makes your lamps something you can forget about.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

MartinM said:

fine. Also recommend an ebay led head lamp (or if you want
to pay full whack a Petzl tikka) for maps/puntures.

I agree on the LED headlamp. On last years Dunwich Dynamo I
found mine very useful for reading road signs.

Quick plug: ultraleds.co.ukultraleds.co.ukOpen ↗ (I have no
connection with this company)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fine. Also recommend an ebay led head lamp (or if you want to pay full whack a Petzl tikka) for maps/puntures.

I agree on the LED headlamp. On last years Dunwich Dynamo I found mine very useful for reading road signs.

I asked my brother, who is a caver, and he also suggested the tikka. Sounds good to me.

Quoted message said:

Quick plug: http://www.ultraleds.co.uk

cheers.

d.

Thanks Peter and Guy and everyone else for all the excellent advice - I'm now leaning towards the possibility of waiting a while and building the cost of a SON into my new bike (a fully kitted tourer) when I get it... and at that point I'll probably convert the current all-purpose machine into a dedicated road training bike, so a hub dynamo probably wouldn't be such a good idea right now. I'm unlikely to do my first 400 before I get the new bike anyway.

cheers,

d.

davek said:

I'm now leaning towards the possibility of waiting a while
and building the cost of a SON into my new bike (a fully
kitted tourer) when I get
it...

Yes, you've guessed it, it's the obligatory Recumbent Plug!
Quite seriously, if you want a bike that will take luggage a
long distance in reliable comfort then the right 'bent is
well worth a look. Ever felt a little saddle sore, or had
aching neck/arms/shoulders/wrists? If so, then a 'bent
solves these problems much better than fiddling about with
setups on an upright. For an Audax with some, but not a huge
pile, of luggage the Speedmachine is available with SON as
standard and you'd have a *very* good Audax machine, fast
capable and comfortable. For more luggage (think kitchen
sink too, the SpM will take 70l with a pair of HPVel's own
bags) the Streetmachine GT is a better load lugger but isn't
so quick. The Grasshopper is somewhere between. SMGT and GH
also have a SON as a standard option. Those are just the
choices from HPVelotechnik, there are plenty of others (and
many will supply a SON as standard, Roos' new Nazca will
have one when it arrives).

No, they're not in any way cheap and you won't get
anywhere you couldn't get on a Horizon, but if you can
afford it they'll all take you there in more comfort and
you'll be more relaxed during and after the ride as well
as probably seeing more of the countryside too (unless
you're in one of those rare areas where the hedges/walls
are between the height of a seated upright cyclist's head
and that of a car driver).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

davek <[email hidden]> wrote:

: What lighting do people use/recommend for night-time
: riding?

How fast are you? Off question, but I think it relevant.

I use a Shimano hub dynamo on my fixie for commuting with a
3W front light and LED rear. Can't praise it enough. I
haven't touched it once since installing it, even to switch
it on and off. That "auto-sensing" switch seems like a
gimmick at first, but starts seem a really good idea once
you get used to whole "just jump on ride" thing.

but.....

For winter riding (20-30 miles after work) I bought a
Lumicycle 12W system. Enables me to maintain 20mph on unlit
country roads, which I can't do with the 3W light.

So, depends really.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Arthur Clune said:

How fast are you? Off question, but I think it relevant.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

For winter riding (20-30 miles after work) I bought a
Lumicycle 12W system. Enables me to maintain 20mph on
unlit country roads, which I can't do with the 3W light.

Quite so: note my comment about slowing down quite a bit
more for bendy bits going downhill up-thread. I don't do 20
mph if I'm not going downhill, but then I'm a trundlie and
Arthur's a roadie.

Having said that, you could still benefit from a dynohub
using an "as well as" backup rather than a pure battery
system. If it's to be a full tourer then chances are you'll
benefit from being independent of battery charging
facilities at some point, and as a tourer is a good general
utility bike it just saves an awful lot of faffing for
getting about when not in a hurry round your home base.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:04:57 +0100, Jon Senior
<jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, usenet-
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I'm sure this is a subject that gets discussed regularly
but I haven't been able to find anything specifically
relevant and/or recent in the archives...

What lighting do people use/recommend for night-time
riding?

By night-time riding, I'm thinking specifically of audax
and similar situations, so it needs to be effective on
unlit roads. And I'm not interested so much in what is
'legal' as what is practical and useful. (I imagine I'll
probably fit some 'legal' lights on by bike as well, just
as a token gesture, but I really want something that
actually helps me see in the dark.)

Currently I have a Cateye TL-AU100 on the rear, which is
a pretty damn good light if you ask me.

On the front I have a Cateye EL200, which is a decent
light for making yourself visible to cars etc. on lit
roads, but is next to useless for finding your way on
unlit roads.

I'm weighing up the pros and cons of dynamo vs battery
lights and coming down on the side of dynamo, probably
favouring a hub type (having read some of the info at
audax.uk.netlightsOpen ↗).

The Schmidt SON sounds good but expensive, so it will
probably have to be the Shimano if I go down that route.
Since I'm happy with the Cateye at the rear, I'd probably
want to put all the dynamo power into a nice, bright, wide-
beamed front light. An advice/suggestions/anecdotes about
such a set-up?

Also, thinking about audax, what do people do for map/route-
reading lights? Would a clip-on booklight be up to the
task? Pocket-sized torch? Petzl headlamp?

OK. How good are you at basic electronics? A company called
Lumileds make a series of high-power LEDs called the Luxeon
range and they come in 1W, 3W and 5W flavours. The 1W ones
seems to be (Haven't done an object side-by-side test yet)
about as bright as my 10W halogen. I'm guessing that the 5W
with the optional lens should give you a decent beam to
cycle by. The other advantages are relatively low power
consumption. The battery configuration for my halogen which
gives me about 2 hours burn time, would provide something
like 40hours on the 1W.

This would be a bit of a project, but given that the
batterise would cost about £35 (NiMH) and the light itself
is around £12 (1W) with lens, this is still going to weigh
in at less than the competition. I don't believe I've seen
a NiMH headlight for these sort of prices.

I use an LED headlamp, and AA-size NiMh rechargables in
them.

There are two CatEye headlamps like that, both low to mid-
thirty quid in my LBS.

A set of 4 NiMh AA cells and a fast charger was £12 in
Maplin, last time I looked.

The other advantage of lights and standard batteries, is
that you can carry spare batteries.

The big advantages of LED lamps is that they're bright, and
they take forever to use up batteries. (30 hours as a
headlamp, and a 100-odd hours as a light-to-be-seen-by.)

Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.srOpen ↗
Symbian/Epoc wiki: html.dnsalias.nethtml.dnsalias.netOpen ↗ Smalltalk
links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
html.dnsalias.netsmalltalkOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Yes, you've guessed it, it's the obligatory Recumbent Plug!

Hurrah!

Quoted message said:

Ever felt a little saddle sore

Not since I got the B17

Quoted message said:

No, they're not in any way cheap

There's the rub - a recumbent is definitely high on the wish list but low on the budget priority list. 🙁

d.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For winter riding (20-30 miles after work) I bought a
Lumicycle 12W system. Enables me to maintain 20mph on
unlit country roads, which I can't do with the 3W light.

Quite so: note my comment about slowing down quite a bit
more for bendy bits going downhill up-thread. I don't do
20 mph if I'm not going downhill, but then I'm a trundlie
and Arthur's a roadie.

I'm kind of somewhere in between, I think. Tend to average
around 15mph. I would have to see for myself how much light
the 3W gave before I could say whether or not I'd be
confident at speed - I also think it partly depends how well
you know the roads... given that part of teh point of doing
audax is not knowing the roads, it sounds like the 12W could
be a sensible option. Hmmm. Plenty to think about.

d.

davek said:

I'm sure this is a subject that gets discussed regularly
but I haven't been able to find anything specifically
relevant and/or recent in the archives...

What lighting do people use/recommend for night-time
riding?

By night-time riding, I'm thinking specifically of audax
and similar situations, so it needs to be effective on
unlit roads. And I'm not interested so much in what is
'legal' as what is practical and useful. (I imagine I'll
probably fit some 'legal' lights on by bike as well, just
as a token gesture, but I really want something that
actually helps me see in the dark.)

Currently I have a Cateye TL-AU100 on the rear, which is a
pretty damn good light if you ask me.

On the front I have a Cateye EL200, which is a decent
light for making yourself visible to cars etc. on lit
roads, but is next to useless for finding your way on
unlit roads.

I'm weighing up the pros and cons of dynamo vs battery
lights and coming down on the side of dynamo, probably
favouring a hub type (having read some of the info at
audax.uk.netlightsOpen ↗).

The Schmidt SON sounds good but expensive, so it will
probably have to be the Shimano if I go down that route.
Since I'm happy with the Cateye at the rear, I'd probably
want to put all the dynamo power into a nice, bright, wide-
beamed front light. An advice/suggestions/anecdotes about
such a set-up?

I use a B&M 6 bottle dynamo. I can't really recommend it;
tyre choice is restricted, they slip horribly in pouring
rain unless/although you wind the tension up to maximum [1],
they make an unpleasant noise and they're quite heavy. On
the positive side, they're fairly cheap, don't need a
special wheel build, don't noticeably drag [2] and can be
removed easily in summer. I'm considering one of the new
improved Nexus hubs.

I use a 3W bulb in a B&M Lumotec Oval front lamp and this is
the good part of the setup - there is just enough light to
ride at 20mph down dark country lanes. My rear light is a
TL-AU100 like yours, mounted on the rack via a steel angle
iron from B&Q - the holes are in just the right place!

[1] note mine is fitted *behind* the front fork (on a proper
braze-on) and whatever Thorn and Tony Oliver might claim
about the dynamo dragging itself harder into the tyre in
this position, it still slips. I bought the all weather
wire-brush roller as a solution, then realised it would
quickly chew up my lightweight tyres.

[2] of course, there is *zero* drag when a bottle dynamo is
disengaged.

Quoted message said:

I use a 3W bulb in a B&M Lumotec Oval front lamp and this
is the good part of the setup

It certainly sounds like a popular option.

Quoted message said:

My rear light is a TL-AU100 like yours, mounted on the
rack via a steel angle iron from B&Q - the holes are in
just the right place!

Funny you should mention that. I had mine on the seatpost
but there's no room for it since I fitted a saddlepack, so
I've put in on the RH seatstay, but have had to tighten
the bracket to just about its tightest possible setting,
which is not ideal. I need to get a rack and I was
thinking of getting a Tortec rack for the simple reason
that they have Cateye mounts built in, but then the other
day I saw a bike with your kind of set-up... and a
lightbulb went on in my head...

Cheers for the tip,

d.