Light recommendations?

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Frank Krygowski) said:

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

There are a lot of toy-like headlight and tail lights out there that will give people a false
sense of security. A 2.4W headlight is not going to cut it, unless perhaps it is an HID 2.4W
headlight!

We know that's your heartfelt opinion, Steven. Obviously, many others have a different opinion.

See, there's that persistent reference to "watts" again. Poor ol' James Watt. I bet he wishes he
could collect royalties. We might as well talk about horsepower of lights, or newton-pounds. WTH
does that have to do with being able to see broken glass bottles splayed across the road?

At any rate, I encourage readers to not take Steven's advice too much to heart. Unless they really
wanna throw good money after bad.

cheers, Tom

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(Tom Keats) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Frank Krygowski) said:

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

There are a lot of toy-like headlight and tail lights out there that will give people a false
sense of security. A 2.4W headlight is not going to cut it, unless perhaps it is an HID 2.4W
headlight!

We know that's your heartfelt opinion, Steven. Obviously, many others have a different opinion.

See, there's that persistent reference to "watts" again. Poor ol' James Watt. I bet he wishes he
could collect royalties. We might as well talk about horsepower of lights, or newton-pounds. WTH
does that have to do with being able to see broken glass bottles splayed across the road?

At any rate, I encourage readers to not take Steven's advice too much to heart. Unless they really
wanna throw good money after bad.

cheers, Tom

Why not see for yourself the different light patterns and intensity for a variety of units tested
and photographed at MTB Reviews. There are considerable differences between the various units
tested. It is visually apparent that not all units performed well.

See:

mtbr.combeampattern.shtmlOpen ↗

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

See, there's that persistent reference to "watts" again. Poor ol' James Watt. I bet he wishes he
could collect royalties. We might as well talk about horsepower of lights, or newton-pounds. WTH
does that have to do with being able to see broken glass bottles splayed across the road?

You're partially correct. The proper measurement is lumens. But for the same bulb technology lumens
per watt is pretty constant. I added a table to my web site that shows the watts and lumens of the
MR11 bulbs used in high performance lighting systems, and the quartz-halogen bulbs used in generator
lighting systems.

Wattage Lumens MR11 6W 80 MR11 10W 190 MR11 20W 400

HS3 2.4W 36 HS3 3W 46

Quoted message said:

At any rate, I encourage readers to not take Steven's advice too much to heart. Unless they really
wanna throw good money after bad.

Actually I advise people to NOT throw money away on commercial lighting systems. You can build one
with commonly availble parts for much less.

Where we differ, is that I don't believe that a 36 lumen headlamp is sufficient in an area filled
with vehicles with dual 1000 lumen or so headlamps. With a 400 lumen headlamp you've got a far
better chance of being seen. And those 0.6W tail lamps are useless.

I think that in the Netherlands a nice generator light would be adequate while riding down their
cyclepaths. It also helps that vehicles are much more concsious of bicycles than in the U.S..

Steve nordicgroup.uss78Open ↗

"Joe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Why not see for yourself the different light patterns and intensity for a variety of units tested
and photographed at MTB Reviews. There are considerable differences between the various units
tested. It is visually apparent that not all units performed well.

But they did not test any generator lights.

[email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Just for laffs, I bought one of those "toy" generator/headlight/taillight combos (from Canadian
Tire). The thing is surprisingly effective. 3W is 3W, after all.

I know a person who's got one of those bargain-store generators on her commuting bike. It came with
a standard vacuum bulb (2.4 watts), which I replaced with a halogen bulb of the same wattage, which
is much brighter. She doesn't ride at night all _that_ often, but it works well for her whenever she
does. BTW, she lives in the center of a major city.

Quoted message said:

All my generator setups use 2-conductor leads. It's much more dependable that way, than the
1-conductor thing with screws digging into paint.

This is a very sensible (and easy) thing to do. The bike frame can be an unreliable path for
electricity.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Above all, get a good tail lamp, a Xenon strobe is incredibly bright, with average power of less
than 2W.

I've got a real good blinkie (cost me all of $20, and has a good reflector built-in), plus my 0.6W
taillight...

My commuting bike has the generator taillight (sometimes turned on, sometimes not), a blinkie, and a
red rear reflector. I've gotten spontaneous compliments from motorists at least three times, telling
me how visible I was. I've also verified my setup by having family and friends observe it from
passing cars. (I've done the same for them.)

I think this last is the best tip of all. Check out your lighting system, and those of some friends,
from a car. Do this from various angles and directions. I've organized "Night Lighting Workshops"
for my bike club based on this exercise. In every case, every participant came away convinced that
relatively small lights (and reflectors, of course) are perfectly adequate.

The way people get in trouble is by using _no_ lights. It doesn't take much to be legal and safe.

- Frank Krygowski

In article <[email hidden]>, "Steven M. Scharf"

Quoted message said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

See, there's that persistent reference to "watts" again. Poor ol' James Watt. I bet he wishes he
could collect royalties. We might as well talk about horsepower of lights, or newton-pounds. WTH
does that have to do with being able to see broken glass bottles splayed across the road?

You're partially correct. The proper measurement is lumens. But for the same bulb technology
lumens per watt is pretty constant. I added a table to my web site that shows the watts and lumens
of the MR11 bulbs used in high performance lighting systems, and the quartz-halogen bulbs used in
generator lighting systems.

Wattage Lumens MR11 6W 80 MR11 10W 190 MR11 20W 400

HS3 2.4W 36 HS3 3W 46

Quoted message said:

At any rate, I encourage readers to not take Steven's advice too much to heart. Unless they
really wanna throw good money after bad.

But it'll weigh a lot. And enforce reliance on the grid.

Quoted message said:

Actually I advise people to NOT throw money away on commercial lighting systems. You can build one
with commonly availble parts for much less.

I agree with you there. Things can be cooked-up @ less than half the cost of equiv commerical
offerings.

Quoted message said:

Where we differ, is that I don't believe that a 36 lumen headlamp is sufficient in an area filled
with vehicles with dual 1000 lumen or so headlamps.

Yeah, I've heard this many times before. There's the "fog of lights" at night -- illuminated
business signs, car lights, street lighting, etc, all happening at once. The thinking is, cyclists
*must* have superior brightness to cut through all that. But we're not in the middle of the road at
such times, and we simply don't have the wherewithal to pack that much voltage around with us. A
cyclist at night is not the same brazen individual as in the middle of the day. So, extra care is
taken. Nevertheless, those 36 lumens still go a long way.

...

Quoted message said:

With a 400 lumen headlamp you've got a far better chance of being seen. And those 0.6W tail lamps
are useless.

In my empirical foggy-night observations, those 0.6W tailights are somewhat better than blinkies.
Incandescent bulbs seem to burn thru fog better than LEDs.

cheers, Tom
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[I wrote: ]

Quoted message said:

At any rate, I encourage readers to not take Steven's advice too much to heart. Unless they really
wanna throw good money after bad.

I was probably out of line there. At least Steven addresses the idea of active illumination at
night, and I've got to respect that.

So, while I disagree with Steven on what constitutes adequate lighting (and the expense thereof),
I'm glad that he contributes to discussion on night lighting, because it /is/ so very important.

cheers, Tom

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"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

But it'll weigh a lot. And enforce reliance on the grid.

Carrying the extra weight will not have any more effect that the added drag of a generator.

As to reliance on the grid, gotta hand it to you for coming up with that gem. The amount of
electricity needed to recharge a battery is miniscule. Worry about reducing your use of hot water
and A/C rather than the electricity needed to recharge a small battery.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where we differ, is that I don't believe that a 36 lumen headlamp is sufficient in an area
filled with vehicles with dual 1000 lumen or so headlamps.

Yeah, I've heard this many times before. There's the "fog of lights" at night -- illuminated
business signs, car lights, street lighting, etc, all happening at once. The thinking is, cyclists
*must* have superior brightness to cut through all that.

Not superior brightness, we'll be unlikely to have superior brightness except by the use of HIDs.
But there is a big difference between 36 lumens and 400 lumens, it can't be categorized into simply
greater than or less than the brightness of vehicle lights.

Quoted message said:

But we're not in the middle of the road at such times, and we simply don't have the wherewithal to
pack that much voltage around with us.

Oh my g-d, Volta is turning over in his grave. It's energy that you're carrying around, and for
batteries the units are watt-hours.

Quoted message said:

A cyclist at night is not the same brazen individual as in the middle of the day. So, extra care
is taken. Nevertheless, those 36 lumens still go a long way.

Again, that's where we differ.

Quoted message said:

In my empirical foggy-night observations, those 0.6W tailights are somewhat better than blinkies.
Incandescent bulbs seem to burn thru fog better than LEDs.

It's hard to imagine anything worse than a blinkie, but fortunately you can now buy AA powered Xenon
strobes. You could probably even hook them to your generator somehow, with a rectifier and a voltage
regulator.

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

See, there's that persistent reference to "watts" again....

You're partially correct. The proper measurement is lumens. But for the same bulb technology
lumens per watt is pretty constant. I added a table to my web site that shows the watts and lumens
of the MR11 bulbs used in high performance lighting systems, and the quartz-halogen bulbs used in
generator lighting systems.

Wattage Lumens MR11 6W 80 MR11 10W 190 MR11 20W 400

HS3 2.4W 36 HS3 3W 46

This is good information for comparing the efficiency of various bulbs, but not so good for
comparing the way bulbs light a road surface.

The number of lumens emitted is really the power output by the bulb in the form of light sprayed in
all directions. Ideally, you'd like lots of lumens from every watt (and some bulb types are better
than others at this conversion).

But my major complaint about MR-11 bulbs is that most of their lumens are wasted. They're not well
focused. As is obvious from car headlights, motorcycle headlights, moped headlights, etc, the
sensible way to light the road is to concentrate the lumens into a beam that shines where you need
to see. Don't spray an unfocused blob of light. The more you can concentrate the light, the brighter
the road will be illuminated. (The units of measurement would thus be lumens per steradian, or
perhaps lumens per square meter, depending how you wanted to discuss it.)

MR-11 lamps are actually designed for showing off artwork in ritzy homes, not for lighting roads.
The light is only vaguely concentrated, and nowhere near the most-efficient rectangular beam that
all other headlights use.

It continues to amaze me that high-zoot cyclists, the type who drill holes in their spokes for
lightness ;-) are willing to haul extra battery weight around to make up for this waste, rather than
demanding simple lenses on their headlights!

Quoted message said:

Actually I advise people to NOT throw money away on commercial lighting systems. You can build one
with commonly availble parts for much less.

Another interesting point! What other commercial bike product is so un-sophisticated that you can
buy the parts separately, cobble something together in your basement, and end up with something
cheaper and better than the mass-produced consumer item?

The manufacturers are buying batteries and bulbs by the thousands. They should be paying much less
per unit and passing on part of that savings to consumers.

Even better, they should be using part of that savings to design a simple lens for the front of the
light! Cateye can design a sophisticated lens for a headlight that sells for $10. Why isn't it done
for a headlight that sells for $150? Why make you buy and carry a larger battery to make up for the
lack of a lens?

Quoted message said:

Where we differ, is that I don't believe that a 36 lumen headlamp is sufficient in an area filled
with vehicles with dual 1000 lumen or so headlamps. With a 400 lumen headlamp you've got a far
better chance of being seen. And those 0.6W tail lamps are useless.

I think that in the Netherlands a nice generator light would be adequate while riding down their
cyclepaths. It also helps that vehicles are much more concsious of bicycles than in the U.S..

As I suggested, people should observe their bike lights from a passing car. See for yourself whether
your lights show up. You'll probably find that a 20 Watt bulb is nice, but not necessary for
adequate conspicuity. All the people I've ever done this with have agreed.

In fact, last week we were driving home and saw our city's most dedicated bike commuter riding at
night with his usual 2.4 watt headlight. We saw him from well over two blocks away, despite the
rather heavy traffic!

- Frank Krygowski

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It's hard to imagine anything worse than a blinkie,

:-) No, it's easy. Just imagine a super-bright taillight powered by
a 2-hour battery, at the end of a three hour ride!

Seriously - why on earth do you place blinkies (i.e. flashing LED taillights) at the bottom of your
list?? Is it because you can only see them from 1/2 mile away??

- Frank Krygowski

On 2 Sep 2003 21:42:03 -0700, [email hidden] (Frank Krygowski) from

url='http://groups.google.com/'http://groups.google.com//url said:

Seriously - why on earth do you place blinkies (i.e. flashing LED taillights) at the bottom of your
list?? Is it because you can only see them from 1/2 mile away?

You can see the new CatEye blinkie from a mile away.

Here it is on performancebike:

performancebike.comProfile.cfmOpen ↗

I got mine form my LBS.

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poindexter bar bat??
11:54:20 PM 2 September 2003

In article <[email hidden]>, "Steven M. Scharf"

Quoted message said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

But it'll weigh a lot. And enforce reliance on the grid.

Carrying the extra weight will not have any more effect that the added drag of a generator.

Well, I guess I've gotten used to generator drag. But as a traditional bottle generator user, you've
got me there. The hub generator ppl might be able to give you a run 4 the money, tho'.

Quoted message said:

As to reliance on the grid, gotta hand it to you for coming up with that gem. The amount of
electricity needed to recharge a battery is miniscule. Worry about reducing your use of hot water
and A/C rather than the electricity needed to recharge a small battery.

My complaint w/ plugging into the wall socket isn't to do with resource consumption -- not a lot, in
this case, anywayz. It's about independence. Y'know that Shakira song, about "wherever, whenever"?

Shakira's great, ain't she? So's my Union bottle generator.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where we differ, is that I don't believe that a 36 lumen headlamp is sufficient in an area
filled with vehicles with dual 1000 lumen or so headlamps.

Yeah, I've heard this many times before. There's the "fog of lights" at night -- illuminated
business signs, car lights, street lighting, etc, all happening at once. The thinking is,
cyclists *must* have superior brightness to cut through all that.

Not superior brightness, we'll be unlikely to have superior brightness except by the use of HIDs.
But there is a big difference between 36 lumens and 400 lumens

No, no, no, no, a thousand times, no! Okay, now we're talking about brightness. That's good. And for
being able to discern dead skunks in the middle of the road, that's excellent! And if one can see
dead critters in the road enuf to steer around them, the lights are good enuff.

Quoted message said:

it can't be categorized into simply greater than or less than the brightness of vehicle lights.

I'm glad you said that, because you're right (IOW, I agree with you :-)

But a generator-powered headlight /does/ provide adequate illumination to see street imperfections,
to be seen by ambient drivers, and to generally ride at night without getting killed. I seem to
recall you saying somwhere that you used to build battery-lights and sell them, so I guess you've
got a vested interest in dismissing non-battery generator lights. I might be wrong, but at the
moment I don't think I am. If I'm wrong, I'll just as publicly admit it and eat crow. (again).
You're welcome to sue me for every penny I've got. Both of them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But we're not in the middle of the road at such times, and we simply don't have the wherewithal to
pack that much voltage around with us.

Oh my g-d, Volta is turning over in his grave. It's energy that you're carrying around, and for
batteries the units are watt-hours.

Quoted message said:

A cyclist at night is not the same brazen individual as in the middle of the day. So, extra care
is taken. Nevertheless, those 36 lumens still go a long way.

Again, that's where we differ.

Quoted message said:

In my empirical foggy-night observations, those 0.6W tailights are somewhat better than blinkies.
Incandescent bulbs seem to burn thru fog better than LEDs.

It's hard to imagine anything worse than a blinkie, but fortunately you can now buy AA powered
Xenon strobes. You could probably even hook them to your generator somehow, with a rectifier and a
voltage regulator.

Car headlights pump-out a lot of illumination. That can be readily recycled & shot back at the
drivers. Cars can be a resource, and it doesn't have to cost cyclists much.

On a really foggy night, I find it hard to imagine anything powered with AA's to be sufficient. But
really foggy nights are a good time to stay in, and do snuggles w/ one's S.O. Throw on the strobes &
black lites to dance to, like what they're meant for.

I dunno why, but the violin strains of "The Merry Widow" suddenly popped into my head as I wrote the
above. Maybe it has something to do with transcribing about all those sunken Russian nuke-u-leer
subs in the Barents Sea making King Oscar sardines glow in the dark.

Hmmm ... maybe those could be a good light source.

Damn, now I've got Offenbach's Barcarole from "Tales of Hoffman" ... wait ... it's okay ... now
it's Orpheus in the Underworld. Where there's nowhere to plug-in a rechargable battery. Nice
kick-line, tho'.

cheers, & luv ya,
Tom

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[email hidden] (Fraggle) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I was thinking about buying a new headlight for my bike. jmk

Me too!

I've just taken the plunge and purchased a set of lumicycles (www.lumicycle.co.uk) got 10W flood /
12W spot plus the LED rear light (don't forget to order an extension lead for this) and they are
excellent. I use them on a urban to rural commute with some dual carriageway and they are definitely
worth the GBP220 plus that I spent. There is no competion against the Cateye HL1600 and LED combo
that I used last year.

They may seem expensive but this is without doubt the best money I have ever spent on bike
accessories. I can't really afford them but hey that's what credit cards are for ;-)

Buy some! (excellent customer service as well I explained that I missed the extension and they sent
it to me post free)

Al

Kevan Smith /\/\ said:

On 2 Sep 2003 21:42:03 -0700, [email hidden] (Frank Krygowski) from

url='http://groups.google.com/'http://groups.google.com//url said:

Seriously - why on earth do you place blinkies (i.e. flashing LED taillights) at the bottom of
your list?? Is it because you can only see them from 1/2 mile away?

You can see the new CatEye blinkie from a mile away.

Here it is on performancebike:

performancebike.comProfile.cfmOpen ↗

I got mine form my LBS.

I have one and it is like an very bright automotive 3rd brake light. Can't miss it. Online reviews
complain that the battery door is not waterproof. I will smear a bit of clear silicone over the
battery door and any seams before riding in rain. Button is easy to press, which means it can be
turned on in a bike bag and run down the batteries.

In article said:

I have one and it is like an very bright automotive 3rd brake light. Can't miss it. Online reviews
complain that the battery door is not waterproof. I will smear a bit of clear silicone over the
battery door and any seams before riding in rain. Button is easy to press, which means it can be
turned on in a bike bag and run down the batteries.

I stow my blinkie in a little liquid candle tin, with a lid, when I'm not using it. That keeps the
button from accidentally getting pushed.

A little Scotch Tape around the lens & back goes a long way to hold it together. And Scotch tape is
easily removable if the light needs to be gotten into.

Maybe I /should/ silicone the durn thing permanently into it's mount, and just leave it there
forever. Y'know, I think I seriously will do just that. Thanx for the idea!

cheers, Tom

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Steven Scharf said:

What I recommend these days is that people buy a dual headlamp system (i.e 20W + 5W) with an SLA
battery, then replace the SLA battery with NiMH. For $50 you can buy something that works but the
SLA batteries are just too inefficient, i.e.
"aebike.compage.cfmOpen ↗"

Exactly what I am proposing to do. I've got the Sigma Mirage lights you have linked to and am
looking at getting six 7500mA NiMH. This shoul up my capacity about double I suspect.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

[email hidden] (Frank Krygowski) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

MR-11 lamps are actually designed for showing off artwork in ritzy homes, not for lighting roads.
The light is only vaguely concentrated, and nowhere near the most-efficient rectangular beam that
all other headlights use.

You need to do some more research into the MR11 lamps. They come in a wide variety of beam patterns,
from wide angle flood to spot beams. They are as concentrated as you desire, or as spread as you
want. You must have seen an MR11 lamp in the wide flood beam pattern and extrapolated that all MR11
lamps provide the same pattern. BTW, if you read the bicycle lighting literature, there is a
definite bias toward wider beams as opposed to spot beams.

The best generator light is the 12 volt 6W oval Lumotec lamp made by Busch and Muller, made for use
with the Dymotec S12 dynamo. A lighting system with this dynamo, the headlight, and the tail light
would cost over $300. By virtue of the larger reflector, the Lumotec does make better use of the
available lumens, though by using an MR16 lamp it would be possible to just about equal the
efficiency of the Lumotec, at considerably less expense. Not everyone can afford the luxury of a
high end dynamo system.

Quoted message said:

It continues to amaze me that high-zoot cyclists, the type who drill holes in their spokes for
lightness ;-) are willing to haul extra battery weight around to make up for this waste, rather
than demanding simple lenses on their headlights!

You can't get much lighter or simpler than the MR11 and MR16 lamps with their high efficiency
reflectors.

Quoted message said:

Another interesting point! What other commercial bike product is so un-sophisticated that you can
buy the parts separately, cobble something together in your basement, and end up with something
cheaper and better than the mass-produced consumer item?

Good point. But "mass-produced" is relative, and the high performance bicycle light market is so
fragmented that I doubt if any of these companies could be considered to be in mass production.
OTOH, the parts needed to build a bicycle light are cheap because they are used for so many
non-bicycle applications. Some NiMH batteries and some lamps don't cost much.

Look at the cost of a high end generator light set (not the Union, but something like the Dymotec).

Quoted message said:

The manufacturers are buying batteries and bulbs by the thousands. They should be paying much less
per unit and passing on part of that savings to consumers.

The price of goods is set by the market, not by the cost of the raw materials or the production
cost. The charge what they charge because they can.

Quoted message said:

Even better, they should be using part of that savings to design a simple lens for the front of the
light! Cateye can design a sophisticated lens for a headlight that sells for $10. Why isn't it done
for a headlight that sells for $150?

The efficency of the reflector means that a simple lens cover is all that is necessary. However
there are several lense choices available for MR11 and MR16 lamps, including beam enlongating, and
spread, should their be a need..

"Frank Krygowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Seriously - why on earth do you place blinkies (i.e. flashing LED taillights) at the bottom of
your list?? Is it because you can only see them from 1/2 mile away??

1/2 mile?!

The LED blinkers are not nearly as visible as a Xenon strobe, especially in an area where there are
a lot of other light sources.

However I did locate one good LED blinker, and I added it to my site:

sheldonbrown.comrealliteOpen ↗

The only down side is that is four times as expensive as a Xenon strobe, and uses more than twice
the power.

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]/\/\> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2 Sep 2003 21:42:03 -0700, [email hidden] (Frank Krygowski) from

url='http://groups.google.com/'http://groups.google.com//url said:

Seriously - why on earth do you place blinkies (i.e. flashing LED taillights) at the bottom of
your list?? Is it because you can only see them from 1/2 mile away?

You can see the new CatEye blinkie from a mile away.

The Performance site says that it's 1-2 miles! What a joke, but they are probably parrotting the
CatEye sales literature. Who cares that on a perfectly clear, moonless night, away from all city
lights and car headlights, that it is visible for two miles?

There actually is a halfway decent LED blinker.

sheldonbrown.comrealliteOpen ↗

Eighteen LEDS. But realize that 18 LEDs at 20mA each will draw 360mA if on all the time, maybe 100mA
while blinking. It costs $40.

A xenon strobe draws 150mA max, and is far far brighter than even the best of the best LED blinkers.
Plus it costs $9 if you have a 12 volt system already. You can buy a Lightman Xenon strobe blinker
(AA cells) for $25.

southwestpublicsafety.comligbasbikstr.htmlOpen ↗

Even the old Belt Beacon was brighter than the LED blinkers and it was rock solid.

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]/\/\> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2 Sep 2003 21:42:03 -0700, [email hidden] (Frank Krygowski) from

url='http://groups.google.com/'http://groups.google.com//url said:

Seriously - why on earth do you place blinkies (i.e. flashing LED taillights) at the bottom of
your list?? Is it because you can only see them from 1/2 mile away?

You can see the new CatEye blinkie from a mile away.

The Performance site says that it's 1-2 miles! What a joke, but they are probably parrotting the
CatEye sales literature. Who cares that on a perfectly clear, moonless night, away from all city
lights and car headlights, that it is visible for two miles?

It matters not. There's no need to be seen from more than a block away in the city. And where car
speeds are higher, out in the country, I've definitely seen ordinary blinkies from at least half a
mile. That's plenty.

Quoted message said:

There actually is a halfway decent LED blinker.

sheldonbrown.comrealliteOpen ↗

Eighteen LEDS. But realize that 18 LEDs at 20mA each will draw 360mA if on all the time, maybe
100mA while blinking. It costs $40.

Your total current rating assumes the LEDs are all in parallel. Are you positive that's the case?

Quoted message said:

A xenon strobe draws 150mA max, and is far far brighter than even the best of the best LED
blinkers.

:-) And a searchlight is far brighter than a xenon strobe! But you
don't need that to ride at night.

Don't be so nervous! It's not that bad out there!

- Frank Krygowski